Largest 29mm single-use motors...

[pr_rocket04]

What is the largest single-use 29mm motor someone will currently sell with no LEUP or certification?

Thanks.

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by pr_rocket04
What is the largest single-use 29mm motor someone will currently sell with no LEUP or certification?

Thanks.

Aerotech G80.

 

[r1dermon]

what do you mean by large? average impulse? or total impulse?

 

[pr_rocket04]

I meant largest impulse I'm sorry.

 

[r1dermon]

any G80...i think there are a couple other companies that make G80's, ones that burn longer than AT's G80. but i may be wrong. AT's G80 is not a full G. its 120N out of 160 for a full G. so its 40N away from the mark. other companies may make FULL G80's, which would burn for 2 full seconds.

 

[pr_rocket04]

A full G would be nice. If anyone knows where I can buy a full G please let me know. I have a cluster project and I would like to do air starts, the more impulse the better.

 

[wwattles]

According to Thrustcurve.org, Kosdon makes a G75 at 150N. Don't know where to find one, though.

WW

 

[rstaff3]

I think the G75RMS is close to a full G, but it also has over 62.5g of propellant.

 

[BlueNinja]

What about the G64? IIRC that's a full G.

 

[pr_rocket04]

Keep in mind I'm looking for single use. I'd rather not buy multiple sets of hardware as it could get pricey.

It would be nice if there was a list of currently available motors. Mostly everything I find on the web tends to be out of production or forever backordered.

 

[KermieD]

G-64s are 120 NS. I personally think the 29/40-120 hardware is a very good investment.

 

[xenon]

https://www.tripoli.org/tmt/EFGmotors.shtml

or https://nar.org/SandT/NARenglist.shtml

full list of all curently certified motors


I think the Aerotech G80 is the largest SU motor currently certified that you can get without a LEUP or Certification.

Make sure you don't go over 320 ns if you are flying at a sanctioned launch and aren't certified.

 

[r1dermon]

G75's are 155N total. 5N off of a FULL G. i think your best bet is G80's from AT. however. they're like 25 bucks a pop. lol. i've got 3 that i'd be rid of for 45 bucks. if you're interested. 50 shipped. for 3 G80-10T's. granted. they're 10 second delays. but you can always use an altimeter and dump the eject charges for a rainy day.

 

[rstaff3]

Originally posted by pr_rocket04
Keep in mind I'm looking for single use. I'd rather not buy multiple sets of hardware as it could get pricey.

It would be nice if there was a list of currently available motors. Mostly everything I find on the web tends to be out of production or forever backordered.

The RMS hardware will pay for itself in 5 flights or so.

In SU the G80 is definitely the right choice.

 

[pr_rocket04]

Thanks for that list.

R1dermon you have a pm from me.

And what I was getting at is I may cluster 3-6 29mm's, which could be expensive buying rms hardware.

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by pr_rocket04
Thanks for that list.

R1dermon you have a pm from me.

And what I was getting at is I may cluster 3-6 29mm's, which could be expensive buying rms hardware.

Same with going for altitude records where your chances of losing it are good. I expect to lose about half of them.

If you cluster 3 G80's (360 Ns total), you're over the 320 Ns limit for multiple motor power without an L1 certification.

Three AT G35s (@ 105 Ns) or G38s (@ 94 Ns) and you're still under 320 Ns.

Ellis makes some S/U Gs in 29mm and even 24mm, but all are > 110 Ns, meaning three are over 320 Ns total.

 

[gregzo]

Here's the Ellis list:

https://www.geocities.com/ellismountain/su.html

 

[pr_rocket04]

Originally posted by DynaSoar
Same with going for altitude records where your chances of losing it are good. I expect to lose about half of them.

If you cluster 3 G80's (360 Ns total), you're over the 320 Ns limit for multiple motor power without an L1 certification.

Three AT G35s (@ 105 Ns) or G38s (@ 94 Ns) and you're still under 320 Ns.

Ellis makes some S/U Gs in 29mm and even 24mm, but all are > 110 Ns, meaning three are over 320 Ns total.

I didn't think that rule applied for a private launch. I'm going to be making a batch of motors soon, these are going to hold me over until then...don't know if I'll make any 29's though.

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by pr_rocket04
I didn't think that rule applied for a private launch. I'm going to be making a batch of motors soon, these are going to hold me over until then...don't know if I'll make any 29's though.

Well, you *did* ask about motors and certifications. The size rules are broken down to single and multiple motors. At any launch other than NAR or TRA sanctions, you can burn anything you want as long as you can make it or buy it.

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by pr_rocket04
It would be nice if there was a list of currently available motors. Mostly everything I find on the web tends to be out of production or forever backordered.

This is an artifact of Tripoli decertifying or blackballing three motor vendors: Kosdon-2001, Vulcan-1994, USR-1997, two of which made 29mm SU's considerably bigger than the AT G80 (Vulcan full H, USR mid-J) and never ever required unneeded ATF permits.

I am of the belief that this is largely why TRA banned these vendors. Their policies sucked large portions of market share from AT after AT (and TRA) started demanding ATF permits for self-defined "Restricted Access-sm" motors.

Also they were largerly servicing unaffiliated lone ranger rocketeers (90-95% of the market in 1992).

ATF never made such requirements.

History Lesson Jerry

The solution is a stroke of the pen at Tripoli.

 

[pr_rocket04]

Yes...and it's a bunch of BS if you ask me.

 

[rstaff3]

Watch the politics please. Lets stay away from who did what to who when.

 

[r1dermon]

i agree with both rstaff and jerry...valid points by both...but we must get back to the original topic....

i think it'd be in the best interest of AT if they made it easier for people to certify on SU motors, rather than having to go out and buy reloadable hdware and such....

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by r1dermon
i agree with both rstaff and jerry...valid points by both...but we must get back to the original topic....

i think it'd be in the best interest of AT if they made it easier for people to certify on SU motors, rather than having to go out and buy reloadable hdware and such....

And we certainly have to do what's best for AT and make sure several willing SU motor suppliers are blackballed, eh? [/sarcasm]

I suggest a simple non-political rules change.

Tripoli follow the theory in its very own lawsuit and cease demanding ATF permits for vendors so all HPR motors are not "born regulated" due to an INTERNAL club rule.

Heck it might even be good for Aerotrech too

Just Jerry

 

[Austin]

Jerry,

You have gotten way off track here...we ask you keep the sarcasm to yourself as there is no room for it here at TRF. Also, please keep the conversation on topic.

Carl

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by CTulanko
Jerry,
Also, please keep the conversation on topic.

Carl

The topic is largest 29mm SU motors. The thread clearly discussed "uncertified" motors so I joined in which is rare in the propulsion thread for me precisely because of this moderator bias against positive steps forward I typically propose.

I made a SPECIFIC, practical immediately implementable suggestion 100% consistent with the current legal position of a national club which is a GATEKEEPER for 29mm SU motors.

I know for a fact if TRA simply changed that policy on ATF, SU motors 29mm H and larger would definitely be [re]released. So I claim it is fully on topic.

The fact that 29mm SU motors larger than G80 were DECERTIFIED or REFUSED on the basis of the misguided TRA policy on ATF is my evidence.

That is not off topic. That is not rude. It should not even be controvercial or political since it is a simple fact.

Unless you are claiming it is NOT a simple fact? Then we should start a NEW thread to discuss THAT. But I have clear recollection of many CERTIFIED 29mm SU H+ motors. I have seen them.

Jerry

 

[Austin]

Jerry,

Once again we ask that you keep on track...You are way off on your comments about moderation here as we all have tried to give you and all our members all the respect you deserve. However, we are a moderated forum that tries our best to do so discretely. I hope you will honor our request as we move forward.

Carl

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by Jerry Irvine
But I have clear recollection of many CERTIFIED 29mm SU H+ motors. I have seen them.

Jerry

There are presently.

See attached.

It and two others are listed at https://www.geocities.com/ellismountain/su.html

Another H (101) will available as soon as TMT returns to certification notice.

Between EM and AT I count 7 currently certified and one pending, though some of ATs are not presently in production.

So, regardless of why did what when and why, the facts in evidence show 29mm LPR motors exist.

 

[pr_rocket04]

What I was curious about is basically the largest impulse motor someone will sell with me not having a certification, not the motor.

I would like to do a cluster using H's (12), but I'd rather not make all the loads for this one. Being that there is no launches within the time period I'd like to launch, I can't certify. I didn't know if anyone will sell these being that the LAW permits it.

 

[Austin]

pr_rocket04,

The largest motors you can buy without being certified are the G motors. Many of these are available to the public as long as you are at least 18 years of age, which is a CSC requirement. You will need to check with your vendor to see what is currently available as many of them sell quickly and may not be in stock. As far as purchasing H motors, you are permitted to purchase one for your certification and this should be aranged with your vendor so the motor can be available at the time you certify.

Carl