Large electric motors, batteries and vehicles

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Funkworks

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The electric Hummer is available for pre-order. Some deliveries are expected in December, but at this point, I suspect any new customer will have to wait for 2022.
 

afadeev

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Currently all American taxpayers are being taxed to subsidize electric vehicles.

I know what you are trying to say, but as worded, the statement above is misleading.
w.r.t. energy cost that goes into propelling EVs, those are fully taxed at the marginal electricity generation and distribution tax rates. Those vary by location, same as gasoline prices.
w.r.t. funding the road construction costs, the answer varies by municipality, and the type of a road (private tollway, public tollway, public free-to-use road) we want to discuss.
Then there is the whole matter of including (or not) the cost of externalities into the current funding models (air pollution at the pipe, at the point of fuel refinement, etc.), and the redirection of funds for obscenely wasteful social welfare projects ("biodiesel" funding for corn growers and refiners, etc.).

More interestingly, the funding for road construction in the US (and elsewhere) is extremely complex, and funding models vary by country.
More here: "“National Funding of Road Infrastructure: Summary"


Otherwise I could see utility companies being required to meter the automobile charging circuit and collect a vehicle charging tax.

That would only be true if we all wanted to preserve the status quo of over-complex and over-pilfered US road construction funding model, where a part of the funding comes from fuel-surcharges. BTW, my own statement here is an over-simplification, since only a part of fuel surcharge goes to road construction and maintenance, and bulk of road construction is currently funded from other sources.
State (the largest) portion of gasoline taxes collected usually goes into "general fund", with the obvious implications of what happens next. About 60% of the Federal Highway Trust (HFT) funds go to road CapEx, the rest are diverted elsewhere:

There is really no need to stick with the current over-convoluted US roadway construction and maintenance funding models.
My bet is that we will either abandon attempts to retrofit EV road-use taxation to the dyno-juice surcharging models, and adopt something else instead (less likely). Or add another layer of complexity by adding a new overlay taxation model (more likely).

There are too many fingers in the current pie to reform it clearly, so adding a new tax stream that can be pilfered is more probable

a
 
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Funkworks

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A system for firefighters to extinguish an EV battery fire (in case of road accidents):

"With the Rosenbauer system, an operation proceeds as follows: after the situation has been investigated, the vehicle fire (tyres, cables, plastic parts, cargo, motor/drive, etc.) is first extinguished, because the battery does not always have to be on fire. Afterwards a check is made to see whether smoke or flames continue to escape from the vehicle floor or can be seen, and the temperature of the battery is measured with the thermal imaging camera. If a visual check and temperature measurement indicate an ongoing fire, the battery fire extinguishing system is deployed. It is positioned immediately next to the battery - usually directly below it - so that the extinguishing agent can be introduced into the battery in a targeted manner.

...

Only once, while positioning the extinguisher, do the emergency crews go near the burning battery. Thus they are only exposed to heat and smoke for a very brief period. Handling the equipment is as simple as using a Z-proportioner for foam extinguishing operations. It is connected to C-hoses and operated via a normal pressure pump, which is installed in practically every fire fighting vehicle in the world, or a portable fire pump. The extinguishing system is activated remotely, and always at a safe distance from the burning vehicle.

The first step is to extinguish with water, because neither the reactive material nor the oxygen can be removed from the battery and therefore the only option is to continuously dissipate the heat. Depending on the storage capacity of the battery and the level to which the fire has developed, 1,000 to 4,000 litres of water will be sufficient to ensure a successful extinguishing operation. Subsequently, the battery has to be stabilized so that it doesn't "ignite" again. This is currently still being assessed in fire tests before the extinguishing system is delivered to the first lead clients at the end of the year, to be put through its paces in everyday operations."


Not directly related but the same company appears to have made the first electric (or hybrid) fire trucks too:

rosenbauer-s-electric-fire-truck-revolutionary-technology-rt.jpg


 
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MClark

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We were doing work with the Phoenix Fire Training Academy. At the time they said they were letting EV and hybrid cars burn out. By the time they get to the accident location the car is junk, not going to risk the explosion hazard. Trying to put out the fire with large quantities of water or foam produces a huge hazmat cleanup.
 

neil_w

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More detail on the crazy 100 km/h scooters for the eskootr racing series:
 

Funkworks

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Funkworks

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Doug Demuro reviews a Rivian!

 

Funkworks

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A study on why the price of Li ion batteries dropped in the last 30 years.

"Prices of lithium-ion battery technologies have fallen rapidly and substantially, by about 97%, since their commercialization three decades ago.
...
We find that the largest share of cost change was driven by public and private research and development, which we estimate contributed a majority of the observed cost reduction, with a lower contribution from economies of scale."

d1ee01313k-f1.gif


 

Funkworks

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Time to find out more about motors. A starting point:

 
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Funkworks

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A little more from Doug on the Rivian R1T:

 

MClark

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You can park your Rivian right next to your Elio.
I’m not a fan of being the guinea pig for start ups.
 

BEC

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It looks to me like Rivian has gotten at least a little further than Elio, as I don't think the latter ever delivered a single vehicle. But at the price, I certainly am not going to be in the early line for Rivian....

Now if ElectraMecanicca or perhaps Arcimoto put one of their powertrains into Elio's vehicle....they might have something really interesting.

Added: well for heaven's sake...that's kind of exactly what their latest plans, such as they are, are: https://www.eliomotors.com/press-re...e-an-electric-version-of-its-popular-vehicle/
 

Funkworks

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You can park your Rivian right next to your Elio.
I’m not a fan of being the guinea pig for start ups.

Me? Park my Rivian? I don't have a Rivian and I never even heard of an Elio.

As far as I understand, Elio's are not electric so I probably won't get one of those either. And they look a little too 👽👾 for me. This looks much better:

rivian-r1t-electric-truck-front-view-charging.jpg
 
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Funkworks

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It looks to me like Rivian has gotten at least a little further than Elio...

I agree.

"Rivian's stock price soared Thursday, a day after its Wall Street debut, valuing the company at more than $100 billion. It also had the biggest American initial public offering since Facebook."


I won't buy one either but I'm glad someone was smart enough to do it.

 

Funkworks

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Ford was an early investor in Rivian (as was Amazon). So it likely got tips as to how to make its F150 Lightning. Here's Doug again with a first take on the F150 Lightning.

 

MClark

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That "You" was intended to be the big all encompassing you, not directed at any individual.
Elio took 65,000 deposits for a gas version and delivered none.
In the last few months they announced an electric version.

https://www.eliomotors.com/
 

BEC

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I wish them luck.
As do I. I'm one of those 65,000. In my case a low-level deposit ($100 IIRC). But an electric version of the same basic vehicle, with the 150 mile range they are talking about now, would fill a useful niche and I think I would make me more inclined to actually own one than I ever was the ICE-powered one they were developing (especially after they killed off the bespoke 3-cylinder engine they were developing and reverted to something that already existed that would make it harder to reach their fuel economy and price points). If, by some miracle, they bring the electric version to market, it will be more practical than either ElectroMeccanica's Solo or the current offerings from Arcimoto. Even better if they can get in around the price point they're talking about on their site right now (which is about double what they were saying the ICE version was going to sell for).
 

neil_w

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As do I. I'm one of those 65,000.
I hope you order it in "Rocket Silver". :)

Somehow I completely missed Elio. That looks like a more fully "car-like" rendition of the Arcimoto. Vehicles like that are extremely efficient and practical, but I put them in the "weirdmobile" category and wonder if they'll ever achieve mass adoption. Certainly, the reviews of the Arcimoto I've seen really praise it highly, but I still am not sure who's going to be buying them. Clearly, folks love e-bikes and electric cars, will they like the tweeners?

Related: recently I went with the family to Newport RI, and was puzzled by the preponderance of Polaris Slingshots. Eventually I discovered that there was a place renting them there. They certainly seemed to very popular as rentals. They were also noisy as hell.
 

BEC

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Related: recently I went with the family to Newport RI, and was puzzled by the preponderance of Polaris Slingshots. Eventually I discovered that there was a place renting them there. They certainly seemed to very popular as rentals. They were also noisy as hell.
They also get worse gas mileage than my Mazda3 hatchback. All show and not much practicality. The Elio actually strikes me as being really well thought out and with the emphases on the right things. But that doesn’t mean they’ll succeed.
 

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Funkworks

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An article on how "battery-electric locomotive tender units" can be added to a train to assist or replace diesel power.

"The addition of a battery-electric tender unit to diesel-electric or battery-electric locomotives offers potential to increase locomotive operational efficiency and versatility."


Flow-Battery-Rails.jpg
 

Funkworks

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Electric Tundra Buggy?
(More like an off-road bus!)


You can't beat silent batteries for tourism! That makes me realize everything related to leisure or tourism is better off with batteries: attraction park rides, outdoor parties (instead of generators to run lights and sounds) and probably more. No one on vacation wants to hear running pistons (unless engines are the center of attraction, likes at car races).
 

boatgeek

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Something for the really dedicated marine electric vehicle enthusiasts out there--I keep getting invited to a conference on marine electric/hybrid projects. I kind of doubt anyone would be interested, but hey, it's free and might be interesting to run in the background. Given the numbers of emails I get, I would highly recommend signing up with a burner gmail account to reduce spam. Signup link: https://www.electricandhybridmarinevirtuallive.com/usa/register.php

Day 1 – Tuesday, December 7, 2021
Theater One:
10:30 CST: Perspectives – the new normal and what's happening!
13:40 CST: Power control
Theater Two:
12:50 CST: Energy storage

Day 2 – Wednesday, December 8, 2021
Theater One:
10.30 CST: Shore charging and infrastructure
13:40 CST: Vessel case studies
Theater Two:
10:30 CST: Charging standards for the marine industry – hardware
13:00 CST: Charging standards for the marine industry – software

Day 3 – Thursday, December 9, 2021
Theater One:
10.30 CST: Vessel case studies
Theater Two:
10:30 CST: Optimization
14:00 CST: Developments in transmission and propulsion
 

Funkworks

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boomtube-mk2

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That article is ridiculous. He bemoans being reliant on car companies while proposing we rely on railroad companies instead. What's the difference?
I suspect the writer figures that all the new passenger rail systems will be federalized under AMTRAK and run by the government.
He completely fails to realize that AMTRAK is only possible because in many places it operates over track that was built and is maintained by the various freight RR's and if AMTRAK had to build all that new track and infrastructure the costs would be in the hundreds of billions.

Nothing would make me happier than to be able to board a train for a trip to either of the two large cities that are around a two hour drive by car.
That is not going to happen.
But the guy does have a good point in that cars make us dependent on cars and there is only so much room on the roads for their increasing numbers.
 
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