Lockheed Pitching F-22-F-35 Hybrid Fighter Intended For Japan

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Winston

Lorenzo von Matterhorn
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
9,560
Reaction score
1,748
Hopefully this happens and then we should buy some, too.

Lockheed Pitching U.S. Air Force On F-22-F-35 Hybrid Fighter Intended For Japan

There is an increasing possibility that the United States and Japan may join forces on the project, which could offer big benefits to both countries.
AUGUST 31, 2018

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...n-f-22-f-35-hybrid-fighter-intended-for-japan

Lockheed Martin is reportedly pitching the idea of a new fighter jet that would combine features from its F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to the U.S. Air Force. It is also continuing to offer a similar proposal to the Japanese government and is now reportedly willing to let companies in Japan handle a significant portion of the research and development and production of the aircraft.

Defense One’s Marcus Weisgerber got the scoop that the Maryland-headquartered defense giant was looking to sell the U.S. Air Force on the idea of hybrid design that blends elements of its two previous stealth fighter offerings. Earlier in August 2018, the Nikkei Asian Review had also revealed new details of Lockheed Martin’s ongoing discussions with Japan about a very similar-sounding aircraft, which Japanese officials hope could be ready for service by 2030.

“There’s a lot of potential in this idea [of a hybrid F-22-F-35],” David Deptula, a retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant General, present Dean of the Air Force Association’s Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies, and long-time F-35 cheerleader, told Defense One. “I’m not suggesting that we jump right into it and embrace it, but from the Japanese perspective when they are looking at and willing to invest in this kind of an alternative as opposed to trying to build an indigenous aircraft that’s not going to get close to what an F-22 can already deliver. It’s a smart move on their behalf.”

Lockheed Martin’s concept would reportedly marry the F-35’s core features, such as its advanced mission computer and extensive, inter-linked sensor suite, with an airframe design derived from that of the F-22. The company would also be able to incorporate lessons learned in stealth coatings and other complex manufacturing processes required for stealthy and other advanced aircraft that it has learned from the F-35 into the design and production of the new aircraft.

Not only could this positively impact production cost and overall capability, but it could also significantly lower the cost per flight hour when compared to the F-22. The Raptor's radar-absorbent skin is notoriously demanding on maintainers and negatively impacts the availability and cost of operating the jet. The F-35 introduced a new, lower maintenance concept that supposedly solves many of these issues.

The firm’s Skunk Works specialized design bureau has been doing pioneering work in both rapid prototyping and manufacturing science that could apply to the project. Between the F-22, F-35, and other advanced projects, the company has gained an extensive knowledge base to draw from to potentially help keep costs down and speed up the development process of a hybrid fighter jet. Totally new stealth fighter programs have become notoriously lengthy and expensive endeavors.

image
 
I think we could benefit from more F22s.
They apparently disposed of the tooling, possibly for security reasons. I read a study somewhere that analyzed the cost of starting production again and it was huge. I'd like to see a mid-range, mid-cost aircraft using the strong points of both the F-22 and F-35 with economic and brainpower help from the Japanese.
 
They apparently disposed of the tooling, possibly for security reasons. I read a study somewhere that analyzed the cost of starting production again and it was huge. I'd like to see a mid-range, mid-cost aircraft using the strong points of both the F-22 and F-35 with economic and brainpower help from the Japanese.
Don't know your source, but I have seen the tooling. It was kept and stored very nicely. Still, that huge, up front start up cost is valid and real. No way around it. Still not the jet we need to buy next.

Looks like that may happen with the F-15X.
The F-15X is buying another 4th Gen platform, period. The F-15X radar cross section will never compete with a 5th Gen jet, and is therefore fairly limited in what it can do. Have you looked up the cost of an F-15X? It's north of the F-35A. Makes little tactical sense.

Having intimately worked both the F-22A and the F-35A, I can tell you that buying a new F-22A isn't the best answer. The Low Observable system maintainability of the F-35 is over an order of magnitude easier that the Raptor, and far cheaper/quicker/easier to sustain. You cannot ignore LO on the F-35 and expect it to work years later, but it is so much better than the Raptor to maintain it's hard to convey the massive difference. And, perhaps most importantly, the effectivity of the Lightning II LO is fantastic--perhaps amazing given the stability over time. The Raptor is a jaw dropping plane, and does things no other platform can begin to consider, but costly to sustain. A 'best of breed' approach with some 5.5 Gen capabilities sprinkled in could be very interesting, if R&D can be kept to a minimum.

We have to solve the problem of developing these amazing capabilities that we cannot afford to keep, and that problem applies to the F-22, F-35 AND the F-15X (having worked the F-15C/D/E variants)! Don't know if a 5th Gen hybrid would be the answer or not, but I know most defense contractors and our military acquisition methodologies usually recreate the same outcomes that tax payers, Congress and the military is tired of (over cost and late). Without a big change to our AQ system and defense contractor culture, the pattern will keep repeating.
 
"Lockheed Pitching F-22-F-35 Hybrid Fighter Intended For Japan"

This is really confusing. The word "pitching" has multiple meanings, esp. w/ regards to airplanes! Why would Lockheed be sending airplanes to Japan that buck up and down? Is this why they're hybrids? Why Japan? It seems they would want a more sedate ride. I could see sending them to Texas first!
 
"Lockheed Pitching F-22-F-35 Hybrid Fighter Intended For Japan"

This is really confusing. The word "pitching" has multiple meanings, esp. w/ regards to airplanes! Why would Lockheed be sending airplanes to Japan that buck up and down? Is this why they're hybrids? Why Japan? It seems they would want a more sedate ride. I could see sending them to Texas first!

The Japanese are on the front lines with China. The Chinese are developing the J20 I believe it is, which represents a very possible mismatch.
 
I am certain that the new F15 would be a match for anything out of China.
 
I am certain that the new F15 would be a match for anything out of China.
If so then it is inadequate. I've never been one for superficial patriotism and cries of "We're the greatest!", but when it comes to air superiority the jingoists have it exactly right. Matching anything out of China is not up to the standards that we have long held and need to continue to hold. Our planes need to kick the ass of anything out of China, and kick it hard, not be a match for it.
 
I am certain that the new F15 would be a match for anything out of China.

Even though the Chinese, with their constant cyberwar on us, hacked a bunch of servers and got a lot of F35 data a few years back?
 
I am pretty sure they will not be able to produce a perfect copy. The F15 with upgrades with the F35 and F22 are more than adequate to strike at the Chinese. Plus, I don't think they really want war with us.
 
I am pretty sure they will not be able to produce a perfect copy. The F15 with upgrades with the F35 and F22 are more than adequate to strike at the Chinese. Plus, I don't think they really want war with us.

It does not need to be perfect to be dangerous. The last thing we want is to be surprised by the adversaries weapons. I am sure we have a fairly good idea how the J20 Is in terms of LO etc.
 
I am certain that the new F15 would be a match for anything out of China.

Nope. Not even close. Dangerous position to assert. Start reading up on double digit SAM systems from Russia and the Chinese derivatives. An F-15X front radar cross section would be no match to any 5th Gen platform.
 
Back
Top