Level 1 cert.

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I bought several hundred Z clips for cheap on Amazon. They come in different lengths. I have 1/2" and 3/4". And I use nylon spacers from Home Depot for rail stand offs. For your motor area maybe get an aluminum tube from Home Depot or the like. It's where the screws and threaded rods are,
 
I bought several hundred Z clips for cheap on Amazon. They come in different lengths. I have 1/2" and 3/4". And I use nylon spacers from Home Depot for rail stand offs. For your motor area maybe get an aluminum tube from Home Depot or the like. It's where the screws and threaded rods are,

Thank you, I will head there tomorrow.
 
I flew my High Tech on a research H200 (38/360, smoky propellant). Got 4700' and it landed just off the grass. I would never have found it if I hadn't put a RDF tracker in it.
 
Hey guys, enjoy reading and learning from the chatter. I am going for my L1 in April at Red Glare in MD. The rocket I have built, EZI-65. I put the 54mm motor retainer on and left the cert nuts in place for maybe a small reinforcement on the retainer or just because they were there. I glassed my fin section to the motor tube. Looking good I think. The motor I'm looking at is the cesaroni I128. I plan to cover the shock chord with nomex protective sheathing, nomex blanket for chute, no electronics. Shock chord is attached to the front motor plate with metal eyelet. Lots of epoxy. Looks like I have to deal with a hazmat fee for high power? If anyone has any suggestions on my attempt I would welcome your input, Thanks.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4662.JPG
    IMG_4662.JPG
    85.7 KB · Views: 14
  • IMG_4666.JPG
    IMG_4666.JPG
    68.6 KB · Views: 13
Hey guys, enjoy reading and learning from the chatter. I am going for my L1 in April at Red Glare in MD. The rocket I have built, EZI-65. I put the 54mm motor retainer on and left the cert nuts in place for maybe a small reinforcement on the retainer or just because they were there. I glassed my fin section to the motor tube. Looking good I think. The motor I'm looking at is the cesaroni I128. I plan to cover the shock chord with nomex protective sheathing, nomex blanket for chute, no electronics. Shock chord is attached to the front motor plate with metal eyelet. Lots of epoxy. Looks like I have to deal with a hazmat fee for high power? If anyone has any suggestions on my attempt I would welcome your input, Thanks.

Good job Bob.
What 54mm motor are you going to use?
 
Do yourself a favor and use an H engine, limit your chance of losing it drifting too far away.

Make it as simple as possible, the stress of the test is enough to worry about. After your certification, go crazy on bigger motors and maybe get GPS to track it when it drifts way far, even with dual deployments, it will help you find it quicker.

I'm doing my Certification and easy and simple build Aoogee Zephyr next month. I started my L2 Rocket, an Apogee Perigrine, similar build, but 12 inches taller with an E-Bay for dual deployment. I will fiberglass the body, fins and motor mounts, so it can handle the stronger engines and last longer.
 
Do yourself a favor and use an H engine, limit your chance of losing it drifting too far away.

Make it as simple as possible, the stress of the test is enough to worry about. After your certification, go crazy on bigger motors and maybe get GPS to track it when it drifts way far, even with dual deployments, it will help you find it quicker.

I'm doing my Certification and easy and simple build Aoogee Zephyr next month. I started my L2 Rocket, an Apogee Perigrine, similar build, but 12 inches taller with an E-Bay for dual deployment. I will fiberglass the body, fins and motor mounts, so it can handle the stronger engines and last longer.
Actually the most stress I'll probably have on this flight is choosing the motor. I probably hold the record for most motor changes in rocksim. I built a little heavy on this one, didn't do the final weight yet but I know its more than the rocksim file I'm using. I'll input the data as I get closer. I added what I think its going to be and took 400 ft out of apogee already. The paint and clearcoat is going to be notable as well. And adding a payload section with my micro splash and telegps will add a bunch. I don't know if I'm using a chute delay yet but that is even more weight. So if I were to keep it more stock I would definitely stay with the H motors. But as built I'm planning on level 2 cert with this rocket later this year. Provided I survive the L1 flight. I have been launching a lot of F motors in my midpower rockets and am impressed with the stability of a larger motor, especially if there is any kind of breeze.
 
My Friend,
Do yourself a huge favor, do dual deploy after you get Level 2 certification. Do the minimum amount you can for the certification flights to limit your stress. Gong for high altitude, high velocity, and other complications are undue stresses you absolutely do not need. More stress often means more mistakes.

For your cert flights build and use simple rockets. L1 and L2 only require your rockets to only fly up and recover in a condition good enough to fly again. So adding anything beyond what is required is just adding that undue stress.

Once you get your L2, then you can go dual deploy, complicate as much as you wish, without the stress of certification. Then you can use high altitude, beyond the speed of sound engines. Doing dual deployment is required before you go for L3 but wait until you get your L2. Each step, there is more on the line, with greatly larger engines, bigger rockets, that are much more expensive to build and to fly. That is more than enough stress.

Something I have always struggled with is not over-thinking and not making it more complicated than it needs to be. I want to go as far and as high as I possibly can. But I know more than anything, my ego, keeping it in check and un-wounded, is more important than any speed or altitude. I used to teach high-school English, Wisdom is experience and knowledge and we are on our way to being wiser every day.

I am using one-use, ready-to-go engines, that I do not have to build for my first two certifications. In the long run, they are more expensive, but trying too hard and doing too much is mentally expensive, especially if there is a CATO.

I read this advice on the Apogee site and I know from other experiences in life, too much stress can kill any endeavor, as can over-confidence. You seem very bright and enthusiastic. I too want to go as far and high as possible and get there as quickly as possible. I initially was going to do L1 and L2 on the same day. Crazy thought to take the test for L2, before even getting my L1 cert.

I love will always love going cowboy and shooting first and then start asking questions. That is definitely not the best strategy, except in movies and a few video games; the odds are very not good.

The more you have to worry about, the more things in your checklist, the higher the chance that one will not work, especially since we both lack the gift of experience. The stress the rocket goes through in-flight and what can happen to the most carefully laid plans is enough to worry about. What we can control, is keeping it as simple as possible to eliminate our stress. Ultimately is it not control, what we need to succeed with high explosives shooting to the stars.

I remember the launch fever, ignoring the cold weather, that put the Challenger Space Shuttle into the air to kill all on-board and put the dreams of our nation in an awful flux. There were no engineering mistakes except the o-rings that could not function in the lowest temperatures ever launched in. If it was 70 degrees and sunny, no tragedy. It's a big difference between your ego and the lives and ego of NASA. But the point is the same. Don't let launch fever cause you any tragedies.

There will be plenty of time to test our boundaries and push the limits of what can be done, but testing is not the time to do that.

You are risking, not only your rocket but also your ego. Be good to yourself and keep it simple.

My long-term vision/goal is to go to the salt flats and launch a 20-foot long rocket to 45,000 ft above sea level to the edges of space and see the great expanse beyond on my in-flight cameras.

Someday, I want to go myself to space and touch the great beyond I have been dreaming about since the early 1970s, when I watched the original Star Trek on our little b&w TV in my pj's with my brother. A highlight was meeting Deforest Kelly, who played Doctor McCoy at a Science Fiction convention when we were vacationing in Las Vegas. I am still a huge Star Trek fan, seeing the visions of Gene Rodenberry as the best of what mankind can be, beyond greed, poverty, sex, gender, and all of the insane limits we face today. I would love to party with Captain Kirk but would prefer all the other captains leading me in outer space or anyplace other than a party.

I look forward beyond what today is, divide, hate, and a frankly a quite scary world; I believe these are growing pains. Awful as they are, the future is still something bright and exciting we need to live for.

Be good to yourself, since one thing you will always know, no matter what, you will always wake up with yourself no matter who else or what else is your world.
 
Think you are over inflating things.

Yes, purpose of an L1 is to show you can safely build, fly and recover a rocket. Keeping it simple certainly is beneficial. But that also may differ between rocketeers - one person's simple may be another person's complex. Certainly its probably best not to try new techniques on a certification flight, but if you have experience with a technique (i.e. say using a JLCR) then no reason not to use it with a certification flight.

I did my L1 with a custom built rocket and using a JLCR. To me this was simple as I'd built enough mid-powers of a similar design and had successfully used JLCR on many flights that I was comfortable with its usage. That may not be simple to someone else, which is fine.
 
Thzero,
I agree with you.

I saw so much stress in the posting and wanted to point out not to overdo it, which I have to keep myself from doing. My point should have stressed not to do what you don't have experience in, to limit the stress that hurts chances of success.

Thank you for pointing out that simple is not the only way to go. I have the JCLR that I use on my Estes Majestic and it works great and lets me fly high and not have to chase it too far for recovery. Where I will launch for L1 next month, there is a lot of open space, but the sticker bushes are no fun. So maybe I should use the JCLR.

For L2, my local Tripoli chapter uses a ranch that is 9000 ft above sea level, with thin air. A JCLR might make sense, and if I get some test flights in, maybe a dual deployment. so I don't lose it. That will be the first launch of the season in late April. The Pergine came with an e-bay and sled for the electronics. So I can go either way.

I am fiberglassing the body on an Apogee Perigirne for that flight which is overbuilding, but I plan to use it often after the test and want it to last, especially with L engines. There is a video on YouTube of a girl who got her L2 that actually fiber glasses and puts wood veneer on the rocket, which surely kept it from flying too high. So the extra weight of fiberglass may not be such a bad idea.
 
A lot of good feedback, Thanks. Yes the loss of rod speed between the H and I motors I would choose is 3 mph. Still not enough to sway me into the H? The I motor still isn't Level two kind of power though either. I really don't see where the stress comes in, not going for a moon shot here. Aside from a cato on the pad I should be good. I do have the 38mm adapter.....
 
A lot of good feedback, Thanks. Yes the loss of rod speed between the H and I motors I would choose is 3 mph. Still not enough to sway me into the H? The I motor still isn't Level two kind of power though either. I really don't see where the stress comes in, not going for a moon shot here. Aside from a cato on the pad I should be good. I do have the 38mm adapter.....

I shoot for a min. of 50 fps in OR with a 72" rod.
 
I am fiberglassing the body on an Apogee Perigirne for that flight which is overbuilding, but I plan to use it often after the test and want it to last, especially with L engines. There is a video on YouTube of a girl who got her L2 that actually fiber glasses and puts wood veneer on the rocket, which surely kept it from flying too high. So the extra weight of fiberglass may not be such a bad idea.

Doubt the wood veneer had that much impact on the weight; maybe bit more than paint, but without actually weight before and after who knows.

Well fiberglassing the cardboard tubing will add weight, so certainly make sure you do the sims in RockSim or OpenRocket and validate.
 
An I engine can have twice the impulse as an H engine, but I guess it does depend on what engines you choose since they won't likely be the maximum impulse.

I am getting my engine from a local flyer and will follow his suggestion of an H100 or H125. I will start putting my own engines together after I get my L1.

I agree it is a rocketeer's choice, so good luck to you all no matter how you choose to fly.
 
All the motors we have talked about are safe in rocksim. I like the 50 fps rule. The H100-10 has a rod speed of 36 fps while the H255WT-14 has a rod speed of 61 fps while still under 1500 ft. After all the discussion I do agree with the H motor for sure, but also think being cognisant of rod speed is important. I think the H is a very good choice for a safe L1 launch, getting off the rod safely and not risking a fly away. And I will admit I did have to get in the car and chase down a few, still remembering the words "I can't believe we found that" Hence the gps I now have was a gift from wifey. Quality time with a loved one chasing down a rocket, priceless.
 
Actually the most stress I'll probably have on this flight is choosing the motor. I probably hold the record for most motor changes in rocksim. I built a little heavy on this one, didn't do the final weight yet but I know its more than the rocksim file I'm using. I'll input the data as I get closer. I added what I think its going to be and took 400 ft out of apogee already. The paint and clearcoat is going to be notable as well. And adding a payload section with my micro splash and telegps will add a bunch. I don't know if I'm using a chute delay yet but that is even more weight. So if I were to keep it more stock I would definitely stay with the H motors. But as built I'm planning on level 2 cert with this rocket later this year. Provided I survive the L1 flight. I have been launching a lot of F motors in my midpower rockets and am impressed with the stability of a larger motor, especially if there is any kind of breeze.

I'd keep it simple. Get your certification than move on to more complex systems. I did both my L1 and L2 fights Using the "keep it simple stupid" method and it worked great and reduced the stress involved. Now I'm looking a deployment and so on at my own pace and less pressue.

Mike
 
Oh, I have gained enough wisdom over the years to accept help and learn from others that have gone before me. I'll catch up after the launch in April and post some vids. I really appreciate the conversation and guidance. I certainly have plenty of time and resources to get it right. But that's what certification is about. Thanks for the good wishes. Bob
 
... Certainly its probably best not to try new techniques on a certification flight, ...

Now that is exactly opposite of what I did for my L1 rocket. I wanted to learn as much about HPR as I possible could. Even though I had two L1 capable rockets flying only G motors that I could have used, I scratch build my L1, only buying the 38mm MMT. I used thick wall mailing tubes for the BT, rolled my own coupler tube for the av-bay, turned a nose cone from pink foam and epoxy coated it. I used a HiAlt45 altimeter for dual deploy and sewed my own chutes. It was all assembled with wood glue.

I did a lot of ground testing with the altimeter before the cert flight so that it wasn't an issue in my mind. I was more worried about the Loki I110-LW moonburner I used for the cert flight. It was a barrowed snap ring case and the first I ever flew.

If I had to do it over again, I would do the same thing. I will never build another rocket the way I built that one, but building and flying that rocket taught me more about HPR, what works, what doesn't, than any rocket since.

Because of that, I never tell people to "keep it simple" or go "low and slow" for a cert flight. I think you should have a goal for your certification beyond just getting the cert, and build and fly what you want and need to reach that goal. If low, slow and simple fits that goal, that's great, if not, build and fly what and how you want.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top