Large Streamers for HPR recovery

[manixFan]

I usually use both... Slip the shock cord through, then make a couple quick loops on either end. Then, I will anchor the streamer in place with whatever's handy--quick clips, zip ties, short lengths of Kevlar.
.....
The twisting around the shock cord is odd. I've only ran across it a couple of times and that was with the triangular-shaped streamer, as I have previously mentioned.

I have a few questions for you... First, are your problems with this all on the same rocket, or does it occur over multiple models? Second, does the streamer wrap itself around the shock cord from the bottom or the top? Third, where do you mount the swivel you mentioned using? Fourth, could you tell me how large the streamer is, and how you pack it?...

Coop,

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that the streamer was twisting around the shock cord, it's not. It's twisting itself into a long, very thin rolled up piece of fabric. This has been with both commercial and homemade streamers. As you can imagine, once they have twisted up they no longer ofter either of their benefits - visibility and a slowed descent rate. I've tried several swivels to no avail. I attach the streamer in much the same place I would attach a drogue. When using a swivel I generally use a short length of Kevlar between the swivel and the streamer.

But I think one issue might be is that several of the streamers were much longer than the 10:1 or even 12:1 ratio that you mention. I'll have to double check though.


Tony

 

[Coop]

The length may be one of the issues, definitely. Kite tails tend to be very, very long--which is great for kites, but I suspect that, when used in rockets with a shock cord around, they take a while to unfurl and become tangled in the cord--particularly if they're loosely rolled (which was my case), or folded. It doesn't seem like your booster is rolling it up on descent, so the swivel may not be of any benefit for you.

The rectangular ones I make I've found to have best results when rolled in from the end to the attachment point, then, if need be, folded to fit into the recovery compartment. Fewer folds the better. Often, I will fold over just the last few inches to fit the rocket. This is what I do with the 3030 in the King Kraken... just fold over as much as necessary to ensure the NC can be slipped on.

Let me take a couple pics...


Later!

--Coop

 

[Coop]

There is lag--I've uploaded directly from my phone, and am typing the captions on the computer.




I lay the streamer flat, and roll up from the end toward the attachment point. I've found starting the roll on a dowel gets me a nice roll to start, then just have to maintain until the end. I think it was a 1" I rolled this up on. 1/4" would have been better, but the point is, start at the tip, roll in.




Here's a detail of the shock cord through the tunnel and then the streamer anchored to the cord through the grommets. This keeps the streamer in-place, and may explain why I never needed to stiffen up the end of it...




After a handful or two of ye old canine regurgitation, I use a nomex blanket for a sleeve. It doesn't cover the streamer completely, of course, but it helps protect the end against the ejection charge.

Note: this is a large streamer for primary recovery... if it were for dual-deploy, this would go on the other end (where the charge is).



Then, simply slide the streamer in. In something this big, it takes up a lot of the internal space.



At the end, I fold over just enough so the nosecone will fit.




Shove that in, and the remaining shock cord...




And there she is, all ready for a motor and flight card.



Keep in mind, this is a large streamer for primary recovery. Dual-deploy, I'd still roll it in, attach at grommets, and the rest. I'd also recommend a shock cord 3x the length of the streamer, with the streamer mounted down the cord at a distance equal to its length--this is to prevent main tangling. So--15' streamer? 45' cord, streamer mounted 16 feet or so. I've used shorter ones and had it mounted closer to the main, but this seems to give me the best results...


Later!

--Coop

 

[Coop]

I crammed the 36x36 streamer into my King Kraken and flew it last weekend on a H-143. The twelve yards of streamer in a 3" airframe was a wee bit tight, as I couldn't fit it in there without folding, so I used a 12" chute on the nose to act as a pilot.

It performed as expected. The nose popped, inflated the pilot, and dragged the streamer out. Of course, it being a tight roll and so large, it took maybe three or four seconds to completely unfurl, but once she did, it really was no trouble tracking the rocket during its descent. I had hoped to land on the sod, because, you know--sod farm, but of course she came down on the packed gravel parking lot, instead. The negligible damage to one fin (on a parachute landing) has now been upgraded to "minor." but she's perfectly flyable.

Also flew my G-force on a H-135 and recovered on a 30x30 streamer. There really wasn't any mistaking it on its descent. Not only could you see it from a long way off, you could hear the streamer flapping about in the crosswind. It was interesting to see the top part of the streamer affected, but the lower not as much, as it came down. Didn't drift near as far as other rockets going about the same height--landed about 10' in front of my car from 1,800 feet or so. The chute guys had a much further walk across the field...


Later!

--Coop

 

[Rocket86]

Coop,

So the shock cord is fed through one grommet, and attached to the streamer at the other grommet? So the cord then effectively stiffens the bottom of the streamer?

 

[Coop]

Coop,

So the shock cord is fed through one grommet, and attached to the streamer at the other grommet? So the cord then effectively stiffens the bottom of the streamer?

There is a tunnel through which the shock cord is fed across the bottom of the streamer. I place a loop at each end and secure those to the grommets by tying something suitable through them both --("suitable:" zip ties, lengths of kevlar, lengths of nylon, whatever have you that'll do the job) to secure the streamer in place. This way, yes, the shock cord helps in keeping the base of the streamer stiff, and with it so attached, I've not had the twisting around itself issue described above by manixFan...

Later!

--Coop

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Need input on 120 gram 24mm MD rocket. It sims 7500 ft on a CTI G-145. Currently the rocket is too short for dual deploy it was a scratch build. I was talking to another flyer at Sod Farm, and he mentioned he used a streamer about a yard long for the 24mm MD. Under a 12” chute it aims 7.7 m/s. While under a 2” x 20” streamer it sims 23 m/s.

I feel like Apogee deploy at 7500ft with a 12” chute that it’ll drift far away. So can I safely run a streamer? The airfoils May be one time use after this hard of a landing. My other option is sacrifice performance and dual deploy it with a design change.

 

[tim cubbedge]

Need input on 120 gram 24mm MD rocket. It sims 7500 ft on a CTI G-145. Currently the rocket is too short for dual deploy it was a scratch build. I was talking to another flyer at Sod Farm, and he mentioned he used a streamer about a yard long for the 24mm MD. Under a 12” chute it aims 7.7 m/s. While under a 2” x 20” streamer it sims 23 m/s.

I feel like Apogee deploy at 7500ft with a 12” chute that it’ll drift far away. So can I safely run a streamer? The airfoils May be one time use after this hard of a landing. My other option is sacrifice performance and dual deploy it with a design change.

I thought you were into popping at the top and using your RF for tracking it down?
Might try contacting Buddy.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

It would probably be best if I could deploy 9” to 12” main at 900 ft using Telemini. Trying to figure out a way to arm this sucker with a switch... My original plan was track it all the way down but I’m rethinking that because of wind drift. After playing with the rocket it seems I can cram a wire and a charge back there. But I’ll have to literally pack the entire rocket at the pad....

 

[Buddy Michaelson]

Check out my beautiful streamers, I make them up to 250ft long which would land a 35lb rocket at 19fps. I can make any color streamer for no extra charge. They also roll up into a Kevlar flame shield to totally protect it from burning. https://the-rocketman.com/streamers/

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Beautiful streamers a tad too big for my application- 24mm MD. Here’s a 12” Top Flight chute unraveled.

 

[IputtheAinBAMA]

View attachment 377773 Beautiful streamers a tad too big for my application- 24mm MD. Here’s a 12” Top Flight chute unraveled.

The original poster of this thread has by far the most experience and knowledge when it comes to streamers. As you can see in this post he has been working on a great design for years and you can reach out to him directly at paramedichutes.com. He makes "standard" streamers that follow a golden ratio (longer, high ratio streamers have next to no drag), but are built to be extremely durable. He does partner with bamachutes.com from time to time for custom builds. Maybe a combination between the two can make exactly what you are looking for. For most people the seam on the edges of the streamers add a lot of bulk (since the thickness in the seams 3x+ normal fabric thickness) and can be very difficult to pack unless bulk is distributed by folding lengthwise (cannot be done on extremely long, narrow streamers). In my personal opinion, it sounds like you need a streamer without seams but with high drag. Ask the one who has researched, manufactured, and also successfully recovered HPR with only streamers; paramedichutes.com. He is also a true American hero who's full time job is as a paramedic!

 

[Bat-mite]

But I’ll have to literally pack the entire rocket at the pad....

May I please request that you avoid this? There are few things more frustrating to other fliers than to have to wait 30 minutes with electronics running while some other guy gets his stuff together at the pad. I can't tell you how many times our launch has ground to a halt while waiting for a college crew of 15 people to get their rocket flight-ready at the pad. Each one of the 15 has to do something while the other 14 watch.

Like they say in golf, "Nobody cares if you play slow, so long as you don't walk slow."

 

[grouch]

Summer down Bat. His field is not in the North East. He may have different social restriction or lack there of than you do. Different sand box in all.

 

[Eljay]

Yeah, but unless he can use an away pad chances are SOMEBODY is going to be waiting on him.

 

[Glasspack]

Very cool...… making your own. I will, one day; with my wifes help, make a parachute out of the ripstop nylon we bought.


These are the streamers I bought to try....I am excited to try them out this year....they are called Snake Tracers and are available in three sizes....

https://www.modelrocketparachutes.c...Inch-12-cm-By-14-Feet-Long-3-Pk-STR-47-12.htm