LOC BBX

[jqavins]

This post and picture reminded me that I've been meaning to bring this up for a while:

Black Brant X and Kraken...
View attachment 505424

Here's the LOC BBX:

But the BB X is a BB V with a Terrier booster under it and a Nihka third stage on top. Here's a picture from Wikiversity. (The Nihka is gyro stabilized for ex-atmospheric operation, so no fins, so it is not obvious in the picture; it's the difference between the BB IX and the BB X.)

So what's up with LOC? It seems that theirs is just not a BB X. It's maybe closer to a BB IV, but not right for that either.

 

[heada]

Depends on the size of the kit. For the 2.23" based kits, they sell a 3" Terrier booster as well.

Most vendors I've seen sell a BBX consider the BBX only the upper 2 stages. The Terrier booster is always handled separately.

 

[jqavins]

That's very, very odd. The upper stages only consist of a BB V and a Nihka, which externally is just a slightly stretched BB V. What you say would be like selling an Orion sounding rocket (kit) and calling it a Terrier-Orion. T'ain't right!

 

[DigBaddy]

Most vendors I've seen sell a BBX consider the BBX only the upper 2 stages. The Terrier booster is always handled separately.

The vendor "version" is what I was going off of. I know it's kind of a mess and not very technically/historically accurate. Flies nice though

I can recommend scratching one out of BT60 tube and a 24mm mount. Keep it light. Sims nice on C11s to F39s. Lots of good motors in there to enjoy for cheap.

 

[jqavins]

That's very, very odd. The upper stages only consist of a BB V and a Nihka, which externally is just a slightly stretched BB V. What you say would be like selling an Orion sounding rocket (kit) and calling it a Terrier-Orion. T'ain't right!

AND, those little canards amidships are wrong if it's supposed to be the BBV-Nihka.

The vendor "version" is what I was going off of. I know it's kind of a mess and not very technically/historically accurate. Flies nice though

I can recommend scratching one out of BT60 tube and a 24mm mount. Keep it light. Sims nice on C11s to F39s. Lots of good motors in there to enjoy for cheap.

No criticism of you or your rocket was intended.

I can recommend scratching one out of BT60 tube and a 24mm mount. Keep it light. Sims nice on C11s to F32s. Lots of good motors in there to enjoy for cheap.

I have a pipe dream of making a large set of mix-n-match sounding rockets and boosters, including the BB family and more. @Charles_McG has a similar, and growing, set. Because there is such a range of sizes in the fleet, the BB I and BB II would be LP and most of the rest ranging from MP to HP.

 

[heada]

I don't know of any kit or scratch that treats the upper 2 stages as individual stages either. It's treats as a single vehicle.

To be true to the actual rocket, you need 3 stages. To be practical like most kits, 2 stages.

 

[DigBaddy]

I like the idea of mix-n-match stuff....that could make for quite a pile of setups.

 

[hball55]

Get over it, lol.

 

[jqavins]

I don't know of any kit or scratch that treats the upper 2 stages as individual stages either. It's treats as a single vehicle.

To be true to the actual rocket, you need 3 stages. To be practical like most kits, 2 stages.

Oh, of course, the BBV-Nihka has to be treated as a single vehicle, for all practical purposes. The full-up BB X could be two stage (nice!) or single stage (perfectly fine). What LOC is selling doesn't look like any member of the BB family.

 

[heada]

Oh, of course, the BBV-Nihka has to be treated as a single vehicle, for all practical purposes. The full-up BB X could be two stage (nice!) or single stage (perfectly fine). What LOC is selling doesn't look like any member of the BB family.

It most certainly does!

RotW, pages 350 and 351. The full drawing on page 351 shows the BBX (full stack) and the upper 2 stages matches what LOC, PML and all other vendors I've seen sell a BBX.

https://sites.wff.nasa.gov/code810/vehicles.html
NASA vehicle 35 (small image)

https://sites.wff.nasa.gov/code810/vehicles/Black_Brant_X.pdf
It's hard to see them but the very small fins for the Nihka are there.

edit: check my avatar, it's a full stack BBX! an AT I300T in the Terrier staged to an AT H180 in the BBV-Nihka

 

[jqavins]

I don't have RotW, and the other pictures are far too blurry to see the tiny fins, but I'll take your word for it. None the less, BBV-Nihka is not a member of the BB family. It's the upper two stages of a BBX, but without the Terrier it is a non-flight configuration (and does not have a name). So I stand corrected on the tiny fins, but you still can't model a BBV-Nihka and call it a BBX, any more than you can call this a tractor-trailer.

 

[heada]

Even the BB-V in the BB-X is a modified version of the BB-V. The BB-V has 3 fins but the version in the BB-X has 4. And the Nihka is also a modified BB-V to have different fins (4 and much smaller with a different profile) but also a different propellant. Over-all the BB-X kinda stands out in the BB family as an odd-ball but I kinda like it. I have a 1.6", 2.23", 3", 5.5" version.

Take a BB-V, add a Nike booster and you get a BB-VII. Modify the fins on the BB-V, add the Terrier booster and a modified BB-V as the Nihka on top of the BB-V and you get a BB-X.

A true BB-X is the full 3 stage stack, I agree. LOC does have the option for the full stack in the 2.23"/3" configuration. PML (now LOC) also sold the full stack but they dropped the booster a few years ago. My avatar is the PML full stack.

 

[jqavins]

And, stick a Talos under the BB X and you have a BB XII, four stages that one would surely model as only three (i.e. a stretched BB XI). What about modeling the BB X or BB XII with the Nihka separating, but only as part of recovery? Then you don't have to worry about the fact that it's not stable, but the stack comes down in the right number of pieces (with a tracker in each one, for mercy's sake).

All this is why I like the family. My pipe dream includes all this plus Orion, Oriole, and Malamute sustainers, and more. Various stacks can be made by creating the necessary interstages. One could even fly configurations that never flew in the real things. (If I try to name one, like Talos-Nike for instance, someone will probably tell me yes it has flown.)

 

[Donnager]

nm