Limits For Non-Waivered Launches

[bguffer]

With the court finding against BATFE, what are the limits for non FAA waivered flights?

My understanding is:
1) Rockets (with motor and payload) must be 3.3 pounds or less.
2) Propellant in rocket must be 125 grams or less.

Is my above understanding correct? Are there any other limitations for non FAA waivered flights?

I know the court decision has no bearing on waivered flights, but the court decision has me interested in buying some motors with more than 62.5 grams, but still flyable without a waiver from the FAA.

 

[MarkM]

Flying a rocket with a motor weighing more than 62.5g is classified as a HPR motor/rocket - A level 2 rocket by the new FAA classification - and one must file a waiver for launching a such a rocket.

You do realize that motors weighing more than the 62.5g require a NAR or TRA Level 1 certification - even if it's a G motor - to purchase and fly, right?

 

[bobkrech]

With the court finding against BATFE, what are the limits for non FAA waivered flights?

My understanding is:
1) Rockets (with motor and payload) must be 3.3 pounds or less.
2) Propellant in rocket must be 125 grams or less.

Is my above understanding correct? Are there any other limitations for non FAA waivered flights?

I know the court decision has no bearing on waivered flights, but the court decision has me interested in buying some motors with more than 62.5 grams, but still flyable without a waiver from the FAA.

What you stated is the old FAA definition of a large model rocket, and the new FAA definition of a model rocket. You did not need a waiver for a large model rocket flight, however you needed to notify the FAA prior to your flight.

Under the old LMR rule, the FAA allowed one to launch small high power H-motors with not more than 125 grams of propellant without a waiver. Under NAR and TRA rules, however you need L1 high power certification to do so.

Under the new FAA rules, there is there is no distinction between a model rocket and a large model rocket, they are model rockets and therefore do not require a waiver or notification to fly. The NAR/TRA rules are still in force and require the flyer to be high power certified to fly and H-impulse motor.

Bob

 

[GuyNoir]

https://www.nar.org/cabinet/waiverinst.html

 

[bguffer]

What you stated is the old FAA definition of a large model rocket, and the new FAA definition of a model rocket. You did not need a waiver for a large model rocket flight, however you needed to notify the FAA prior to your flight.

Under the old LMR rule, the FAA allowed one to launch small high power H-motors with not more than 125 grams of propellant without a waiver. Under NAR and TRA rules, however you need L1 high power certification to do so.

Under the new FAA rules, there is there is no distinction between a model rocket and a large model rocket, they are model rockets and therefore do not require a waiver or notification to fly. The NAR/TRA rules are still in force and require the flyer to be high power certified to fly and H-impulse motor.

Bob

I am certed level 1. Forgot to mention that.

 

[bguffer]

https://www.nar.org/cabinet/waiverinst.html

Thanks for the link. That clarified my understanding on the weights.

 

[KDRaven]

A rocket weighing more than 3.3lbs with motor or has more than 125 grams of propellent up to a "O" impulse is a class 2 rocket now and needs to have a notification with the FAA. Now if you launch it within 5 miles of an airport boundry you will need a waiver. This I have found out becaues we have 2 launch sites that are capable of having class 2 rockets fly from them and one is on an airport and the other is within 3 miles of the same airport.

 

[shreadvector]

https://www.nar.org/cabinet/waiverinst.html

Or you can point to this:

https://www.doug79.com/stuff/HPR_metric9c.pdf

 

[bobkrech]

A rocket weighing more than 3.3lbs with motor or has more than 125 grams of propellent up to a "O" impulse is a class 2 rocket now and needs to have a notification with the FAA. Now if you launch it within 5 miles of an airport boundry you will need a waiver. This I have found out becaues we have 2 launch sites that are capable of having class 2 rockets fly from them and one is on an airport and the other is within 3 miles of the same airport.

No, you always needed, and still need, a waiver, which is the FAA's permission, to launch what we used to call high power rockets and what are now called Class 2 high power rockets in FAA lingo.

The new form is different than the old form and requires additional information but the process is similar.

As Guy Noir posted, the rules and directions on how to fill out a waiver request can be found here https://www.nar.org/cabinet/waiverinst.html

Bob

 

[KDRaven]

If I gave out some wrong information I do appoligize. All I know is that for the fact that I have to apply for and get a waiver to fly a class 2 rocket because of where my clubs launch areas are at. and they are within 5 miles of an airport. Getting a waiver is not as bad as one thinks it is.

 

[UhClem]

No, you always needed, and still need, a waiver, which is the FAA's permission, to launch what we used to call high power rockets and what are now called Class 2 high power rockets in FAA lingo.

A minor nit: Under the new rules you are applying for authorization and not a waiver. The rules prohibit flying into controlled airspace, within 5 miles of an airport, or at night without prior authorization.

The previous rules had the same prohibitions but without the prior authorization language. Thus you had to ask the FAA to waive those rules.

 

[KDRaven]

On the FAA's form for application for certificate of waiver or authorization line 6 asks for which Far section and number to be waived.

View attachment faa7711-2 2009.pdf

 

[UhClem]

On the FAA's form for application for certificate of waiver or authorization line 6 asks for which Far section and number to be waived.

So what rule do you want waived?

 

[KDRaven]

the one I already have a waiver for 101.25(b),(5)

§ 101.25 Operating limitations for Class 2 - High-Power Rockets.
(a) You must comply with the General Operating Limitations of § 101.23.
(b) In addition, you must not operate a Class 2 - High-Power Rocket—
(1) At any altitude where clouds or obscuring phenomena of more than five-tenths
coverage prevails;
(2) At any altitude where the horizontal visibility is less than five miles;
(3) Into any cloud;
(4) Between sunset and sunrise without prior authorization from the FAA;
(5) Within 8 kilometers (5 statute miles) of any airport boundary without prior
authorization from the FAA;

 

[UhClem]

the one I already have a waiver for 101.25(b),(5)

So you have a waiver from the requirement to get authorization from the FAA before flying near an airport?

 

[KDRaven]

Yes I do have a waiver to fly class 2 rockets at the airport that we fly from and also our alternate location which is within 3 miles of said airport. My postings wernt asking how to get one but I was trying to help with some information about the fact of what some of the information that was needed to be able to fly class 2 rockets.
I hope I did not confuse too many with my postings.