LDRS 40 Hybrids

[kramer714]

Just taking a poll on Hybrids at LDRS 40
will you be;
a) Flying Hybrids - what sizes? What kind?
b) bringing tanks
c) bringing GSE
d) not flying them but interested in them

I am planning of flying hybrids at LDRS, remeber it may be hot out (like very hot) and we may be limited to Hybrids in the mornings

Mike Kramer

 

[RocketPro]

Range will open at 0600 each day…

 

[cerving]

Range will open at 0600 each day…

L1040DM is a nice wake-up motor...

 

[FredA]

Range will open at 0600 each day…

Wow! KUDOS in a major way to the hosting crew.
FINALLY a national launch that gets underway ASAP in the morning instead of waiting for 9 or 10AM to get stuff rolling.
FINALLY a crew that understands people traveled from all over to launch rockets and not to have a leisurely, social breakfast.
Major Kudos!

It's ALL about FLYING!!!!

 

[Neutronium95]

Just taking a poll on Hybrids at LDRS 40
will you be;
a) Flying Hybrids - what sizes? What kind?
b) bringing tanks
c) bringing GSE
d) not flying them but interested in them

I am planning of flying hybrids at LDRS, remeber it may be hot out (like very hot) and we may be limited to Hybrids in the mornings

Mike Kramer

I just got some Contrail 38mm hardware, reloads, and most of the GSE.

I'm not sure if I'll have the GSE ready by LDRS, but I would like to try to do one or two hybrid flights, and ideally have someone who knows what they're doing look over my shoulder.

The GSE that I got does have a homemade cooling setup with a peltier cooler. I'm kind of doubtful that I'll get that part running by June, but if I do it might extend the launch window for hybrids.

 

[StreuB1]

Out of curiosity. Is anyone still molding Hypertek fuel grains??

 

[OzHybrid]

you could probably print a shell on a 3d printer and cast acrylic into it. Maybe even cast urethane into it. What's the nozzle? This would change it to an experimental motor. With all the associated double safe distance and Tripoli L2 required.

 

[mikec]

Is anyone still molding Hypertek fuel grains??

By "anyone" do you mean the manufacturer, CTI? In January 2022 someone from CTI said some types of Hypertek motors were still being produced. https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/cti-discussion-thread.162183/post-2225296

 

[OzHybrid]

By "anyone" do you mean the manufacturer, CTI? In January 2022 someone from CTI said some types of Hypertek motors were still being produced. https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/cti-discussion-thread.162183/post-2225296

The latest "news" on the Hypertekhybrids website owned by Cessaroni is 2004. If they are still manufacturing them they're doing it in stealth mode....

 

[mikec]

Like it says in the post I linked, CTI says they are selling mainly to school educational groups like SystemsGo. Sunward claims to have some stock on their website https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/hypertek-hybrid-systems/ but no idea if that's true.

 

[smstachwick]

D. Consider me interested, in the “not currently certified but would like to support the technology and the manufacturer(s?) one day” way. I’ll probably be around at some point to check out the setup process, see the rockets those motors go in, and obviously watch a flight.

 

[Rob Campbell]

L1040DM is a nice wake-up motor...

Sounds like a wet fart, blasting from one of Spinal Tap's amplifiers, cranked to eleven.

 

[ContrailRockets]

Plan on being there bring GSE and NOS and launching my L3 rocket and others. My trailer has 4 Solar panels and excess power for my AC to keep me and my NOS cool. Two 50 pound NOS Aluminum cylinders cool down fast.

Posted this in Hybrids 2022 but here is L3 flight in Phoenix.

 

[DaveW6DPS]

As stated on the LDRS 40 website, all motors must be listed by the California Office of the State Fire Marshall as either a model rocket motor or high power rocket motor.

No stamp=no fly No exceptions.

 

[smstachwick]

As stated on the LDRS 40 website, all motors must be listed by the California Office of the State Fire Marshall as either a model rocket motor or high power rocket motor.

No stamp=no fly No exceptions.

My understanding is that the CSFM certifies solid-fuel motors and that hybrids are exempt from the requirement due to the more inert nature of their propellant.

ROC has flown hybrids in full cooperation with the authorities for quite a while now, I remember chatting with a fellow about the technology at ROCStock in November and he showed me some of his equipment.

 

[kramer714]

No Hybrids at LDRS

I just got a note from the launch director, saying, for LDRS they will not allow hybrids to be launched, since none of the certified (NAR / Tripoli) hybrids have a CSFM stamp.

Mike K

 

[CoyoteNumber2]

No Hybrids at LDRS

I just got a note from the launch director, saying, for LDRS they will not allow hybrids to be launched.

Mike K

In 26 years of High Power, this is the first time I've seen a launch ban hybrids. Did the director give a reason?

 

[Worsaer]

Hmm. That’s a new one. I’d really like to hear the rest of the story.

 

[MClark]

State requires motors to be approved by fire marshal.
No hybrids have this approval
Launch isn’t banning them, the state is.

 

[Worsaer]

I’m still not buying it. Hand the CSFM a rattworks grain and they’d look at you like you were insane.

And they don’t fall under Research either…

 

[MClark]

CSFM doesn’t do any testing, but they are quite good at cashing checks.
Nothing to do with safety. If you did had them a grain they would have no idea what they were looking at.

 

[smstachwick]

Is this expected to be a long-term change for the hosting club or a temporary measure resulting from hosting LDRS? Or do we just not know yet?

 

[RocketPro]

Here is the reason for no Hybrids at LDRS40.

Folks like to focus on Article 18 of the CA Fireworks regulations, however, those regulations only apply to solid motors per the included definitions, see §980(e)(4). Only solid motors can get an OSTM stamp.

Hybrid-powered rockets are, to the state of CA, the same as liquid-fueled rockets and are covered by Article 16 of the CA Fireworks regulations. You must have a FAR-type of facility to legally fly a hybrid-powered rocket in CA. ROC does not have the necessary facility to fly hybrids.

Note, folks like to focus on the motor…the state of CA focuses on the rocket for anything that’s not classified as a Model Rocket (Article 17) or Experimental High Power Rocket (Article 18).

It doesn’t matter what’s been done in the past, unfortunately.

Apologies for any confusion.

 

[RocketPro]

Is this expected to be a long-term change for the hosting club or a temporary measure resulting from hosting LDRS? Or do we just not know yet?

I expect this to be a long-term change.

 

[fyrwrxz]

Well, hell. There was a glimmer of hope out there for interest in hybrids making a comeback. Sad.

 

[RocketPro]

Well, hell. There was a glimmer of hope out there for interest in hybrids making a comeback. Sad.

I agree. My first L3 attempt was on a Hypertech hybrid. We’d love to get the OSTM in CA to discuss and modify the rules, but we are extremely small fish in that pond and it’s hard to get their attention.

 

[smstachwick]

Here is the reason for no Hybrids at LDRS40.

Folks like to focus on Article 18 of the CA Fireworks regulations, however, those regulations only apply to solid motors per the included definitions, see §980(e)(4). Only solid motors can get an OSTM stamp.

Hybrid-powered rockets are, to the state of CA, the same as liquid-fueled rockets and are covered by Article 16 of the CA Fireworks regulations. You must have a FAR-type of facility to legally fly a hybrid-powered rocket in CA. ROC does not have the necessary facility to fly hybrids.

Note, folks like to focus on the motor…the state of CA focuses on the rocket for anything that’s not classified as a Model Rocket (Article 17) or Experimental High Power Rocket (Article 18).

It doesn’t matter what’s been done in the past, unfortunately.

Apologies for any confusion.

Interesting. Thank you for the clarity. Shame shame about the situation though. At least for me FAR isn’t unrealistically far.

 

[Neutronium95]

Well that's disappointing. I was looking forward to my first hybrid flights at LDRS. Guess I'll have to move those to FAR.