L2 Kit Recommendation

[jqavins]

I hope to qualify L2 at LDRS, which is less than a month away. I got my ass off the couch in into the desk chair on Saturday to finalize the design and order parts for the rocket. I was worrying over things like the parachute size, parachute attachment, and other such details when it hit me that, to use the particular fins I want to use, I could just buy a kit and change out the fins.

I intend to use a 54 mm motor mount, probably 4" airframe, 4FNC, motor eject plus Jolly Logic Chute Release. The fins are half-hearts, 3½ or 4 inch semispan and about 6 inch maximum chord. To be clear, I have the fins, but they're not here with me.

Suggestions, please?

(Incidentally, I emailed the same question to customer service at LOC.)

Of course, in the mean time I think I've worked out a good 'chute attachment method to go with the other slightly unusual thing I'd do in a scratch design. So scratch is not out of the question. I'll detail that if I end up going that way, but it's not germane here.

A decision is needed before the end of the day, as I need to get either a kit or parts on order post hast.

 

[Rschub]

it hit me that, to use the particular fins I want to use, I could just buy a kit and change out the fins.

This describes my entire HPR experience so far.

I have Scott at Dragon rocketry on speed dial for cutting new fins.

Edit: The fins on a LOC Goblin are big enough that you may be able to cut them to the shape of your design.

 

[NTP2]

Quick! A emergency call to @DragonRocketry ! Do you have something for this patient!!

 

[loopy]

There are lots of options from several manufacturers. How tall do you want it? You don't want pyro dual deploy now, but will you want that at some point in the future? Do you want a transition to a smaller diameter body tube somewhere in the rocket? Things like that will guide your choice.

 

[tsmith1315]

What motor size are you thinking? Baby J, mid K?

Full L?

 

[mtnmanak]

It's not cheap, but, from the perspective of being a "one-stop-shop" experience, it is difficult to beat the Apogee Level 2 rocket

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Kits/Skill_Level_4_Kits/Level-2

It comes with everything you need to do a dual-deploy Level 2 flight, except the electronics... and you could always fly it low and slow on a single deploy flight for a cert.

And, with 5 min or 15 min epoxy, this rocket could easily be built in a weekend.

I have one of these and have flown it on everything from a small J motor up to a full L motor, with no issues.

 

[secretagent]

I used a 5.5"/38mm LOC Minie Magg (with a 36" payload) for L2 and regretted not being able to use the same bird for L3. I used a 4"/75mm AMW Purple Parrot for my L3 and regretted using a 4" tube that constrained my main parachute sizes.

I'd recommend the LOC 5.5" Iris with the MMT if you don't mind cardboard.

 

[jqavins]

This describes my entire HPR experience so far.

I have Scott at Dragon rocketry on speed dial for cutting new fins.

Edit: The fins on a LOC Goblin are big enough that you may be able to cut them to the shape of your design.

I actually have the heart shaped fins in hand, though I'll probably glass them, since they're 1/8" Dollar Tree plywood.

There are lots of options from several manufacturers. How tall do you want it? You don't want pyro dual deploy now, but will you want that at some point in the future? Do you want a transition to a smaller diameter body tube somewhere in the rocket? Things like that will guide your choice.

I don't need this to be capable of dual deployment flights, and I want to KISS, so no transitions, no payload bay, etc. (For future dual deployment flights, I have an 80% build EZI-65 that I'll have to strip back to 50% built in order to fix the mistakes that younger, stupider me made while building it. I will fix and finish that, but I want something now that I can have ready in a hurry.

What motor size are you thinking? Baby J, mid K?

Full L?

Baby to mid J. Of course, the capability to go full K in the future is a plus. In my mind, L is L3, even though it's actually not.

It's not cheap, but, from the perspective of being a "one-stop-shop" experience, it is difficult to beat the Apogee Level 2 rocket

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Kits/Skill_Level_4_Kits/Level-2

It comes with everything you need to do a dual-deploy Level 2 flight, except the electronics... and you could always fly it low and slow on a single deploy flight for a cert.

And, with 5 min or 15 min epoxy, this rocket could easily be built in a weekend.

I have one of these and have flown it on everything from a small J motor up to a full L motor, with no issues.

I'll take a good look.

I used a 5.5"/38mm LOC Minie Magg (with a 36" payload) for L2 and regretted not being able to use the same bird for L3. I used a 4"/75mm AMW Purple Parrot for my L3 and regretted using a 4" tube that constrained my main parachute sizes.

I'd recommend the LOC 5.5" Iris with the MMT if you don't mind cardboard.

I don't mind cardboard. For this build, I'd prefer it, which is why I started looking at LOC. (Their heavy cardboard HPR tubes are what I'd expect to buy if I end up going scratch.)

UPDATE: Regarding the Apogee Level-2, you ain't kiddin' with that "It's not cheap" statement! At $435 it's WAY more than I intend to spend on this. Everybody knows that Apogee's prices are somewhat high, and I buy from them sometimes anyway in return for Peak of Flight and other things that they do for free, but I'm not spending that much.

SECOND UPDATE: The LOC 5.5" Iris looks like more rocket than I need. I expect I'll never go for L3, since I have only moderate interest in HPR and M, N, and O motors cost too damn much. L2 lets me take RSO shifts and dabble in research motors, but I don't have a reason to go for L3. The 4" Yank IRIS looks about right, and is not much more than a third the price of the 5.5" version. That may be the winner.

Keep'm coming. Thanks.

 

[Antares JS]

You want to certify at LDRS... which is in three and a half weeks... and you haven't even ordered a rocket.

Your gumption is impressive.

LOC Warlock with 54mm motor mount. You could probably even build it with wood glue and skip the epoxy, which should speed things up.

 

[NTP2]

Your gumption is impressive.

Indeed, I really want to see if he can pull it off!!

 

[jqavins]

No, my procrastination is impressive. What looks like gumption is stubborn stupidity. But, a 4FNC really can be built in time even when it's big and heavy. It will not have a nice paint job.

I'm looking at LOC's web page of 4 inch rockets, and there does not seem to be a Warlock.

EDIT: Oops, you never said 4". OK, I'm looking at it now.

 

[David_Stack]

Basic 4" diameter LOC kits akin to the Ezi 65 look to be in the $130 range.

A quick trip through the components section pricing body tubes, coupler, centering rings, MMT, and nose cone and I'm at about $90. If you still need to account for recovery hardware etc. it seems repurposing a kit onto which you install your fins may be the more cost-effective option.

 

[RokitFlyr]

Nothing at Appogee is "cheap" or "free". LOC is a good choice for kits or parts.

 

[secretagent]

I expect I'll never go for L3, since I have only moderate interest in HPR and M, N, and O motors cost too damn much. L2 lets me take RSO shifts and dabble in research motors, but I don't have a reason to go for L3. The 4" Yank IRIS looks about right, and is not much more than a third the price of the 5.5" version. That may be the winner.

I had expected to stop at L2 as well, but my son (Jr. Level 1) egged me on.

We have a 4" IRIS and if you're absolutely, positively, completely sure you won't go for L3 then it is a fantastic 54/L2 bird. It is actually the reason I bought the 5.5" IRIS - the 4" flies amazingly well. I got my L1 certification with a 2.26" IRIS, so I clearly have an affinity for the design.

 

[krislhull]

I'm looking at LOC's web page of 4 inch rockets, and there does not seem to be a Warlock.

The Warlock is a 7.5" kit with a 54mm mount.... A perfect kit for low and slow L2 motors!

In my mind, any of the LOC kits would make for a perfect L2 build.

 

[jqavins]

We have a 4" IRIS and if you're absolutely, positively, completely sure you won't go for L3 then it is a fantastic 54/L2 bird.

I'm not absolutely positively, completely sure of anything but death and taxes, but for the L3, I'm close enough to risk having to buy another kit or kit of parts.

I'm zeroing in on the 4" Iris as probably the choice. I'll wind up covering over the fin slots, since my fins don't have tabs, and adding fiberglass tape to the fillets. Which does mean I'll want to keep it slow, which means the Warlock is not out of the question.

 

[David_Stack]

Not

Which does mean I'll want to keep it slow, which means the Warlock is not out of the question.

May want to fire up Open Rocket or Rocksim. Given your stated fin dimensions (The fins are half-hearts, 3½ or 4 inch semispan and about 6 inch maximum chord) I fear you may be 'under-finned' on the Warlock's larger diameter airframe.

 

[Rschub]

Indeed, I really want to see if he can pull it off!!

I have a Doorknob sitting in the box that I want to fly at LDRS, I will be happy to take all bets.......thinking it will happen.

 

[NTP2]

I'm zeroing in on the 4" Iris as probably the choice. I'll wind up covering over the fin slots, since my fins don't have tabs, and adding fiberglass tape to the fillets. Which does mean I'll want to keep it slow, which means the Warlock is not out of the question.

I have the 3 inch iris and it’s definitely simple enough to do in a day.

 

[Rob Campbell]

You want to certify at LDRS... which is in three and a half weeks... and you haven't even ordered a rocket.

Your gumption is impressive.

LOC Warlock with 54mm motor mount. You could probably even build it with wood glue and skip the epoxy, which should speed things up.

I second the Warlock recommendation. I did my L2 cert with a Warlock and it's a great L2 cert rocket. It remains in sight on a J275 and it lands on the field. The build is quick and easy. The only question is will you have time to paint it. You'll be at the mercy of the weather for paint.

 

[RokitFlyr]

I second the Warlock recommendation. I did my L2 cert with a Warlock and it's a great L2 cert rocket. It remains in sight on a J275 and it lands on the field. The build is quick and easy. The only question is will you have time to paint it. You'll be at the mercy of the weather for paint.

Paint? Let it earn the Cert and the paint!

 

[NTP2]

I have a Doorknob sitting in the box that I want to fly at LDRS, I will be happy to take all bets.......thinking it will happen.

If he was stupid enough to not do KISS I’d take that but he’s not that stupid so I’ll pass.

 

[loopy]

In that case, any of the 4FNC 4" rockets that are the length you want would work for your needs. I would still be hesitant to close off the possibility of dual deploy in the future of whatever you build, though. Good luck!

 

[-Slick-Ice]

I used the 4" IRIS for my L2 It was about 9LBS with electronics bay and is probably the biggest LOC kit I want to put on the rail by myself. It goes GREAT on the I357 or J460T/J315R/J415W. I can also attest to its durability from trying to use a jolly logic instead of the RRC2+ it has now.

You "could" use the 5.5" IRIS but it better be something like the J800 and you will need to bring a friend to help load it. It definitely wouldn't go out of sight.

You can also just order another 4" body tube instead of trying to fill in the pre-cut slots. If you do motor deploy I needed like 2g of black powder. The 1.5 that comes with the motors was not enough.

 

[jqavins]

Not

May want to fire up Open Rocket or Rocksim. Given your stated fin dimensions (The fins are half-hearts, 3½ or 4 inch semispan and about 6 inch maximum chord) I fear you may be 'under-finned' on the Warlock's larger diameter airframe.

I have every intention of running sims, so matter what I wind up picking, and nose weight may well become my very good friend.

 

[jqavins]

You can also just order another 4" body tube instead of trying to fill in the pre-cut slots.

Since I'll have the glass cloth and epoxy out, I figure I'll just put a strip over each slot than mount the fins elsewhere.

If you do motor deploy I needed like 2g of black powder. The 1.5 that comes with the motors was not enough.

Thanks for that, I'll be sure to look into it. The latest RS (I got it Saturday) actually has an ejection charge calculator, and I'll add a half gram more "for luck".

 

[Art Upton]

my L2 re-cert* was in 2003 on a LOC I-Roc pop at the top on a 38mm J. Today you can just use the JLCR.
I'd say use your custom fins for something else and use a LOC kit stock and go for your L2.

*I had a Tripoli "Confirmation" in 1989 and back then could buy an M motor but I mostly stayed with L1 stuff mostly... thru the 1990s.

Had to get the NAR L2 to get into other motors I wanted at that time.

 

[jqavins]

If he was stupid enough to not do KISS I’d take that but he’s not that stupid so I’ll pass.

Aw, shucks.

 

[jqavins]

I'd say use your custom fins for something else and use a LOC kit stock and go for your L2.

That's good advice. I've had my heart set (no pun intended) on these fins, so I have to think about whether or not I'll take that good advice.

 

[NTP2]

That's good advice. I've had my heart set (no pun intended) on these fins, so I have to think about whether or not I'll take that good advice.

It’s just fins, as long as it’s stable I’d say go ahead if it makes you happy, I mean what’s the point of getting it if you didn’t have fun doing it!