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Joe Rocket 97

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Flightsketch.com has the LOC IV in stock and they're having a sale . Russ is a great guy to do business with
 

StreuB1

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Wildman Rocketry (the web store) offers a 'club'; a discount club. Membership is $30 a year, but you get some great deals & a certain % off everything site-wide. Especially today [Wednesday Nov 24th]: the pre-black Friday sale!! Only available to members. But his regular BF sale is this week-end. Many of us are a part of his "club", for the deals & discounts..

Our club takes advantage of this sale for our yearly motor needs. and we have our orders shipped to one location. So, we save: by being a member, by being a member on Black Friday, by combining all our orders into one shipment [reduced shipping charge] and one HAZMAT fee for everyone! (Well, one per box)

His membership pays for itself if you buy lots; motors, and if you plan to buy a big kit.. but likely won't amount to much on just a simple kit..

Thanks I figured that out when I poked around the website a little more


The Wildman Club membership of $30 pays for itself if you buy (1) J motor. Everything after that is gravy. If you buy something on the Black Wednesday members sale, that $30 is paid for even easier. Buy (1) WM Jr. kit and you save well over $30. Buy a 29/180 RMS motor and you get (2) H's for FREE. That's more than double the $30 investment right there.

I saved $600 on Wednesday alone. Not counting all the other purchases I have made this year.
 

StreuB1

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I am going to be also getting a Estes doorknob with the 38mm upgrade that gives better fins but then going to also have to use a 38mm to 29mm motor adaptor.

The Doorknob is an awesome kit. So many motor options for that rocket that allow you to tailor it so easily to your field or field conditions.
 

lstmysock11

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What kit can you possibly do that is decent contruction 3inch tube and use the possibly low power motors to be able to launch more with out costing a bloody fortune in rocket motors. 29mm motors for the doorknob are not too cheap and sure for the loc-iv just as expensive.
 

thzero

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Probably not many. It's all about weight and drag.

54mm or 2.63" rockets are going to be able to run on F, if they are light enough.
 

lstmysock11

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Best low power rocket kits, Maybe ones that come with something better then a plastic parachute.
 

dr wogz

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What kit can you possibly do that is decent contruction 3inch tube and use the possibly low power motors to be able to launch more with out costing a bloody fortune in rocket motors. 29mm motors for the doorknob are not too cheap and sure for the loc-iv just as expensive.
38mm motors aren't cheap either.

if you are getting into HPR / L1.. expect to start paying $$ for motors, especially the 'Disposable' [DMS] kinds. Invest in set of cases, and the adapter system for the case. That soon pays for itself if you consistently fly F, G, and a few H motors.. Aerotech 29/180 or 29/240 case & the RAS system.. (And a 29/40-120 case! :D )
 

lstmysock11

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38mm motors aren't cheap either.

if you are getting into HPR / L1.. expect to start paying $$ for motors, especially the 'Disposable' [DMS] kinds. Invest in set of cases, and the adapter system for the case. That soon pays for itself if you consistently fly F, G, and a few H motors.. Aerotech 29/180 or 29/240 case & the RAS system.. (And a 29/40-120 case! :D )
I see that now after looking up motor prices. What are some good low power kits. Hopefully something that either comes with something better then a plastic parachute or easy to replace. Yet fly on the cheapest motors, So can fly the high power and midpower very few times and fly the low power a lot more and keeping the cost down
 

thzero

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You can always replace some of the plastic parachutes with parachutes from like TopFlight.

I've got plenty of custom built estes BT20-B70 tube size rockets that fly on either streams (just some flagging tape at Home Depot works for me) or on like TopFlight parachutes (or other well built, low cost parachute providers) - these run on anything from Estes Bs to Es depending on the size and weight, size of the field and wind direction.

Really for low power you can't go wrong with many of the Estes kits.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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Motors are expensive! That’s for sure.

If you shop around, you can find Estes 24mm D motors for under $4 per motor and E motors for around $5 per motor. Check out AC supply. https://www.acsupplyco.com/ They have great discounts on all Estes products.

Rockets built for those motors can also fly on Quest 24mm D and E motors too, which are composite motors with more thrust, and those can often be found for around 50 cents to maybe a buck more per motor.

So that’s a little bit more per motor, but one thing to be aware of is that any Estes black powder E or F motor requires hazmat shipping, so that’s an added $37 fee to ship the order (per order, not per motor). Quest and Aerotech E and F motors generally do not require a hazmat fee, so that can save money on orders. Hazmat for single-use Aerotech motors starts in the G impulse class (unless possibly there are some big F motors that require it too, but I don’t think so).

Aerotech has some other types of single-use 24mm motors that have a different style of motor case and nozzle than the Quest motors, but they still fit in an Estes motor mount for D an E motors. E20 and E30 motors can be found around $10 per motor. And F44s can be found around $12-$13. Sometimes I get them here: https://www.buyrocketmotors.com/

Most of what you can fly on those kinds of 24mm D-F motors are lighter weight rockets with lightweight tubes, probably cardboard centering rings, and probably balsa fins. You might be able to use heavier materials, thicker tubes, and light plywood if you use the higher thrust motors like the E30 or F44. But mostly it’s going to be lighter stuff like balsa, which you can beef up a bit by laminating multiple layers of balsa or papering the fins.

The kinds of rockets you might look at for those motors are the Estes Big Daddy, or the Balsa Machining Service 3” School Rocket.

Mostly if you want to use heavier tubes in 2.5” to 3” diameter and plywood rings and fins, then you should be thinking in terms of composite F motors and 29mm motor mounts. In an earlier post, I mentioned the Aerotech single-use F motors, like F20, F23, F27, F42, F67, etc that come in a 2-pack. Those are often found around $13 per motor. No hazmat fee. To me, that’s a really fun size of rocket, and sort of a sweet spot for motor size. That’s affordable for me, and there is a lot of variety. And single-use makes it very simple. The rockets can be beefier and use mid-power materials and build techniques. I feel like those are the kinds of rockets you seem to be interested in. It’s going to cost around $13 per motor, maybe more.
 

Scott_650

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What kit can you possibly do that is decent contruction 3inch tube and use the possibly low power motors to be able to launch more with out costing a bloody fortune in rocket motors. 29mm motors for the doorknob are not too cheap and sure for the loc-iv just as expensive.
In one of these LOC IV discussion threads I referenced the Balsa Machining Service 3” School Rockets - the 29mm version with plywood fins works fine on adapted Estes BP 24mm E motors - they’re relatively inexpensive, rugged and easy to build.
 

dr wogz

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I see that now after looking up motor prices. What are some good low power kits. Hopefully something that either comes with something better then a plastic parachute or easy to replace. Yet fly on the cheapest motors, So can fly the high power and midpower very few times and fly the low power a lot more and keeping the cost down

Your question is really open to interpretation..

The immediate answer is: Estes, Quest, Fliskits, etc.. all have LPR kits, that suit a variety of tastes, styles, abilities, etc.. they are designed to fly without a Ph.D in aeronautics & some "less than stellar building skills".. Get what you like, fly what you like, work on your skills: building, shaping, sanding, painting, finishing, decal setting, etc.. all the way up to .. LCO/RSO.. Some kits are easy to build (Estes E2X) and some are 'builder's kits' (TLP - The Launch Pad kits for example, where you need to cut & shape the fins & paper shrouds & such..)

I think I may speak for the majority of us long-haul rocketeers, but we have many many rockets in our fleet. We started with a few, then just add to it over the years. My current flyable fleet is about 75, with about a dozen or two "in repair" or just retired. I have a build pile / collection of about another 30 or 40. I have everything from a badminton birdie & 'free' paper rockets to a few fiberglass 4" ones, with full dual deploy & redundancy.. I also have a box of parts, so I can scratch build whenever the desire hits! And I have about a motor dozen cases. All from years of collecting..

You can advance as fast or as slow as your brain, fingers, or pocket book allows. While I may have a huge fleet, I only bring about a half dozen or so to the field on launch day. One or two get to fly once a year. One or two others are on the launch rail every month.. Some guys at the field only have a dozen or so. And some only bring one or two to fly, and they may only fly once or twice..

You will soon learn, they are all basically the same. slight variances in, say, materials, fin attachment techniques, shock cord attachment, etc.. With experience comes the ability to know what can be changed, and what can't.
 
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I have messaged two diffrent clubs here in Virginia. One barley responded and the other club I am planing to go to their next launch on Dec 11. That would be Northern Virginia but the other club listed in King george when I asked about joining, Well several days later yet to hear back.
Have you tried phoning someone from the club. Email goes into spam and people go on holiday. Sometimes at a club it’s just one club member answering the contact requests.
 

91Wreck

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I got L1 certified today with a LOC-IV. I used epoxy on everything (I know it was overkill). I used the Z clip for motor retention. I flew the Aerotech H219 (which is a disposable motor). It came with a thrust ring that worked perfectly (but Aerotech has stated that the thrust rings are prone to fail). If the motor you have does not have a thrust ring, just use masking tape to build up a surface that will not allow the motor to advance into your motor tube.

Word of warning - LOC has updated the LOC-IV and the assembly instructions do not match the components you get, so you have to decided how you want to set it up. Instead of one long tube, you have two tubes that are joined by a coupler. You have the option of setting it up for dual or single deployment. I went with the latter option to make it easier on me. You also need to watch some videos on how to properly install the rail buttons because the instructions tell you how to install a launch lug (which has been replaced by rail buttons).

Good luck!
 

kswing

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I've launched rockets in Virginia with both NOVAAR (www.novaar.org), who launch at Great Meadow, and with Tripoli Central Virginia #25 (www.battlepark.org) who launch near Culpeper. Both are good clubs with plenty of folks who will provide good advice and assistance. As someone else pointed out, e-mail often gets sent to spam by mistake or lost in transit, so, I would suggest going out to a launch to talk with folks. NOVAAR's next launch is scheduled for December 11th and the next launch at BattlePark is scheduled for the 11th and 12th. Weather permitting, I'll probably be at BattlePark on the 12th launching my high power two stage rocket.
 

lstmysock11

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I've launched rockets in Virginia with both NOVAAR (www.novaar.org), who launch at Great Meadow, and with Tripoli Central Virginia #25 (www.battlepark.org) who launch near Culpeper. Both are good clubs with plenty of folks who will provide good advice and assistance. As someone else pointed out, e-mail often gets sent to spam by mistake or lost in transit, so, I would suggest going out to a launch to talk with folks. NOVAAR's next launch is scheduled for December 11th and the next launch at BattlePark is scheduled for the 11th and 12th. Weather permitting, I'll probably be at BattlePark on the 12th launching my high power two stage rocket.
I am planing on going to battlepark on the 12th. Have been waiting to hear back from Elaine from that group, not sure if the listing they have on there page about membership fee's with a paypal link is how to join them. I do not see anything about giving them information for joining just for sending money. Do they use rail buttons for all the rocket launches even Midpower and low power rockets?

Andrew
 

dr wogz

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I am planing on going to battlepark on the 12th. Have been waiting to hear back from Elaine from that group, not sure if the listing they have on there page about membership fee's with a paypal link is how to join them. I do not see anything about giving them information for joining just for sending money. Do they use rail buttons for all the rocket launches even Midpower and low power rockets?

Andrew

Most clubs welcome "walk ins". That is, show up, and give them a check or cash, and they usually have a form to fill out. They want to your NAR / TRA No more than anything else! (This is mandatory.. don't expect to fly without it*) Also, most clubs will allow you to fly for the day without initially joining, but you will likely have to pay a "launch fee" (standard practice) This way, you can get a feel for the club & the people. And you can talk to the president / secretary / grand poobah in person.. If you are under 18, ask mom or dad to stick around until you've sorted out membership..

Most clubs these days expect rail buttons (1010) for G and up motors. LPR is still pretty much 1/8" & 3/16" launch rods. Although some will have / trending towards 'mini buttons' & 'mini rail' for LPR. Some of us have rockets with buttons on one side & 1/4" lugs on the other; 'ambidextrous' rockets!

A rule of thumb: if it's a 29mm motor mount or larger: use buttons!


* some clubs will allow LPR for kids & such without NAR/TRA.. but usually as a one-time thing...


Andrew, I wrote this a few years ago. it may be helpful

 
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kswing

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I am planing on going to battlepark on the 12th. Have been waiting to hear back from Elaine from that group, not sure if the listing they have on there page about membership fee's with a paypal link is how to join them. I do not see anything about giving them information for joining just for sending money. Do they use rail buttons for all the rocket launches even Midpower and low power rockets?

Andrew

Paul provided some good information above that mostly applies to BattlePark. There are two links on the BattlePark web site that you should use if you are planning to attend and launch. One is to register that you are going to attend and another is a link to PayPal to pay your dues and thus join the club. The registration link will give them most of the information they need. I think they would let you visit and launch low/mid power without paying dues, but, you should confirm with them. They use rails (1010 and 1515) for high power and they have both launch rods (of various sizes) and rails for low/mid power. I'll send a message over to one of the board members to see if they can provide more information.
 

lstmysock11

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Paul provided some good information above that mostly applies to BattlePark. There are two links on the BattlePark web site that you should use if you are planning to attend and launch. One is to register that you are going to attend and another is a link to PayPal to pay your dues and thus join the club. The registration link will give them most of the information they need. I think they would let you visit and launch low/mid power without paying dues, but, you should confirm with them. They use rails (1010 and 1515) for high power and they have both launch rods (of various sizes) and rails for low/mid power. I'll send a message over to one of the board members to see if they can provide more information.
Okay Thank you very much

I just joined before paying the dues. I have nothing to fly right now but would like to go and watch and learn. Going to build a couple low power rockets soonish and needed to know what kind of launch lugs to fit on them. Might even get one of the mach 1 BT60 rockets but will have to look through and see what is not min dia rocket and what is. Would like to have some that need to have a motor mount build but also wont break the bank with motor costs. Then to figure out what expoxy for them.

Andrew
 

dr wogz

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Andrew, pick up a few Estes kits and build them [A-B-C motor rockets..]. This will {initially} teach you a lot. They will have everything you need to fly, except motors & wadding. Build it / them stock. Buy a few packs of the recommended motors listed on the face-card. Keep it all as per the packaged parts & instructions. Fly them a bunch of times, to see what & how things work. Then move up, then start modifying, then start thinking L1..

The more I read your posts, the more I feel you've never done this before. baby steps. start simple Padawan..

The Estes Patriot is a great starter kit.
 

neil_w

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Might even get one of the mach 1 BT60 rockets but will have to look through and see what is not min dia rocket and what is. Would like to have some that need to have a motor mount build but also wont break the bank with motor costs. Then to figure out what expoxy for them.
In general, a pretty large majority of rockets have motor mounts. Minimum diameter (MD) rockets are a subcategory of rockets that have some special considerations, which is why they are not the norm:
1) They tend to be high-performance, because the motor is as large as it can be in relation to the size of the rocket
2) You can't use through-the wall fin construction, which is generally strongest, but due to the high-performance nature of the rockets you need to be careful to make the surface-mount fin attachments as strong as possible. This probably doesn't apply so much for something like a BT20 MD rocket.
3) MD rockets tend to fly high and fast relative to their size, which makes them harder to visually track in the sky. Trackers are often required. This also is probably not as much of a consideration on a fiberglass BT20 rocket (as someone mentioned above or elsewhere, you could just use a streamer in such a rocket to improve odds of recovery.)
4) Motor retention is a bit trickier

Fiberglass is strong but heavy. Most of the Mach1 BT60 kits have 29mm mounts and are recommended for G-I motors. These are *not* the inexpensive motors you seem to be looking for. If you want to fly most economically, wood/paper kits such as from Estes, Semroc, etc. are your best bet. There are tons of BT60 kits that'll fly well on A/B/C/D/E motors. This is not to say that fiberglass in general or Mach1 in particularly aren't great, but it's not clear to me that they're what you're looking for right now, at least in that size.
 

lstmysock11

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Andrew, pick up a few Estes kits and build them [A-B-C motor rockets..]. This will {initially} teach you a lot. They will have everything you need to fly, except motors & wadding. Build it / them stock. Buy a few packs of the recommended motors listed on the face-card. Keep it all as per the packaged parts & instructions. Fly them a bunch of times, to see what & how things work. Then move up, then start modifying, then start thinking L1..

The more I read your posts, the more I feel you've never done this before. baby steps. start simple Padawan..

The Estes Patriot is a great starter kit.
Thank you, FYI I have done a number of Estes kits in the past, It has been a few years. Just never got involved with any organized group with model rocketry before. Basically build the rockets and fly them myself or with a few friends and all low power ones. Most of the time managed to get them back but had a few that got lost in the tree's.
 

kswing

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I'd suggest looking at some of the LOC Precision 2.2" or 2.6" kits. They are a step up from basic Estes kits in materials and construction, but, some of them are still light enough to fly E and F motors. Also, keep in mind that sometimes having a rocket with a slightly larger diameter may help to keep the rocket low enough so you can launch it at smaller fields. You can quickly compare potential results via www.thrustcurve.org (Match a Rocket).
 
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I am planing on going to battlepark on the 12th. Have been waiting to hear back from Elaine from that group, not sure if the listing they have on there page about membership fee's with a paypal link is how to join them. I do not see anything about giving them information for joining just for sending money. Do they use rail buttons for all the rocket launches even Midpower and low power rockets?

Andrew

All high power rockets at BattlePark must use rails, either 1010, 1515, or unistrut. We also supply several 1010 rails for Low power fights.
On the webpage under the UPDATED 2021-22 Launch Season there are links to pre-register, a paypal link to pay the dues, and a link to flight cards you can fill out and print to bring along.

You are correct, Tripoli Central Virginia #25 is not listed on the NAR site. We are Tripoli prefecture only. There are plenty of NAR member that can provide NAR L1, L2, and even L3 certification flights.

I see you bought an Estes Doorknob rocket. You can certainly try a L1 certification with the rocket, but I would highly recommend against it. That is a mid powered rocket, not a high power rocket. It is designed to fly on D, E, & F motors. If you put a BABY H motor in that you will exceed 2000 ft and may reach 3000 ft. Your chance of ever seeing it again is greatly reduced.

For L1 flights on the east coast, I recommend a rocket with 38mm MMT, 3" - 4" diameter, and 4 - 6 lbs. for a L1 cert. That will stay low and slow with a baby H motor, but allow you to fly the full range of H & I motors after your cert and not "out-fly" the field.

Look me up when you come out on the 12th. I'm the guy with the Steampunk top hat.

Jeff Boldig TCVA25 Prefect
 

lstmysock11

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All high power rockets at BattlePark must use rails, either 1010, 1515, or unistrut. We also supply several 1010 rails for Low power fights.
On the webpage under the UPDATED 2021-22 Launch Season there are links to pre-register, a paypal link to pay the dues, and a link to flight cards you can fill out and print to bring along.

You are correct, Tripoli Central Virginia #25 is not listed on the NAR site. We are Tripoli prefecture only. There are plenty of NAR member that can provide NAR L1, L2, and even L3 certification flights.

I see you bought an Estes Doorknob rocket. You can certainly try a L1 certification with the rocket, but I would highly recommend against it. That is a mid powered rocket, not a high power rocket. It is designed to fly on D, E, & F motors. If you put a BABY H motor in that you will exceed 2000 ft and may reach 3000 ft. Your chance of ever seeing it again is greatly reduced.

For L1 flights on the east coast, I recommend a rocket with 38mm MMT, 3" - 4" diameter, and 4 - 6 lbs. for a L1 cert. That will stay low and slow with a baby H motor, but allow you to fly the full range of H & I motors after your cert and not "out-fly" the field.

Look me up when you come out on the 12th. I'm the guy with the Steampunk top hat.

Jeff Boldig TCVA25 Prefect
Hi Jeff

I have yet to buy the Estes doorknob and when I do I was planing on using the adaptor and running 24mm motors in it, So not so hot on motors. So it will not fly nearly that high I am guessing. Yes I know the doorknob is not high power and do want some that are not high power. Also want a bunch of low power as well. I was told that the low power also mostly uses launch lugs.

Still looking at getting the micro mamba from Mach 1 as it can fly on even B motors.

I paid my member dues and all and registered. So maybe I could build something low power before the launch I could get some flights in. We shall see.

Andrew
 
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Hi Jeff

I have yet to buy the Estes doorknob and when I do I was planing on using the adaptor and running 24mm motors in it, So not so hot on motors. So it will not fly nearly that high I am guessing. Yes I know the doorknob is not high power and do want some that are not high power. Also want a bunch of low power as well. I was told that the low power also mostly uses launch lugs.

Still looking at getting the micro mamba from Mach 1 as it can fly on even B motors.

I paid my member dues and all and registered. So maybe I could build something low power before the launch I could get some flights in. We shall see.

Andrew

Sounds like fun. Hope you can get something in the air. We have 1/8", 3/16", and a 1/4" rod for use with launch lugs on the low power side. There are also two 1010 rails available on the Low power. I'm not sure rails are required, but most TARC teams fly from the rails now. I think we average about half of the flights at any launch are off the low power pads.
 

lstmysock11

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Sounds like fun. Hope you can get something in the air. We have 1/8", 3/16", and a 1/4" rod for use with launch lugs on the low power side. There are also two 1010 rails available on the Low power. I'm not sure rails are required, but most TARC teams fly from the rails now. I think we average about half of the flights at any launch are off the low power pads.
Okay cool, I know the Micro mamba comes with Micro rail buttons and launch lugs. Not sure what the micro rail buttons what they would fit into.
 

kswing

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Okay cool, I know the Micro mamba comes with Micro rail buttons and launch lugs. Not sure what the micro rail buttons what they would fit into.

If you get that I'd suggest using the 3/16 launch lug that they also include. The micro rail buttons look to be a smaller size than the standard 1010 buttons, so, they probably won't work on the standard rails. I'm pretty sure BattlePark doesn't have micro sized rails and I don't recall seeing them at NOVAAR, but, I wasn't looking that closely so they may have them. Also, most launches will let you bring and use your own launch pad as long as you connect into their controller.
 
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