Lakeroadster's 2 Stage Alpha Variant

[lakeroadster]

CWF on Booster Ring

Time to attempt to make things pretty and smooth (ish)

 

[lakeroadster]

Thanks for checking.

(For the record, mindsim says it obviously should be unstable, and I'd never have brought it up if the OR sim hadn't made it look otherwise.)

No worries... I get by, with a little help, from my friends.

 

[lakeroadster]

1st day of the year above 60 degrees... The new members of the fleet are heading for the fence... time to break out of paint jail!

Primer Day 01

The booster paper ring fin soaked primer up like a sponge. The 1st few coats it looked pretty bad.. but it got much better with subsequent coats.

 

[lakeroadster]

A 62 F. day means time to spray paint! Yippe..

 

[Daddyisabar]

No worries... I get by, with a little help, from my friends.

Mm, I'm gonna fly with a little help from my friends!

Would you believe in a perfect first flight?

 

[lakeroadster]

Removed the masking tape and newspaper. Trying to figure out if I want to paint the striping on this one, or try some pinstriping tape.

 

[neil_w]

Removed the masking tape and newspaper. Trying to figure out if I want to paint the striping on this one, or try some pinstriping tape.

I personally would not want to do two more rounds of painting for that. Options:
1) pinstrip tape
2) Trim Monokote
3) Waterslide decals. One nice thing about waterslides is that you could do the black and red on the same decals, making alignment a non-issue.

Covering the edges of the fins, if you want to, will be a pain with any of the above approaches (one area where paint wins). Dealing with the holes in the ring will be a pin no matter what approach you take.

 

[lakeroadster]

I personally would not want to do two more rounds of painting for that. Options:
1) pinstrip tape
2) Trim Monokote
3) Waterslide decals. One nice thing about waterslides is that you could do the black and red on the same decals, making alignment a non-issue.

Covering the edges of the fins, if you want to, will be a pain with any of the above approaches (one area where paint wins). Dealing with the holes in the ring will be a pin no matter what approach you take.

Thank Neal. I'll be moving the stripes on the rings to the edges of the ring fin, thus missing the Magnus Effect holes.

Looking through the holes the red booster body tube will be visible also.

 

[Sandy H.]

Thank Neal. I'll be moving the stripes on the rings to the edges of the ring fin, thus missing the Magnus Effect holes.

Just curious, since you are obviously not just Oddroc Scum, but you're also quite craftey (the worst kind of oddroc scum), do you use an airbrush or do you hand paint at all? I don't have those skills, but back in the day, all of our plastic models were built with little paint brushes and Testors paint from a little bottle, not spray paint. Every now and then I get stuck in the 'how to CNC, how to laser, how to chemical etch' when the right answer was to grab a file and knock off the edge!

True story from my early days at the current company. We were assembling an 800ton 4 post press and nobody noticed the flanges on the main ram cylinders had a terrible surface finish until they were already installed and hydraulics were being fabricated. I got up on the crown, saw the 250-500-ish RMS finish and knew we were screwed. The engineers and assembly crew were trying to figure out how long it would take and what the logistics would be and what the impact would be on the schedule to remove them and send them back for rework. During this time, one of the contractors (literally, not an employee, but an old fitter who knew his trade) grabbed the hand scrapers out of his toolbox and went back up on the crown and got to work. Before we had even decided who was going to figure out a plan, he called down and said something like "Y'all need a 32 or is 63 ok?" I went back up on the crown and sure enough, he had the first one cleaned up perfectly. I looked at him, almost confused. He looked at me, smiled (missing a few teeth, of course) and he said he'd have the rest done before we got back from lunch. . .

He did. It never leaked and pretty much everyone at the company that was involved were amazed.

So, while I don't have the skills to do any good finishing work, maybe you do and just forgot! It would be fun (probably ill advised), to chuck it back in the lathe and spin it real slow and hand paint the stripes. . .

Sandy.

 

[lakeroadster]

Just curious, since you are obviously not just Oddroc Scum, but you're also quite craftey (the worst kind of oddroc scum), do you use an airbrush or do you hand paint at all? I don't have those skills, but back in the day, all of our plastic models were built with little paint brushes and Testors paint from a little bottle, not spray paint. Every now and then I get stuck in the 'how to CNC, how to laser, how to chemical etch' when the right answer was to grab a file and knock off the edge!

True story from my early days at the current company. We were assembling an 800ton 4 post press and nobody noticed the flanges on the main ram cylinders had a terrible surface finish until they were already installed and hydraulics were being fabricated. I got up on the crown, saw the 250-500-ish RMS finish and knew we were screwed. The engineers and assembly crew were trying to figure out how long it would take and what the logistics would be and what the impact would be on the schedule to remove them and send them back for rework. During this time, one of the contractors (literally, not an employee, but an old fitter who knew his trade) grabbed the hand scrapers out of his toolbox and went back up on the crown and got to work. Before we had even decided who was going to figure out a plan, he called down and said something like "Y'all need a 32 or is 63 ok?" I went back up on the crown and sure enough, he had the first one cleaned up perfectly. I looked at him, almost confused. He looked at me, smiled (missing a few teeth, of course) and he said he'd have the rest done before we got back from lunch. . .

He did. It never leaked and pretty much everyone at the company that was involved were amazed.

So, while I don't have the skills to do any good finishing work, maybe you do and just forgot! It would be fun (probably ill advised), to chuck it back in the lathe and spin it real slow and hand paint the stripes. . .

Sandy.

Thanks for the reply, and the story, Sandy.

Old world craftsmanship. I worked with guys like that in the various fab shops I was at. Those guys are getting rarer then hens teeth.

My hand pinstripping skills are amateur at best... I've tried it and just don't have the knack. I did however think about chucking the rocket, and then the booster, in the lathe, and using a Sharpy, turning the chuck by hand.... I might give that a go.

Thanks again.

 

[jqavins]

Would you believe in a perfect first flight?

Yes I'm certain that it happens now and then.

 

[Daddyisabar]

What would you think if my launch was a crash? Would you stand up and walk out on me ?

Lend me your minds and I'll work out a sim. And I'll try not to swing out of line.

 

[Sandy H.]

Thanks for the reply, and the story, Sandy.

Old world craftsmanship. I worked with guys like that in the various fab shops I was at. Those guys are getting rarer then hens teeth.

My hand pinstripping skills are amateur at best... I've tried it and just don't have the knack. I did however think about chucking the rocket, and then the booster, in the lathe, and using a Sharpy, turning the chuck by hand.... I might give that a go.

Thanks again.

It seems both un-necessarily complex and has room for utter failure, so that's the direction I'm leaning. Maybe put it on the slowest setting and use a big paint brush just to keep things interesting! What color is the ceiling over your lathe???

Sandy.

 

[Daddyisabar]

We're Sargent Lakeroadster's odd roc band.
We hope you will enjoy the show.
We're Sargent Lakeroadster's odd roc band.
Set back and let the launching blow!

 

[jqavins]

Sargent Roadsters Crazy, Sargent Roadsters Crazy
Sargent Roadsters Crazy Odd Roc Band.

It's wonderful to launch them
It's certainly a thrill.
But we'd like to take them home with us
We hope we'll take them home.

 

[jqavins]

Every now and then I get stuck in the 'how to CNC, how to laser, how to chemical etch' when the right answer was to grab a file and knock off the edge!

Yup.

It would be fun (probably ill advised), to chuck it back in the lathe and spin it real slow and hand paint the stripes. . .

I've seen it done exactly that way in wood turning videos. (I'd link one, but my Google Fu is failing me at the moment.) All it takes is a small brush and something to rest your hand on to steady it. Since the hand stays still while the machine turns the piece, it's really a lot easier than freehand painting where you have to move the brush straight, stop and turn the piece, then put the brush back down right where you left off. Just like it's easier to carve a groove all the way around on a lathe than freehand.

That "old time" craftsmanship is great, like the guy with the hand scraper, but the right machine at the right time is really great too; one is not universally better than the other.

 

[lakeroadster]

We're Sargent Lakeroadster's odd roc band. clan
We hope you will enjoy the show.
We're Sargent Lakeroadster's odd roc band. clan
Set back and let the launching blow!

Sargent Roadsters Crazy, Sargent Roadsters Crazy
Sargent Roadsters Crazy Odd Roc Band. clan

It's wonderful to launch them
It's certainly a thrill.
But we'd like to take them home with us
We hope we'll take them home.

Yup. I've seen it done exactly that way in wood turning videos. (I'd link one, but my Google Fu is failing me at the moment.) All it takes is a small brush and something to rest your hand on to steady it. Since the hand stays still while the machine turns the piece, it's really a lot easier than freehand painting where you have to move the brush straight, stop and turn the piece, then put the brush back down right where you left off. Just like it's easier to carve a groove all the way around on a lathe than freehand.

I've seen a burnishing tool used in that manner, but not painting. I'm pretty sure the lathe, or at least my lathe anyways, turns to fast at it's lowest speed.

I'll give it a go though fella's... nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[jqavins]

Band Clan

Yes, better.

 

[Pepe Le Pew]

After reading this entire thread I recognize I am in the presence of black magic artisans! I bow to you fellas, this is awesome stuff, keep it coming!

 

[lakeroadster]

I was all ready to put the stripes on the ring fin... and now I'm re-thinking the paint scheme for the booster.

Since I want to visually see the spin rate, circumferential stripes just don't seem logical. But what does?

There are 6 holes, and 6 fins. I'll paint the fin faces, and the body tube space between them, red on 3 of the 6. As the booster spins, looking through the holes in the ring fin, you'll see red/white - red/white - red/white - red/white - etc.

Those little jars of Testor's paint... is da bomb! I've had really good luck hand painting parts with it. I typically brush on one coat, wait an hour, brush on the second coat.. done!

 

[Dotini]

Since I want to visually see the spin rate, circumferential stripes just don't seem logical. But what does?

There are 6 holes, and 6 fins. I'll paint the fin faces, and the body tube space between them, red on 3 of the 6. As the booster spins, looking through the holes in the ring fin, you'll see red/white - red/white - red/white - red/white - etc.

I'm also quite interested in this question. I think what is desired is a flickering effect so that on video review one may count the number of flickers per second and compute the rpm. My models tend to spin fairly rapidly, so I try to limit the number of flickers per second to make counting easier.

Another question is that of which colors work best out at the far limits of visibility. We don't know for sure, but at this point we think Black and Fluorescent Pink work a bit better than other combinations we have tested.

 

[lakeroadster]

I'm also quite interested in this question. I think what is desired is a flickering effect so that on video review one may count the number of flickers per second and compute the rpm. My models tend to spin fairly rapidly, so I try to limit the number of flickers per second to make counting easier.

Another question is that of which colors work best out at the far limits of visibility. We don't know for sure, but at this point we think Black and Fluorescent Pink work a bit better than other combinations we have tested.

NASA went with black and white, but I think any contrasting colors should work fine as long as the video gear is up to the task.

Any idea or wild guesses as to how fast your rockets are spinning during recovery?

 

[Dotini]

NASA went with black and white, but I think any contrasting colors should work fine as long as the video gear is up to the task.

Any idea or wild guesses as to how fast your rockets are spinning during recovery?

We estimate about 250 rpm on numerous flights.

 

[lakeroadster]

I finished painting the roll pattern and did a quick video. Watch it at 1/4 speed and you can get a feel for the advantage of painting this pattern.

I think I'll add a singular black vertical stripe, likely just a piece of electrical tape, between two of the holes, so the booster will have a start / stop reference also.



And these are made by stepping through the video, frame by frame.

 

[BABAR]

I'm a Mylar tape fan, hard to beat a strip of chrome or gold mylar for visibility, at least on a sunny day. (plus, I hate paint!)

 

[Dotini]

Any idea or wild guesses as to how fast your rockets are spinning during recovery?

Detailed study of the video of our latest controlled condition experiments have revealed the exact figure of 420 rpm. This goes for all flights, regardless of tube length or number of fins.

 

[lakeroadster]

Detailed study of the video of our latest controlled condition experiments have revealed the exact figure of 420 rpm. This goes for all flights, regardless of tube length or number of fins.

7 revolutions per second... that's humming along pretty good!

 

[jqavins]

60 fps ÷ (420 rpm ÷ 60 sec/min × 6 color segments/rotation) ≈ 1.4 frames per segment.

It seems like you'd want a somewhat higher speed camera, 120 or 240 fps.

EDIT: Corrected the formula. The first division was erroneously type as a multiplication.

 

[lakeroadster]

I keep changing up the paint scheme... I decided to paint one of the fins black, basically as a roll pattern for the sustainer.

 

[Dotini]

I keep changing up the paint scheme... I decided to paint one of the fins black, basically as a roll pattern for the sustainer.

View attachment 528523 View attachment 528524

I like that!