Lawsuit?

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Lowpuller

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What is the lawsuit about that is mentioned in the rules and guidelines?
 

rstaff3

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Wow, those rules could use an update. At the time they were written, the NAR and TRF were in the midst of suing the BATFE to get APCP off the explosives list. We won. The rule is still there.
 

markkoelsch

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Those rules are pretty old. At one time APCP was on the ATF explosives list, hence a regulated explosive. The ATF put apcp on the list without really testing it, as it does not fit most definitions. NAR and TRA decided to sue the ATF and won. This is a very simplistic explanation as it went on for quite some time.
 

ksaves2

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Yeah the newer folks don't know of this stuff. I was able to get by, by purchasing a stash of "Easy Access" motors before they were "taken away" in the midst of the lawsuit. That and lousy weather curtailed my flying so my stash lasted the
dryspell. Yeah J's were as high as I could go but prefect got an LEUP and would have pursued pimping off his good fortune as a "sponsor". That's how many survived. A kind hearted LEUP holder would help with motor acquisition and sponsor flights.
Thank heavens that's in the past and not necessary anymore. Kurt
 

BrnAgainRoc

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I remember those days. So much paperwork and run around. I recall the ATF showing up at launches doing inventory on occasions. If you didn't use the motor at the launch, you let the LEUP (typically the vendor you got the motor from) hold onto the motor until the next launch. It's good knowing those days are over.
 

Bat-mite

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That crap would have definitely kept me away form high power. Now if we could just get some real clarification on igniters....
 

RocketFeller

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I just bought and flew all my motors at the launch. Prior to today's internet shopping it was the easiest way to get motors, anyhow. I still typically just buy my motor reloads on site.
 

ksaves2

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That crap would have definitely kept me away form high power. Now if we could just get some real clarification on igniters....
Use the ones that come with the commercial motors OR find a local mentor. Kurt
 

Bat-mite

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Use the ones that come with the commercial motors OR find a local mentor. Kurt
I didn't mean to say that I don't know what to do. I just meant that igniters seem to fall into the "not covered" territory, which by fault means that they are regulated. But since they deregulated motors, I don't see why they couldn't have deregulated igniters, too. As it is, how many times do the ATF come to a launch or your house and ask to see where you're storing your igniters? They probably don't care, but as it stands, they are regulated.
 

Peartree

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I recall reading once that it was brought up in passing in one of the (now fairly regular) meetings between NAR/TRA/BATF folks and the ATF guy basically said that for the most part, ignitors (starters) are mostly unregulated and ATF doesn't care to get into inspecting everyone's business. However, officially, as you noted, they ARE regulated. So his advice was that the best course was to leave well enough alone because if someone started making noise, the odds were good that everyone would have to have a permit and inspections. As it stands, its more of a "don't ask, don't tell" sort of thing.

I'm sure that there are a couple of folks who can relate this story in better detail and accuracy on the forum, but that's the conversation that I remembered.
 

BrnAgainRoc

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I can confirm the above in more ways than one. The same mindset serves greatly for firearm types and other stuff that remains on their lists.. The WORST thing you can do is rattle the ATF's cage about regulations for something and not be prepared to fight a battle. Now that APCP isn't regulated, I'd suggest never speaking about igniters to an agent or writing emails for clarification.. it won't end pretty..
 
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