Level 3 in the future

[Lee Thompson]

I got my level 1 this summer, as I look forward the future I see my self working towards level 3, but have a few questions. first I like the idea of going with out ejection charges, since black powder is so scarce. Dual deployment using dual chute releases seems simple enough. But..
What about redundancy in the ejection? Do level 3 attempts require redundancy in the ejection or just in the chute release?
If so how can I have redundancy with out using black powder?
Thanks for now
Lee

 

[Banzai88]

Black powder will come back in stock after the first of the new year, just like it does each and every year after hunting season. By the time you need some for an L3 flight (or a pending L2 flight, for that matter), everyone will have it in any quantity you choose to purchase it in.

 

[RocketflierVB]

There is CO2 ejection systems out there also.

Rocketry CO2 Ejection | tinder-rocketry (tinderrocketry.com)
Recovery — Mudd Advanced Rocketry Club (hmc.edu)
CO2 Ballistic Parachute Deployment Systems | Fruity Chutes!

Just a few from a quick search on Google

 

[David_Stack]

Good Morning Lee;

Not certain that use of chute releases (assume you are referring to something akin to the Jolly Logic Chute Release) meets the 'letter of the law' for Level 3 certification. From the Tripoli web site L3 certification page:

"Electronics – Prior to a level 3 certification flight, the flyer shall successfully fly at least one rocket in the level 2 range using an electronic device as the primary means of recovery system deployment. Level 3 certification flights shall include at least two completely separate electronic devices, with independent power sources, wire harnesses, and ignition devices for the primary and back-up means of recovery system deployment."

NAR certification criteria are similar in nature: (note the last sentence in the below)

"Each parachute event must be initiated by redundant control systems. Redundancy must be present in the power sources, safe and arm provisions, control logic, and output devices (e.g. bridgewires, electric matches). Redundancy is not required in the energetic materials (e.g. black powder charges), parachutes, attach points, risers, and disconnects. Motor ejection charges may be used as a redundant system, but rockets depending primarily on motor ejection for any recovery event are specifically disallowed."

As Tom (Banzai88) said, black powder will likely always remain available, though perhaps not as readily as was once the case. Too many users apart from model rocketry to have it simply go away...

 

[cbrarick]

Chute releases are a no-go for NAR L3 cert.

 

[dvdsnyd]

Chute releases are a no-go for NAR L3 cert.

Chute Releases are absolutely a viable option for Level 3. They can be configured for redundant main deployment just like a cable cutter can.
Thread - Who used chute release for L1,L2,L3

One would still need a redundant system to split the rocket for a drogue.

 

[mtnmanak]

This is a great place to ask such a question, but it is also the main reason NAR and Tripoli set up the L3CC/TAP programs. Your Level 3 journey is a joint effort between you and your cert team. As you develop the skills and experience in Level 1 & 2, it is not a hinderance to have the requirement of your L3CC/TAP advisors assist you in the pre-approval, build and launch phases of your L3 adventure. These are the exact questions you would ask them when you make your initial proposal. Their job is to interpret the rules and guide you to a successful outcome. I have been building/launching rockets for about 45 years and the L3CC/TAP members I have met are all awesome.

 

[Troy3003]

I would agree that a chute release can be used as part of your L3 design, but I believe the redundancy requirement is aimed more towards the separation events. Like said in the post above talk to the TAP/L3CC to clarify.

 

[Bat-mite]

As others have said, Chute Release does not create a deployment event. L3 motors do not use motor ejection. You need some way to get your rocket apart, and that is either BP or CO2.

 

[cbrarick]

This was discussed this summer on among the L3CC's
You would have a very, very, very hard time getting approval for any L3 Cert project using JLCR's.
First of all, there are no M, N or O's with motor ejection, so some energetic device would have to be used to deploy the drogue / whatever your apogee even would be (and separation of the rocket). These would be controlled by a altimeter using either BP, CO2 or whatever else you can prove to your L3CC would allow for separation.
The discussion from there would go to redundant devices.........

Don't forget that the L3CC member must approve the project. No matter how much you may believe otherwise, arguing with your L3CC won't get you a cert.

Of course, it's your option to argue.

 

[David Schwantz]

Lee, where do you live? If near can probably get you some BP for you to use.