LDRS 36 Update #1

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Scott S

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This email was sent to all fliers who have registered on the LDRS36 Website.

LDRS 36 Update

We're 7 weeks away from the largest launch of the year so it's time for an update.

We're approaching 200 registered fliers! Keep an eye out for the next update when we'll announce the date per-registration ends. Save time by pre-registering so all you have to do is prove who you are and walk away with a pre-assembled package in your hand.

Banquet tickets are selling quickly! Our guest speaker will be from NASA and will be speaking of their time in the Shuttle Orbiter and work on Hubble, Restore and other interesting projects. Get your ticket while they last.

T-Shirt sales: Pre-orders for T-Shirts will end on March 8 at 5pm EST. There will be a limited supply of WHITE T-Shirts available at the field so if you want to ensure you get the correct size and the color you want get that order in!

Sign up sheets will be posted to the website shortly, keep an eye out for an upcoming announcement. If you'd like to help out at LDRS we'll be looking for folks to help out with RSO and Pad Manager duties. This is a great way to meet your fellow fliers.

Finally and most importantly a note on Safety. We're implementing a procedure that must be followed for checking continuity of deployment electronics for everyone's safety.

Power on checks for deployment electronics...
Under no circumstances will power-on or continuity checks be accomplished on live deployment charges, in or around individual or group preparation areas,. (A live charge is defined as a recovery charge canister, containing both an e-match and black powder connected to electronics or not). All power-on or continuity checks with live charges will be conducted at the assigned launch pad prior to launch or in a safe area forward of the spectator line, designated by the RSO.

To insure the safety of all flyers and spectators, power-on operational checks of recovery electronics, to include continuity checks, will follow the procedures below, (1 through 4).

1. E-match continuity may be checked prior to installing the e-match into its canister or after installing the e-match in its canister, either by electronic test equipment or power on check, using the rockets deployment electronics.

2. Once satisfied with the results of the power-on check and or continuity check, power down all recovery electronics associated with deployment charge activation. From this point on do not power-up your recovery electronics, until you are at the launch pad or a designated area assigned by the RSO.

3. Secure and prep your charge canisters with black powder. Once again, do not power-up your recovery electronics for any reason until you are at the launch pad or a designated area assigned by the RSO.

4. After final rocket preparation, RSO review, and arrival at your assigned launch pad, turn on the rockets recovery electronics. Once continuity is confirmed, install igniter(s) and have a safe launch.

This is for the safety of everyone attending the launch.

See you at the Field
MDRA
 

blackbrandt

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Ah... but there's nothing in the rules about doing your ground tests on the pad. ;)
 

Onebadhawk

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Psyched....
I can't wait for this one...

Teddy
 

ksaves2

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My only comment concerning this situation is unless one looks for a physical switch it will be impossible to tell.
Examples:

Quantum deployment device with a direct battery connection and no switch. Flier connects up battery with live charges on the device and doesn't "activate" the altimeter via WiFi.

EggFinder TRS using a single battery with no switch. Flier plugs-in battery to the TRS and buttons up the ebay. The TRS doesn't do a peep while it is in an inactivated state.

I have a setup that I have to do that due to the size of the rocket (no room for on/off switch) but since I do not like to drain a battery needlessly, I have a screw switch on the pyro side so I can plug-in the single
battery with live charges and leave the switch open. I also did a bench test of the setup with plain ematches and no switches. Just a direct plug-in. I observed no problems. The TRS simple bonds with the receiver and
nothing is heard to indicate that the device is in a standby state. (Except the once every 15 second unobtrusive "tweet" at the receiver)

Featherweight mag switches default to "on" when the battery is plugged in. One has to swipe with the magnet to turn it off. Again, I have flown with "live charges" attached and quickly turned off the unit when prepping.
I thoroughly ground tested with live ematches with this technique and noted no problems. The device is "off" once inactivated with the magnet.

Now if the above techniques are "koshier" fine. If not, I don't know how one is going to enforce it without stripping down everyone's ebays for inspection.

One could say the rapid "turn on" and "turn off" constitutes a continuity check but I disagree with that. I do agree absolutely no continuity checks with loaded charges with an external device period. The ematch should be tested BEFORE the powder is added to the canister!

Nonetheless, it behooves one to make sure a rocket is pointed away from anyone and anything while prepping period.

Simply, it's very difficult to install a switch in some small projects and requiring them in the light of the availability of wireless and magnetic activation is stupid.

Some have shown slide switches mounted horizontally on an ebay with a recessed hole for access but that entails the concern of the use of a high-quality slide switch. That allows any stranger to shut off a rocket.

Kurt (I can't be there so don't worry)
 
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ksaves2

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Ah... but there's nothing in the rules about doing your ground tests on the pad. ;)
The only problem with that is if one has a process that is time consuming which would tie up the pads. AKS
 

Bat-mite

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For every rule, there is someone who will find a way to exploit it. But if the club can greatly reduce the number of people arming their charges in the parking area, then they also greatly minimize the risk of someone's 8" 5:1 ogive nose cone blowing through the windshield of the car in front of them.
 

Frederocket

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Ah... but there's nothing in the rules about doing your ground tests on the pad. ;)
If you require power on ground testing at this launch, check with the RSO for directions to a specified area where ground testing can be safely accomplished... Hopefully, most flyers will do ground testing, prior to arriving at LDRS... For those who can't, for what ever reason, we will find a way to accommodate their need, (better safe than sorry)...
 

Nathan

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I have some relatives that plan to attend as spectators. How will spectator parking be handled? According to the LDRS website the parking area is only for registered flyers, and I doubt if spectators are going to want to pay to park anyway. Will spectators be able to just park along Ell Downes Rd?
 

blackbrandt

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The only problem with that is if one has a process that is time consuming which would tie up the pads. AKS
Ahhh... It's a joke from LDRS34. A group project I was in had the ejection charges blow on the pad.... we told people it was a last-second ground test. XD
 

patelldp

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Ahhh... It's a joke from LDRS34. A group project I was in had the ejection charges blow on the pad.... we told people it was a last-second ground test. XD
Amongst the cars AND on the pad.

I think the rule is aimed at preventing people from testing continuity with live BP ejection charges in the parking lot. That can be (and was at LDRS 34) very scary and concerning.
 

Bat-mite

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I believe it is part of the safety code to not arm live charges until the rocket is upright and on the pad, no? Should be a no-brainer.
 

mccordmw

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I won't be there either, but I'm always curious to hear about rulings on the Eggtimer Quantum. Is it considered disarmed when powered up but not armed via Wifi.

I wish I could go, I'll have to wait for all the launch videos to come out.
 

ksaves2

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Amongst the cars AND on the pad.

I think the rule is aimed at preventing people from testing continuity with live BP ejection charges in the parking lot. That can be (and was at LDRS 34) very scary and concerning.
I indeed agree with that but I don't consider a momentary turn on by attaching a battery to a mag switch a continuity check. AKS
 

Bat-mite

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No need for guesswork. Any questions about details of a particular configuration should go to the RSO.
 

ksaves2

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I won't be there either, but I'm always curious to hear about rulings on the Eggtimer Quantum. Is it considered disarmed when powered up but not armed via Wifi.

I wish I could go, I'll have to wait for all the launch videos to come out.
My point exactly as outlined in #5 above. Personally I test my altimeters while prepping at home with bare ematches to be sure they cycle appropriately before I attempt prepping the charges (usually a few days before the intended flight).

The issue the activating of a system with a Mag switch. Plugging the battery in will default to on and if the rocket is "pre-prepped" there will be live charges attached
If the deployment device is functioning normally, one can swiftly shut the unit off with their magnet and it will be dead. Putting a switch on the battery defeats the purpose of a mag switch in the first place.

The Quantum and TRS are another sticky issue. The Quantum and the TRS are not "armed" until the flight commences. They have to be activated via their respective interfaces. Rf for the TRS and WiFi for the Quantum. Just because the battery is plugged in without a physical switch between the battery and the
device doesn't mean it's armed.

It's easy, if the rocket isn't making any noise there shouldn't be an issue. The respective fliers will be "arming" the devices on the pad anyways with their respective transmitters and the act of plugging a battery in without a switch doesn't make it armed and dangerous. One won't be able to tell by the silence anyways. Kurt
 

Frederocket

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Amongst the cars AND on the pad.

I think the rule is aimed at preventing people from testing continuity with live BP ejection charges in the parking lot. That can be (and was at LDRS 34) very scary and concerning.
Bingo!!! The parking area incidents you mentioned along with several other similar events at launches I have attended over the years caused me to bring up this subject to our BOD/LDRS planning group. What I determined was that almost all incidents I looked at after the fact, resulting in inadvertent deployment charge firing, had one thing in common: "Each incident of inadvertent live deployment charge firing in the parking/pit areas happened after power had been applied for a power on check, or continuity check". Obviously, there were other anomalies that contributed to those inadvertent firings.

As a result of our discussion, we as a group determined there was a need to put together some guidance on this SAFETY issue. Beings I was the one who brought the subject to the table, (you guessed it), I was given the task of writing the rule/guidance. The MDRA BOD approved the content and Scott published it... Our hobby is a hobby with built in risks that we all except... In the end it's all about risk management so we can enjoy our hobby as safely as possible... See you all at the field..
 

ksaves2

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Bingo!!! The parking area incidents you mentioned along with several other similar events at launches I have attended over the years caused me to bring up this subject to our BOD/LDRS planning group. What I determined was that almost all incidents I looked at after the fact, resulting in inadvertent deployment charge firing, had one thing in common: "Each incident of inadvertent live deployment charge firing in the parking/pit areas happened after power had been applied for a power on check, or continuity check". Obviously, there were other anomalies that contributed to those inadvertent firings.

As a result of our discussion, we as a group determined there was a need to put together some guidance on this SAFETY issue. Beings I was the one who brought the subject to the table, (you guessed it), I was given the task of writing the rule/guidance. The MDRA BOD approved the content and Scott published it... Our hobby is a hobby with built in risks that we all except... In the end it's all about risk management so we can enjoy our hobby as safely as possible... See you all at the field..
Fred, Have an area that is cleared where a flier can take their rocket and plug in their battery if Magnetic, WiFi or Rf remote switched and button up their ebay. I'm not attending but the only rockets I have in this fashion are small 38mm minimum
diameter ships I have to open the ebay, attach the battery, secure the connector and close it up again. I don't think anyone would mind going to a specified area to perform this task if they are running mechanically switchless.

Larger rockets with switches are no problem. Kurt
 

Frederocket

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Fred, Have an area that is cleared where a flier can take their rocket and plug in their battery if Magnetic, WiFi or Rf remote switched and button up their ebay. I'm not attending but the only rockets I have in this fashion are small 38mm minimum
diameter ships I have to open the ebay, attach the battery, secure the connector and close it up again. I don't think anyone would mind going to a specified area to perform this task if they are running mechanically switchless.

Kurt
I refer you to the last sentence below, (the part in bold)...

Power on checks for deployment electronics...
Under no circumstances will power-on or continuity checks be accomplished on live deployment charges, in or around individual or group preparation areas,. (A live charge is defined as a recovery charge canister, containing both an e-match and black powder connected to electronics or not). All power-on or continuity checks with live charges will be conducted at the assigned launch pad prior to launch or in a safe area forward of the spectator line, designated by the RSO.
 

ksaves2

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I refer you to the last sentence below, (the part in bold)...

Power on checks for deployment electronics...
Under no circumstances will power-on or continuity checks be accomplished on live deployment charges, in or around individual or group preparation areas,. (A live charge is defined as a recovery charge canister, containing both an e-match and black powder connected to electronics or not). All power-on or continuity checks with live charges will be conducted at the assigned launch pad prior to launch or in a safe area forward of the spectator line, designated by the RSO.
Right, so it's OK for one to connect a battery up to a device with a mag switch and turn it off before it cycles completely with the magnet?

If not, you have a problem because folks will be able to do it, shut off the device before it completely cycles and no one will be able to tell. If it doesn't "count" as a continuity test since the device is halted before it gets to the
ready indication then that complies with the above.

Wifi switches are "off" by default with a battery connected so that should be acceptable in accordance to the above requirement.

Continuity testing of ematches should occur before powder is added via a meter or ODA tester http://www.oda-ent.com/Continuity Tester 2.html

Once the powder is in, even those so-called "safe" testing devices should NOT be used.

The final continuity test is when the rocket is ready to fly pointed to the sky. One better know the
error codes on their particular altimeter(s). If one has acquired several different kinds, it's best to
review what they are if they haven't flown them for awhile.

Kurt
 

Frederocket

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Right, so it's OK for one to connect a battery up to a device with a mag switch and turn it off before it cycles completely with the magnet?

If not, you have a problem because folks will be able to do it, shut off the device before it completely cycles and no one will be able to tell. If it doesn't "count" as a continuity test since the device is halted before it gets to the
ready indication then that complies with the above.

Wifi switches are "off" by default with a battery connected so that should be acceptable in accordance to the above requirement.

Continuity testing of ematches should occur before powder is added via a meter or ODA tester http://www.oda-ent.com/Continuity Tester 2.html

Once the powder is in, even those so-called "safe" testing devices should NOT be used.

The final continuity test is when the rocket is ready to fly pointed to the sky. One better know the
error codes on their particular altimeter(s). If one has acquired several different kinds, it's best to
review what they are if they haven't flown them for awhile.

Kurt
The bottom line is what it is; "Under no circumstances will power-on or continuity checks be accomplished on live deployment charges, in or around individual or group preparation areas,. (A live charge is defined as a recovery charge canister, containing both an e-match and black powder connected to electronics or not)". It's just that simple and not that complicated...:facepalm:
 

patelldp

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I really don't see what the issue is. This is common sense that really shouldn't need a rule, but here we are.
 

ksaves2

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The bottom line is what it is; "Under no circumstances will power-on or continuity checks be accomplished on live deployment charges, in or around individual or group preparation areas,. (A live charge is defined as a recovery charge canister, containing both an e-match and black powder connected to electronics or not)". It's just that simple and not that complicated...:facepalm:
Ok. AKS
 

DavidMcCann

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Amongst the cars AND on the pad.

I think the rule is aimed at preventing people from testing continuity with live BP ejection charges in the parking lot. That can be (and was at LDRS 34) very scary and concerning.
Dan and I were standing 500 feet away. I thought someone's powder can blew somehow...and it sounded like a 4 year old girl had her leg blown off from the screams.
 
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