# L3 Trigger Pulled! Target FINALLY hit! :)

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#### Pantherjon

##### Well-Known Member
Well, I am just about ready to pull the trigger and get my L3 rocket...And I am going through analysis paralysis right now!:roll: The 3 choices I culled up are as follows:
Performance Rocketry Competitor 6
Performance Rocketry Mad Max 8 DD
Ultimate Wildman

I am about 95-98% sure I will be going with the Competitor 6, however, I would like to get as much information as possible on this rocket. I am sure there have been some posted, and I have done a search(not very extensive) and was unable to unearth anything..

The main reason I am going to be going with the Comp 6 is that it is the least expensive of the 3 choices; it is a 6" rocket almost 11 feet tall:eyepop: and is just plain MEAN looking!

I would like to see pictures of a finished and painted one, and one in flight would be great too!

So, if yous got a Competitor 6 I want to see it!

Projected L3 cert flight is going to be May 15th or 16th..So, I got some time..So, lets have a little round table talk about the Comp 6 mainly, but would like to hear about the other 2 of 'em as well!

#### dave carver

##### ....what hump?
As much as I'd like to help you out with this I really can't. I'll be re-certing all 3 levels this year with scratch built rockets. The prices of kits that are 3rd level capable have me shuddering when I look at them. I plan on useing my origional conformation rocket(now 17 years old) for 1st and 2nd level and I just started gathering parts for the 3rd level one.

Time table for this starts in March when I rejoin Tripoli, September's Black Rock event is where the 3rd level flight is planned to occure.

I wish you Good Luck in your attempt. My only advice it to have nothing else on your plate when you do it.

TRF Supporter

#### Kaycee

##### Well-Known Member
I did my L3 on a modified PR Mad Max kit that I call Blue Maxx. There is a picture of Blue Maxx in the latest Rockets magazine (Southern Thunder Issue) and a flight on the Southern Thunder DVD. It is a big, 8" diameter rocket with a 18" ebay. Mine is set up with 2 altimeters, a GPS and a video camera--all in the ebay. It has flown several times and gets to just under one mile with a AMW M1350WW, ~9,000 with an AMW N2020WW.

If I had wanted all-out altitude I would have built a PR Competitor 5 (as son Kyle did to over 16,500'). But I like a slow majestic liftoff and a flight that is entirely in view. But that's just me...

One more thing, while it's possible to set a time-line for a L3 build, I found it very hard to stick to it. Mine took 5-1/2 months from start to finish and while I didn't work on it every day I really needed that much time.

Good luck with what ever you choose!

#### Pantherjon

##### Well-Known Member
Well, I COULD go back and do a complete re-edit on my original post..But, naw, I am lazy and will type out this one instead!:roll: Changed to title of the thread to reflect that it happened!(Neat little trick I can do now with my new 'moderator powers' )

YES, I pulled the trigger! Just got off the phone from ordering my L3 rocket from Wildman! I will be getting the Ultimate Wildman after all!:happydeer:

I am jazzed..Man, a 12 foot rocket!:eyepop:..Okay, well, time for me to go do some 'stuff' before I get TOO worked up and hyperventilate!:roll:

Build thread WILL be here, you can count on it!

#### dixontj93060

Pantherjon,

-Tim
Well over at Liberty Launch Systems(Rockets Mag) they list the price for the Comp 6 at $395..But after going through the numbers with Tim, I felt the Ultimate Wildman would give me the best 'bang for the buck' deal.. #### Pantherjon ##### Well-Known Member Yeah, now that you mention it, it does seem like not too long ago that we were both reaching for that L1 on that windy day in O'burg!:roll: I made the attempt, failed miserably, but it was your words of encouragement that got my spirits back up to do it again! Yeah, it DOES seem to be the 'tradition' at O'burg that L3 cert flights happen either in primer or no paint at all!:roll: Well, I don't plan on continuing THAT tradition! Am sure sure that Jim and I can come up with a suitable eye popping paint scheme for it!:eyepop: Cool, Jon! Wow, I wish I was back at Oburg to see that monster take to the air. Seems like a couple months ago when we first met, both looking for L1. I plan to stay an L2 for the foreseeable future, but definitely want to go after that L3 someday--maybe when I retire from the USAF. You've already made your choice, but I think I would have chosen the Wildman kit too--love what they're doing with rockets/rocketry and their willingness to stand behind their products. Great choice! VERY much looking forward to this build thread. Will it be prettified before first flight and/or cert? Oburg wisdom says first flights should be in primer... #### Pantherjon ##### Well-Known Member Ditto to Crazy Jim, the Ultimate choice for an LIII! I watched Wildman fly his on a big ol' four foot skid style N motor at Bong this fall, a real crowd pleazer. Good luck and don't forget to make some room for that new How High just for grins and giggles. Boy, I don't know the space is going to be a little tight in the avbay for that to go in too!:roll: #### Rocketjunkie ##### Addicted to APCP Yeah, it DOES seem to be the 'tradition' at O'burg that L3 cert flights happen either in primer or no paint at all!:roll: Well, I don't plan on continuing THAT tradition! Am sure sure that Jim and I can come up with a suitable eye popping paint scheme for it!:eyepop: The probability of failure is directly proportional to the effort put into the paint job before the first flight I figured you would go for L3 eventually, just didn't expect to find out about it on TRF:eyepop: #### WDG ##### Member Where are you doing your L3 cert flight attempt? OK, so since you decided to go with the Wildman, I thought I'd plug a video of a friend's Ultimate Wildman. First flight was on a mojave green M to 9111 ft. It landed halfway between the launch pad and the spectator line. Make sure to watch the whole video. It is one of the better recoveries I have witnessed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCaOq3UT6Z0 BTW, this thing lawn darted on its second flight on a huge N. (A brand new dual propellant CTI.) The mods we did to the Wildman resulted in a bullet proof fincan that survived a lawn dart from about 13 to 15,000 ft. Once we dug (and dug and dug) and then yanked it out of the ground with a chain and a 4WD truck, I cut the damaged portion off (including an accordioned almost new - just this flight) motor case. (For sale: CTI 98mm, 6XL case - only used once.) I plan to re-use it on one of my projects. It peeled some of the chrome paint off the fins, but other than one shovel ding, it came out OK. #### Pantherjon ##### Well-Known Member The probability of failure is directly proportional to the effort put into the paint job before the first flight Well, I will just have to go against all odds then!:roll:I am sure that Jim and I can come up with a paint scheme that will be both eye pleasing and not take much effort to pull off..Knock on wood! I figured you would go for L3 eventually, just didn't expect to find out about it on TRF:eyepop: Guess I need to call you soon so we can discuss my plans..Better yet, we can discuss it at the January launch. Truth be told, I need to do some reading to get the skinny on the EXACT procedure to follow for an L3 attempt..I am pretty sure I know, just want to make sure I am CERTAIN of what needs to be done and when.. #### Pantherjon ##### Well-Known Member Very cool video! Nice how it was tracked through the entire flight! L3 Cert flight will be in Orangeburg, SC at our May launch(15th/16th), odds are it will probably happen on Sunday(16th) - provided of course mother nature cooperates! Where are you doing your L3 cert flight attempt? OK, so since you decided to go with the Wildman, I thought I'd plug a video of a friend's Ultimate Wildman. First flight was on a mojave green M to 9111 ft. It landed halfway between the launch pad and the spectator line. Make sure to watch the whole video. It is one of the better recoveries I have witnessed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCaOq3UT6Z0 BTW, this thing lawn darted on its second flight on a huge N. (A brand new dual propellant CTI.) The mods we did to the Wildman resulted in a bullet proof fincan that survived a lawn dart from about 13 to 15,000 ft. Once we dug (and dug and dug) and then yanked it out of the ground with a chain and a 4WD truck, I cut the damaged portion off (including an accordioned almost new - just this flight) motor case. (For sale: CTI 98mm, 6XL case - only used once.) I plan to re-use it on one of my projects. It peeled some of the chrome paint off the fins, but other than one shovel ding, it came out OK. #### RandyM ##### Well-Known Member Well, I will just have to go against all odds then!:roll:I am sure that Jim and I can come up with a paint scheme that will be both eye pleasing and not take much effort to pull off..Knock on wood! Guess I need to call you soon so we can discuss my plans..Better yet, we can discuss it at the January launch. Truth be told, I need to do some reading to get the skinny on the EXACT procedure to follow for an L3 attempt..I am pretty sure I know, just want to make sure I am CERTAIN of what needs to be done and when.. Are you doing a TRA or NAR L3? #### Pantherjon ##### Well-Known Member Are you doing a TRA or NAR L3? Probably Tripoli, as there is a TAP nearby..Nearest NAR L3CC member is in the Atlanta area(in fact, both L3CC members are).. #### Pantherjon ##### Well-Known Member Got the first component of the L3 build in yesterday!:happydeer: Got my 1" tubular nylon..I got a bundle of it, 125 yards to be exact!:eyepop: For a darn good price of$50 off Ebay..

Sorry for the poor picture quality..Batteries in my camera went poof, so used the little gum cam I recently got..

#### dixontj93060

##### Well-Known Member
Hey! So you were the one I was bidding against! ;-)

Got my 1" tubular nylon..I got a bundle of it, 125 yards to be exact!:eyepop: For a darn good price of $50 off Ebay.. #### rfjustin ##### Well-Known Member BTW, this thing lawn darted on its second flight on a huge N. (A brand new dual propellant CTI.) I remember that flight, I also got a good video of it. Any idea what was the cause of the dart? Pantherjon, Did you get the new UW with the longer booster tube? Justin #### Pantherjon ##### Well-Known Member Hey! So you were the one I was bidding against! ;-) Don't think so..This was a 'buy it now' listing..Seller still has a bunch more listed(well quantity:more then 10 in the ebay listing) here..and the best part? FREE shipping! #### Pantherjon ##### Well-Known Member I remember that flight, I also got a good video of it. Any idea what was the cause of the dart? Pantherjon, Did you get the new UW with the longer booster tube? Justin In my conversation with him, Tim did mention the new longer 5' booster tube would be in the kit.. #### Pantherjon ##### Well-Known Member Did some tinkering around with RockSim and have created a preliminary RS file..A lot of it is just pure speculation, IE the fin dimensions and proper placement of centering rings..All the other info I feel should be fairly accurate(as far as lengths of tubing) as I got those dimensions off the Wildman website.Only other measurement I don't have nailed down is the exposed length of the nose cone..I haven't populated it with a sled, altimeters, shock cords or mounting hardware yet.. Have a look, if you see I have left something out, or if you know the correct fin dimensions let me know! View attachment Wanted Dead or Alive v2.rkt Last edited: #### JDcluster ##### Well-Known Member Due to the rather short root chord vs fin span, they most likely will want to flutter. I did modify an early Concept 98mm with a fin set similar to what you have. You will need at least 1/8" G 10 or thicker to help prevent fluttering. The rocket has been hit pretty hard with no less than three different 76mm x 2500 loads. The fastest put it at mach 0.7 to 6900ft. JD #### ECayemberg ##### Well-Known Member JD, I didn't look at Jon's RSim, but assuming that he's using the stock Ult. Wildman fins, they are 3/16" thick G10. I'm not sure I understand your comment about relatively short cord vs. span. I have found clipped delta (trapezoidal) fins with both leading edge and trailing edge sweeps to be relatively immune to flutter. IE, it is my belief that a longer root and a shorter span is less prone to tip flutter than fins with shorter roots and longer/larger spans. Although I don't care for the construction of the PR Concept fin cans, I believe the delta fin shape of them is a good design in terms of minimal flutter. I've personally seen a few Ultimate Wildmans fly on high thrusting N motors (N4100+) without glass on the fins without issue. My personal preference would be to glass tip-to-tip for durability and longevity, but the design has proven to stand up to 6 grain 4' long 98mm motors without the need for glass. Congrats on the purchase, Jon! Looking forward to the build thread! -Eric- #### dixontj93060 ##### Well-Known Member Yeah, I saw that one. I just didn't want Olive Drab color. I ended up with 100 yds of bright Red for$33.58 + shipping.

Don't think so..This was a 'buy it now' listing..Seller still has a bunch more listed(well quantity:more then 10 in the ebay listing) here..and the best part? FREE shipping!