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boomtube-mk2 said:
The real problem with EVs is the lack of available charging stations outside of major metropolitan areas and along anything but the Interstate network. Get off of I-40 onto state or county roads and anybody with an EV is going to be out of luck. Here in my city of some 13,000 people there is exactly two publicly available charging stations both located at the same CV store just off the interstate.
In many of the nearby towns that are located well of off I-40 there are not any publicly available charging stations.
Click to expand...

But people charge at home. And once you have that habit, you realize how silly it would be to bring your smartphone, fridge, dryer, computer and hot water tank to a station every 2 week instead. The only time you need a public station is on road trips. In many cases, that is not a problem. These networks are still making progress:

https://www.electrifyamerica.comhttps://www.chargepoint.comhttps://www.tesla.com/findus

boomtube-mk2 said:
I think that much of the government's agenda to push/force EVs onto everybody has as much to do with social engineering as it has to do with the environment.
Click to expand...

There is no need to bring up government in here anymore than in a thread on the Estes V2. Tech is tech.
 
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Funkworks said:
But people charge at home. And once you have that habit, you realize how silly it would be to bring your smartphone, fridge, dryer, computer and hot water tank to a station every 2 week instead. The only time you need a public station is on road trips. In many cases, that is not a problem. These networks are still making progress:

https://www.electrifyamerica.comhttps://www.chargepoint.comhttps://www.tesla.com/findus



There is no need to bring up government in here anymore than in a thread on the Estes V2. Tech is tech.
Click to expand...
Just as I said, if you rely on the government to mandate a lot of this then you will most likely find a different outcome. I know a lot of people who feel tech is tech….so many thoughts and problems with that philosophy I don’t even want to touch it.
 
Funkworks said:
Small cars have 200 miles, which is enough for many people (most really). With the lower end Tesla model 3, you get 300, which gives you as much comfort as any other car. Tesla's top Model S has close to 400 miles. And 500 is currently the maximum, which you get with the new, top end $170,000 Lucid Air. But no one drives 5 hours straight at 100 miles/hour. People need to stop and eat just as much as cars.

And don't "bury the stuff" (who buries batteries?). Send it to people like:
https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/recyclewithus(or bring it back to a dealership and they'll take care of it)

More companies and actual process in here:
https://www.call2recycle.org/explore-the-secret-life-of-batteries/
But in the case of EVs, when a battery become too weak to run the EV, it can first be used for storing solar power at home for years before being dismantled and having its materials recycled.

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Not sure yet what this is for but I like it!
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I don’t know where you are getting your data from but here in Tesla land most will barely make it to 320 and most affordable EVs are about 200-250 at best right now. The new model you stated as 400 miles is rated at 405 and most of these you will get about 10-15% less….just like MPG in a regular car….the car company’s like to project more but as we know it never really adds up…at least on any car I have owned. And yes, I know the 752 batteries will be coming some year, but right now all we see are more fires like the T had early on. It will take time to get there….not here yet. By the way….we do roadtrips and 400 miles is a good rest point….but until you can get an affordable one that does 400+….plenty old folks wont buy into it yet.

just my 2 cents, don’t mean to start an argument.
 
icyclops said:
I don’t know where you are getting your data from but …
Click to expand...

Interesting! I get data from the many industry website links I post. Feel free to give or take away a % on any number. If a specific number I wrote down is questionable, I can relocate the source.

Also, running 300 miles at 65 miles/hour takes more than 4 hours. Those who do that less often, or who have charging spots on their way, will simply get the cars first.

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Stellantis is testing inductive charging on a track:

https://www.stellantis.com/en/news/...-dynamic-induction-charging-becomes-a-reality
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World's first purpose-built electric ambulance:



🚑🚑🚑🚑🚑🚑🚑🚑🚑🚑🚑🚑🚑
 
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Funkworks said:
But people charge at home. And once you have that habit, you realize how silly it would be to bring your smartphone, fridge, dryer, computer and hot water tank to a station every 2 week instead. The only time you need a public station is on road trips. In many cases, that is not a problem. These networks are still making progress:
Click to expand...
I don't know where you live but there are a lot of places that do not and never will have Home Charging available.
These things cannot be charged by running an extension cord out a window that's plugged into a common 110AC wall outlet.
This idea that everybody will charge their EV at home is like saying that everybody will have a gas station at home.
 
boomtube-mk2 said:
I don't know where you live but there are a lot of places that do not and never will have Home Charging available.
These things cannot be charged by running an extension cord out a window that's plugged into a common 110AC wall outlet.
This idea that everybody will charge their EV at home is like saying that everybody will have a gas station at home.
Click to expand...
Huh?

They absolutely can be charged by a 110 outlet (though, admittedly, it's slow).
And most owners do install home chargers. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
 
CalebJ said:
Huh?

They absolutely can be charged by a 110 outlet (though, admittedly, it's slow).
And most owners do install home chargers. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Click to expand...
And you can do this by running an extension cord out a window?
I'm pretty sure that would be illegal.
As for "Most owners do install a charger". That is probably true today because people that purchase am EV are those with the income to do that and obviously have a garage to do it in.

But what happens when EV's are all that available? What do people living in apartments or other shared multi-family dwellings do?
My complex would need upwards of 24 charging stations installed to allow for "Home Charging" and that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
 
boomtube-mk2 said:
And you can do this by running an extension cord out a window?
I'm pretty sure that would be illegal.
As for "Most owners do install a charger". That is probably true today because people that purchase am EV are those with the income to do that and obviously have a garage to do it in.

But what happens when EV's are all that available? What do people living in apartments or other shared multi-family dwellings do?
My complex would need upwards of 24 charging stations installed to allow for "Home Charging" and that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Click to expand...
My complex already has charging stations with plans to expand. The parking at my work has charging stations. Most grocery stores up here have a handful of spots. Hell, even the parking garage at BTV has a solid chunk of charging stations.

It's already happening. While your area may not be updating as quickly, other areas are. Be careful with generalizations.
 
KC3KNM said:
My complex already has charging stations with plans to expand. The parking at my work has charging stations. Most grocery stores up here have a handful of spots. Hell, even the parking garage at BTV has a solid chunk of charging stations.

It's already happening. While your area may not be updating as quickly, other areas are. Be careful with generalizations.
Click to expand...


And I'm willing to bet that you live in or near a major metropolitan area?
I'm sure OKC and Amarillo TX are getting there as well and while there are a few charging stations along I-40 along that 260+ mile distance* once you get away from the interstate there is nothing publicly available.

*I can't even imagine having to stop along the way between the two mentioned cities to recharge my car, that was fully charged when I left, just so I can be sure to make it 260 miles.
 
boomtube-mk2 said:
And you can do this by running an extension cord out a window?
I'm pretty sure that would be illegal.
As for "Most owners do install a charger". That is probably true today because people that purchase am EV are those with the income to do that and obviously have a garage to do it in.

But what happens when EV's are all that available? What do people living in apartments or other shared multi-family dwellings do?
My complex would need upwards of 24 charging stations installed to allow for "Home Charging" and that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Click to expand...

People who make it happen:
https://www.chargepoint.com/en-ca/businesses/apartments/(and no parking lot I know of installs a charging station at each spot in one go)

As for your other concerns, what I can say is that my plug-in hybrid has an 8.9 kWh battery, which is small enough to be charged overnight with an outdoors 110 V outlet. No need for a garage, or a 240 V setup. I did get a quote from an electrician though and installing one would have cost me about $2000. I just don't need it.

In case it matters, my car (a Hyundai Ioniq PHEV) is comparable to a Honda Civic carrying an extra 8.9 kWh battery (with comparable cost). I run on 100% electric mode on weekdays to go to work (less than 25 miles each day), and I switch to hybrid mode on the weekend to make longer trips. My next car will be 100% BEV.
 
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boomtube-mk2 said:
And I'm willing to bet that you live in or near a major metropolitan area?
I'm sure OKC and Amarillo TX are getting there as well and while there are a few charging stations along I-40 along that 260+ mile distance* once you get away from the interstate there is nothing publicly available.

*I can't even imagine having to stop along the way between the two mentioned cities to recharge my car, that was fully charged when I left, just so I can be sure to make it 260 miles.
Click to expand...
Uh, not really. Considering the entire population of VT is under 700K people, there's no real metropolitan areas... Burlington barely counts as a city. I'm willing to bet you're arguing just to argue, though. :)
 
boomtube-mk2 said:
And you can do this by running an extension cord out a window?
I'm pretty sure that would be illegal.
As for "Most owners do install a charger". That is probably true today because people that purchase am EV are those with the income to do that and obviously have a garage to do it in.

But what happens when EV's are all that available? What do people living in apartments or other shared multi-family dwellings do?
My complex would need upwards of 24 charging stations installed to allow for "Home Charging" and that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Click to expand...
Two comments here:
1) You seem to be looking at the state of things today and using it as evidence of how things are impossible years into the future. No one has ever said that a BEV is an ideal solution for everyone today. There are obviously charge infrastructure issues that need to be solved between now and then.
2) You continue to pursue this argument in a thread that is not supposed to be a debate about viability of BEVs. @Funkworks even created a separate thread for that debate, just to keep it out of here. Please take it there.
 
Vinfast is a new Vietnamese company making EVs.

https://vinfastauto.com/vn_en/vinfa...-and-full-electric-vehicle-lineup-at-ces-2022
They just got an order for 100 cars from "Artemis DNA, a full-service, accredited, high complexity clinical diagnostic laboratory company providing proprietary Next Generation Sequencing (NGS) genetic and diagnostic testing that enables precision medicine through early disease detection in the U.S.":

https://newsdirect.com/news/first-c...nfast-electric-vehicles-at-ces-2022-353292025
 
Used lithium-ion battery can be seen as lithium-ion battery "reserves", and their recycling, as "urban mining".

Story:
Veolia, the UK’s leading resource management company, has announced its first electric vehicle battery recycling facility in the UK, which will have the capacity to process 20% of the UK’s end of life electric vehicle batteries by 2024.
https://www.veolia.co.uk/press-rele...-electric-vehicle-battery-recycling-plant-ukv
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One of many articles on charging basics, including links to others discussing the appartment/condo issue.

https://evannex.com/blogs/news/electric-vehicle-charging-102
 
We were on the tour in Bisbee Arizona at the Copper Queen Mine, it’s underground. The tourists are carried in on the original cars. They are powered by large lead/acid batteries. Driver said they charged the batteries once a week if they need it or not, newest ones are from the 1930's
 
Momentum Dynamics specializes in inductive charging. When you think about it, because of their cost, these systems are more affordable for vehicles that run constantly, and especially when part of a fleet, such that the charger works all the time, not just a few hours per day. So they're better suited for companies than private homes. Yet I suppose you'll always have a few people willing to pay for their personal inductive charger.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...reases-focus-on-passenger-cars-301459043.html
 
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LG Energy Solutions is a subsidiary of LG Chem, which is one the top 10 chemical companies in the worlds (along with Dow, BASF, etc.). LG Chem is part of the same LG Group as LG Electronics and LG Display, that make TVs and monitors.

The battery part alone, LG Energy Solutions just became the 3rd most valuable company in South Korea. They're one of a few EV battery suppliers for Tesla, GM, VW and others.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/com...-top-range-raises-108-bln-sources-2022-01-14/
 
At home charging... extension cord vs charging station. Charging requires X amount of electrons. The higher the current, the more electrons, the faster the charge. Most EVs - cars - actually run at a high voltage to gain effeciency. Volts x amps = constant > you increase one, the other goes down. Lower voltage, higher current > higher voltage, lower current. This is why power-hungry appliances like water heaters, dryers, and electric stoves run on 220 rather than 110 (in the US).

Derailing the thread for a second. Speaking of home charging, many years ago, there was a program and product called "My Phil" (a pun). It consisted of changing small vehicles over to running on natural gas, along with a filling unit (about the size of a dorm fridge) that went on the wall of your garage. The "filling unit" (see the pun?) was hooked to your gas line and electric. You would hook up to it overnight, and it would take your home gas, compress and liquify it, and fill the car's tank. No idea why they took it off the market. In the same vein, GE came out with a 20KW fuel cell unit intended for home use. Again, it hooked up to your home gas line. Around here, where we have cheap and plentiful natural gas, they would have sold thousands. Power outages would have been a thing of the past.
 
Sooner Boomer said:
Derailing the thread for a second. Speaking of home charging, many years ago, there was a program and product called "My Phil" (a pun). It consisted of changing small vehicles over to running on natural gas, along with a filling unit (about the size of a dorm fridge) that went on the wall of your garage. The "filling unit" (see the pun?) was hooked to your gas line and electric. You would hook up to it overnight, and it would take your home gas, compress and liquify it, and fill the car's tank. No idea why they took it off the market.

That concept IMO would be incredibly dangerous with all sorts of potential for BOOM!



In the same vein, GE came out with a 20KW fuel cell unit intended for home use. Again, it hooked up to your home gas line. Around here, where we have cheap and plentiful natural gas, they would have sold thousands. Power outages would have been a thing of the past.
Click to expand...

Fuel-cells run off of hydrogen so did the unit breakdown the natural gas into its component elements?
That would be a big source of CO2.
And natural gas prices on the rise, my most recent heating bill was much higher than it was last year at this time and last year was much colder than it has recently been.

It could be worse; we could be living in France, where they are predicting a 40% increase in energy costs over the next quarter.
 
Sooner Boomer said:
At home charging... extension cord vs charging station. Charging requires X amount of electrons. The higher the current, the more electrons, the faster the charge. Most EVs - cars - actually run at a high voltage to gain effeciency. Volts x amps = constant > you increase one, the other goes down. Lower voltage, higher current > higher voltage, lower current. This is why power-hungry appliances like water heaters, dryers, and electric stoves run on 220 rather than 110 (in the US)
Click to expand...

And that's why level 2 EVSEs that you install at home (such as my Clipper Creek 40A unit) run on 220V as well. It allows me to charge my relatively short range Soul EV in 4 hours rather than the ~20 hours it would take on a 110V 15A circuit using the level 1 EVSE that came with the car.
 

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