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Level 1 - Whats a good rocket to use?

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scottluther1369

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Whats a good kit to use for Level 1 certification? Also most of the stuff I'm using are Estes kits which are already assembled engines. At what point can I start using reusable engines?

Also, I live in Livingston MT where there really are not any clubs that I have found as of yet. Anyone in my area want to take a newbie under their wing????
Thanks!
--Scott
 

n3tjm

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Aerotech Sumo is a great L1 bird. Easy to build, and flies great. Get yourself an RMS 29/180 motor. You can fly it on G75's, and when you are ready, go for a H128... which is my favorite motor of all time for many reasons :D.

You can also fly a Sumo with a RMS 29/40-120 motor with G64-4W loads, and that case is surpurb for any mid power kits you may get before you get your L1. I recommand you get some mid power experience before L1 :-D.
 

Donaldsrockets

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I got my level 1 cert with my BSD Sprint on an H128. I don't think I could have made a better choice. It has also flown succesfully on H180W, H210R and just recently an H220T for a real neck snappin' flight.:D

I even flew it on G64 and G80 motors before I got my cert and it flew great. I would VERY highly reccommend this kit for L1 cert attempts.:D

I also have and would reccommend:

PML Explorer/H128 (Smoked off the pad):D
PML Matrix/H123W or H242T (Great flights):D
PML Small Endeavour/H165R (Beautiful red flame):D

But like Doug said, I would highly reccommend getting some MPR experience with F and G motors before moving up to HPR.

Good luck.:)
 

scottluther1369

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Yes, I have a long way to go and a lot to learn before getting a Level 1. Can someone point me to some good reading or FAQ on the subject of reusable motors (what all the numbers mean, assembly, etc). I saw one book but it was printed in England and I didnt know if it applies here.
Thanks for all the great advice!

I cross posted in the low power section asking if I can use reusable motors on B/C/D motors and if so do I need to modify the engine mount or rocket as well as what kind of motor to buy. Do they just plug in like the Estes motors or do they use a special mount.
Thanks again for putting up with a newbie. I live in Livingston Mt and can't find any clubs or others in my area who are into rocketry. I also need to find a good launch site. Right now I'm launching in my backyard (way out of town, private property, no one around except LOTS OF TREES AND A RIVER!!!: ) )
Thanks again!
--Scott
P.S. I'm having so much fun getting back into Rocketry!!!! It's been 35 years since I launched last!
 

Hospital_Rocket

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My choice was a PML MiniBBX on an Ellis SU H50.

Was originally going to do a Sumo on an H165R, but wanted to to see some altitude.

Nice thing about the BBX is if you build it stock, you can add in the Terrier booster later and head for Black Rock as 8,000 ft flights are within your grasp.

It's also a necksnapper on a I200

Nice thing is it will also fly for fun on a G80.
 

gerbs4me

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any PML kit is good, the Sumo is a good choice, I'd go with the Sumo.
 

scottluther1369

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Can you do a level L cert with a 24mm RMS? Can I get say the Sumo and get a some sort of converter to use a 24mm engine?
 

llickteig1

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There's no cert motors for the 24 mm case (nor is there for the 29/40-120.)

Livingston, MT, eh! You're going to be in LDRS' 2005 back yard so you must go. Livingstone is probably the nearest US city of any size to the Lethbridge, AL launch site.

--Lance.
 

llickteig1

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scottluther1369,

Not to hijack this thread, but I notice you have been asking a lot of questions about motors and thought I'd share a reference I use. There is a ton of info on the web about motors, RMS, etc. if you take the time to do some searching on your own.

Whenever I need a quick reference to which Aerotech motor uses which case or which motors are available for a case, average impulse, available delays, approximate price, etc. I jump over to Magnum's site. It is all right here. Check this out: http://www.magnumrockets.com/aeromtr2.html

This just seems like a format that is easily readable. There may be others that are better, I don't know. I hope you find it useful.

HTH, --Lance.
 

r1dermon

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there are no motors in the H class that are 24mm. sumo looks like it would handle some small H's. i've seen it rip on a G75, great motor for it. nice and loud and smokey. my suggestion(there are cheaper kits than the sumo which can fly on 29mm AND 38mm) if you're going to go with the sumo, go out and grab that 29/180, like others have suggested. H238 should give that sumo some SPANK!!!
 

loopy

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Definitely start in midpower - like an Aerotech Initiator, something like that to get used to reloads. Get a 29mm 40-120 casing, build some birds for F40's and G64's, and then get your L1 bird and cert! I'm planning on using a PML Small Endeavour for mine when I finally get the money to join NAR...lol

Loopy
 

DynaSoar

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Originally posted by scottluther1369
Whats a good kit to use for Level 1 certification? Also most of the stuff I'm using are Estes kits which are already assembled engines. At what point can I start using reusable engines?

Also, I live in Livingston MT where there really are not any clubs that I have found as of yet. Anyone in my area want to take a newbie under their wing????
Thanks!
--Scott
LOC Vulcanite. It's 38mm but has a 29mm adapter. It'll start at 500' on an F20 and go up from there, like 3300' on an H50-10 from Ellis.

You can start using reloadables right now. Or you can use single use motors entirely, up through both L1 and L2.
 

Hospital_Rocket

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One thing about the LOC 38mm smaller rockets.

Be very careful in using the 29mm adapter. I assembled mine with a bunch of CA. The results were not optmal.



I have since changed to Aeropack motor adapters.
 

lalligood

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Pick pretty much any kit that is between 2.5" to 4" in diameter that weighs no more than 2.5 pounds when built (minus the motor). Make sure it has a 38mm motor mount. Get a 29mm motor adapter. Launch it a couple of times on single use 29mm G motors with the adapter. If flights are successful & when you are ready to certify, get a Pro38 2-grain H153 (either borrow or buy the casing). Certify with that motor.

Easy peasy. There are dozens of kits by almost as many manufacturers out there that meet this criteria. Get one that is affordable to you. Save the scratchbuild rockets till after you certify. Build light & strong. Keep it simple and success will follow!

HTH,
 

rstaff3

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I agree with lalligood. Pick any L1 capable rocket from any of the established vendors that meet this criteria: 1. the design appeals to you and 2. it's in your price range. I personally like the idea of a 38mm rocket and then use an adapter. You can easily make an adapter but I am partial to Giant Leap's phenolic one. Pick one a rocket the weight range he stated and fly it on Gs too. If it doesn't come with positive retention, buy some T-nuts and some mirror brackets. Invest in a nomex shield of the proper size.
 

r1dermon

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also check out some BSD rockets. im using the BSD diablo to cert lvl 1 next spring. but they also have a kit named the 38 apecial which is good for a cert. both cost 60 bucks. both have 38mm MMT's and both can fly on G's.
 

n3tjm

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Originally posted by Hospital_Rocket
One thing about the LOC 38mm smaller rockets.

Be very careful in using the 29mm adapter. I assembled mine with a bunch of CA. The results were not optmal...
I have since changed to Aeropack motor adapters.
Using CA on motor adapters is a bad idea!!! CA is very brittle, and the initial kick from motors may cause the joint to fail. I had that failure happen once with a 38/54mm adapter, and seen it many times with other adapters.

When building the LOC adapter, it is important to remove the outer layer of the motor tube. The glue does not soak into the layer because of its waxy finish.
 

urbanek

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Originally posted by scottluther1369
Yes, I have a long way to go and a lot to learn before getting a Level 1. Can someone point me to some good reading or FAQ on the subject of reusable motors (what all the numbers mean, assembly, etc).
Extreme Rocketry publishes a book about Level 1 Certification that covers re-usable motors. Tim Quigg wrote it and he is good at explaining the basics.
http://www.extremerocketry.com/Merc..._Code=ERWS&Product_Code=BKL1&Category_Code=EB

This book by Mark Canepa, is very, very good. Lots of illustrations and good information.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1553952081/104-7476328-0614322?v=glance

urbanek
 

als57

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Originally posted by lalligood
Pick pretty much any kit that is between 2.5" to 4" in diameter that weighs no more than 2.5 pounds when built (minus the motor). Make sure it has a 38mm motor mount. Get a 29mm motor adapter. Launch it a couple of times on single use 29mm G motors with the adapter. If flights are successful & when you are ready to certify, get a Pro38 2-grain H153 (either borrow or buy the casing). Certify with that motor.

HTH,
More options abound. But for certifing the PRO38's are nice and easy. If you decide to use Aerotech ; get the 38mm starter set. You can also buy a 120NS G tube to use with this set for about $20. The G61 reload works well with lighter rockets using the 38mm mount. Also its about 1/2 the cost of a Pro38 G load.


Al
BRS VP
 

jraice

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BSD thor, can be later modified to dual deploy!!!
 

lalligood

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Originally posted by jraice
BSD thor, can be later modified to dual deploy!!!
And it can be used for Level 2 certification attempts (even without dual deploy!) :D BTW, use a high thrust H or small I for L1 cert attempts with a Thor...
 

jraice

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Y is that, I did but y does it matter, It wont go that high on a big I motor?
 

lalligood

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Originally posted by jraice
Y is that, I did but y does it matter, It wont go that high on a big I motor?
The 4" BSD Thor goes about 2200-2400 feet on a Pro38 I285. I've flown mine twice with that motor (& then once with a Pro38 J285, which is *just barely* a J for my Level 2). All with motor ejection & no electronics.

BTW, please type the full word(s)) of what you mean. TRF is a bulletin board, not an IM chat. Anyone reading this site should not have to decipher messages. Thank you for your cooperation with this.
 

FLRockets

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What about one of the cones I've read about? I've seen them recommended for level 1 cert, since they are easy to assemble, don't require a recovery system and almost a sure bet for intact recovery. But I can't help but think that most NAR folks would consider it somehow unsporting to use for a cert flight, even if technically legal. What's the consensus?
 

scottluther1369

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Will the Initiator Start set take me to level one??? Heck, this is is like picking out an new car! : )
--Scott
 

cjl

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No - it only goes to G motors. However, it would be good to get a mpr (E-G) kit before going to hpr (H+). You'll learn how to build reloads, and also you'll get used to the better quality (and stronger) than estes stuff used in the mid and hpr kits. Get an initiator and maybe a few other mpr kits before trying to level one, and it'll be a lot easier.
 

scottluther1369

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Will a 29mm RMS get me to level 1 in a different rocket or am I talking entirely different reload kits? I some how thought the Initiator would do H with single use motor's. Do you have to modify a rocket setup up with RMS to accept SUM's?
Thanks!
--Scott
 

scottluther1369

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I don't plan to go to Level 1 for awhile yet. But finances are very tight so if possible I want to go down the right road. You know? I looked into the Sumo but there was a problem (which doesn't come to mind right now). I'd like something "low and slow" but looks cool as well. : )
Thanks again guys!
--Scott
 

lalligood

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Originally posted by FLRockets
What about one of the cones I've read about? I've seen them recommended for level 1 cert, since they are easy to assemble, don't require a recovery system and almost a sure bet for intact recovery. But I can't help but think that most NAR folks would consider it somehow unsporting to use for a cert flight, even if technically legal. What's the consensus?
I have to admit that using a saucer/cone/Qubit/high drag design is so easy that it could turn the certification process into a "gimme"... However, I wouldn't recommend for just anyone to try it. I wouldn't think that most folks (signing off on the certification flight) would certify anyone with such a rocket unless they were familiar with high drag designs themselves. The certifier can deny the certify-ee for any reason that they choose. Unlikely, but entirely possible.

Bottom line: Check with the person(s) certifying before showing up at the field with rocket in hand.

Personally, I would certify someone, but that's because I've flown several saucers, Qubits, spools, etc. I would however also ask the certify-ee to explain to me (in greater detail than normal) the CP/CG relationship of their rocket so that they understand why high drag designs work.
 
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