L2 capable recommendation

[tmorgenthaler]

Good day all,
This past weekend I finally got to launch my LOC Hi-tech after a year delay because of COVID, and it was successful and I achieved my L1 Cert on an Aerotech RMS H123W-14 at Red Glare 2022 in Maryland. I plan on launching it some more, where I can, but the launch site is 2 hour drive, and not open again until the fall. I'd like to start my summer project, and after loosing site at 3200', I'd like to consider a lower and heavier (fiberglass) L2 rocket. My Hi-tech recovered just fine using a JLCR, but I don't want something up at 4-6k, where I may loose it with a high gust of wind.

I'd like to get some opinions (everyone has one). I've been looking at some of the Madcow kits, as I hear they make great kits, but not all of them seem to have directions. As this would be my first attempt with fiberglass, I want good directions. Their 4" fiberglass Rogue kit seems to be a good candidate, as it's fairly heavy (8 lbs), but I don't see a link on their site to directions or a RockSim file.

The Little John and Nike Smokes may be good options, but they are a few pounds lighter, and they are putting me at higher altitudes on J engines.

I'd love to do a 4" fiberglass V2, but it appears they don't make it anymore.

I know electronics bays aren't required for L2, nor is dual deployment, but I'm not opposed to it.

 

[AndrewGil]

After I got my Level 1 I was looking at the Apogee Katana kit for my level two. Luckily, my girlfriend got me a Wildman 3" Punisher for Christmas so that is what I am going to use as my Level 2. Its a bit tricky since it is Headend dual deploy. I am in the middle of building it, and so far it is going together great.

 

[tmorgenthaler]

After I got my Level 1 I was looking at the Apogee Katana kit for my level two. Luckily, my girlfriend got me a Wildman 3" Punisher for Christmas so that is what I am going to use as my Level 2. Its a bit tricky since it is Headend dual deploy. I am in the middle of building it, and so far it is going together great.

I was looking at some of the Wildman rockets as well. The punisher may be a good option. Not quite sure what to make of the Headend Dual Deploy. Thanks for the input!

 

[David Schwantz]

Not many kits will come with complete instructions. They just figure by now you should now what to do.
With that being said:
Wash all parts in warm soapy water first.
Scuff fiberglass before gluing, I like 36 grit, remove all dust.
Use good epoxy, Rocketpoxy, West systems, even Bob Smith will work.
Other than that, glass can be just like a cardboard build. Drill vent holes, align fins, install recovery system.
Painting is straight forward, no spirals to fill, prime and paint. If using decal I like a clear coat over them.
Good luck.

 

[AndrewGil]

I was looking at some of the Wildman rockets as well. The punisher may be a good option. Not quite sure what to make of the Headend Dual Deploy. Thanks for the input!

I was on the fence about it at first, but when you understand the aspects of it, its not that scary.

 

[David Schwantz]

HED is simple. Below the Avbay is the main chute. Above it in the NC is the main. Blow the lower section off to deploy drogue chute. Then blow the nose off to deploy the main chute.

 

[Titan II]

V-2 (4

Wildman 4 inch V2 The kit includes 4" Filament wound fiberglass nose cone with stepped aluminum tip 4" Filament wound fiberglass body tube 4" Filament wound fiberglass boat tail cut to match an Aeropack retainer 54mm fiberglass motor mount Head end dual deployment including Filament wound...

wildmanrocketry.com

The last thing you need to concern yourself with is directions. Listen to Dave's comments. As he mentioned (quicker than I am), HEDD is no big deal.

 

[tmorgenthaler]

V-2 (4

Wildman 4 inch V2 The kit includes 4" Filament wound fiberglass nose cone with stepped aluminum tip 4" Filament wound fiberglass body tube 4" Filament wound fiberglass boat tail cut to match an Aeropack retainer 54mm fiberglass motor mount Head end dual deployment including Filament wound...

wildmanrocketry.com

The last thing you need to concern yourself with is directions. Listen to Dave's comments. As he mentioned (quicker than I am), HEDD is no big deal.

Awesome, thanks for the link! That may be my next rocket to build.

I'm not terribly worried about directions, as I've built a number or rockets, but I guess it's a crutch that I'm used to falling back on. Being new to fiberglass would be my only concern of wanting directions.

 

[Fattbank64]

Congratulations on achieving L1!

 

[Titan II]

Ye Olde Rocket Forum - Wildman V2 Build

Ye Olde Rocket Forum is for the discussion of old model rockets.

www.oldrocketforum.com

How To Build A "Stock" 3IN DARKSTAR CJ Step By Step

Here is the index to the build steps of Crazy Jim's 3" Wildman Darkstar Build 1 - Chop body tube 2 - Chop body tube 3 - Glueless Nose cone 4 - Glueless Nose cone 5 - Glueless Nose cone 6 - Vent band 7 - Vent band 8 - Adapter 9 - Adapter 10 - Sanding and marking MMT 11 - Marking and...

www.rocketryforum.com

There are numerous build threads that will give you more information than you will ever want to know...and then some.

 

[dhbarr]

I'd argue drag is a lot easier than mass if the objective is low and slow, because you don't have to crank up the recovery system.

 

[Adam3836]

Congratulations on L1

Good day all,
This past weekend I finally got to launch my LOC Hi-tech after a year delay because of COVID, and it was successful and I achieved my L1 Cert on an Aerotech RMS H123W-14 at Red Glare 2022 in Maryland. I plan on launching it some more, where I can, but the launch site is 2 hour drive, and not open again until the fall. I'd like to start my summer project, and after loosing site at 3200', I'd like to consider a lower and heavier (fiberglass) L2 rocket. My Hi-tech recovered just fine using a JLCR, but I don't want something up at 4-6k, where I may loose it with a high gust of wind.

I'd like to get some opinions (everyone has one). I've been looking at some of the Madcow kits, as I hear they make great kits, but not all of them seem to have directions. As this would be my first attempt with fiberglass, I want good directions. Their 4" fiberglass Rogue kit seems to be a good candidate, as it's fairly heavy (8 lbs), but I don't see a link on their site to directions or a RockSim file.

The Little John and Nike Smokes may be good options, but they are a few pounds lighter, and they are putting me at higher altitudes on J engines.

I'd love to do a 4" fiberglass V2, but it appears they don't make it anymore.

I know electronics bays aren't required for L2, nor is dual deployment, but I'm not opposed to it.

 

[SkyFire]

I like the Wildman kits. They are very well made and Wildman's customer service is great. Plus, they have a great selection of motors and other needed parts. Join their club and save $. Can't say the same about customer service from other vendors. Madcow rockets are made by Composite Warehouse and I have ordered kits from both. The last CW kit I ordered took 3 months to get (bought during Black Friday sale).
Here's the latest Wildman rocket I built:

 

[SILVERFOX]

Congrats on your L-1. With your fiberglass build follow all of David's points. Take your time and have fun building. DO mask up and put on disposable gloves as glass dust is nasty on skin and lungs. I'm sure you'll find the experience quite rewarding on the road to L-2. (Yes, the Wildman Kits are really slick) Good Luck!

 

[tmorgenthaler]

I like the Wildman kits. They are very well made and Wildman's customer service is great. Plus, they have a great selection of motors and other needed parts. Join their club and save $. Can't say the same about customer service from other vendors. Madcow rockets are made by Composite Warehouse and I have ordered kits from both. The last CW kit I ordered took 3 months to get (bought during Black Friday sale).
Here's the latest Wildman rocket I built:
View attachment 512791

Very sick looking. Well done!

 

[Zbench]

Not to be a contrarian, but you might consider some of the LOC heavier rockets in 54 mm. I’m working on a doorknob currently which I plan to launch with a K990 DM which sims to about 2500 feet. Seems like it would meet your requirements and concerns. I’m converting mine to do DD, but, it’s designed for motor eject.

 

[SkyFire]

A couple guys in my club have LOC Warlocks.
They fly low and slow and are fun to watch.

 

[tmorgenthaler]

A couple guys in my club have LOC Warlocks.
They fly low and slow and are fun to watch.
View attachment 512793

So many options…. So many things to the wife will kill me for buying

 

[David Schwantz]

I learned long ago, just take a block of balsa wood and sand over your new purchase, if she asks just say" see all the dust dear, I've had that forever. Love you".

 

[tmorgenthaler]

Not to be a contrarian, but you might consider some of the LOC heavier rockets in 54 mm. I’m working on a doorknob currently which I plan to launch with a K990 DM which sims to about 2500 feet. Seems like it would meet your requirements and concerns. I’m converting mine to do DD, but, it’s designed for motor eject.

Are you doing it with an e-bay? That one would be a nice low altitude L2.

edit: it would help if I reread what you said. I missed the Dual Deployment part!

 

[Grog6]

Dual deploy is the coolest thing I've found, in the last couple of years.
One of my low power flights launched on an e15, and I walked over and caught it 10 feet from the pad.

 

[thzero]

Design and build your own! You already proved you can take a nose cone, body with some fins and assembly it and shove a motor into it oh and I guess a parachute! Then make it go woosh and recover it.

 

[OverTheTop]

As somebody mentioned upthread, make sure you wash any FG parts before putting any tools onto them.

Read this thread. Good information there:

Properly bonding composites and what your government doesn't want you to know.

How to bond like a pro. I promised to write this article a few months ago after some conversations in this thread: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?56789-Sanding-Fiberglass-Tube I didn't start this thread to call out every one who has there own way of bonding. Bonds in rockets...

www.rocketryforum.com

You could also consider cardboard airframe, if it suits. Binder Design have some nice examples. I did L2 on a Velociraptor:

Binder Design

www.binderdesign.com

 

[Titan II]

One more thread recommendation. Justin is a top notch builder and you can learn a lot about glass construction in this thread. Now I will shut up.

Composite Warehouse 5" Bullpup or Concept 125 (54mm x 3) - Which one needs built first?

www.rocketryforum.com

 

[green dragon]

LOC Magnum for L2 .... can fly L1 or L2, draggy and big... flies H to L , no worries.

 

[Ryangengler]

I will throw a recommendation for Mike’s kits at MAC. He gives pretty detailed instructions and has every option if you want motor deploy, dual deploy…. The canvas also is great to build with. I am doing my level 2 with a dual deploy scorpion with the upgraded nosecone. Give him an email or call and he is always responsive.

 

[thzero]

Sorry, at level 2 if you need instructions...

 

[Ryangengler]

Was only replying and trying to be helpful based on the original post. Thanks.

 

[jmasterj]

I just did my L2 on a 4" MAC Performance bird, J270 to just under 3000', used a JLCR. I really like the canvas phenolic.

 

[Pete.D]

I did my L2 using a Katana on a J; I had to keep it below 2500 ft so I ballasted it to 9 lbs and reached 2200 ft with motor eject at about 1900 ft. The stock chute partially shredded but suffered no further damage landing in a soft field. If I had to do it again I’d substitute a stronger chute.

I don’t recommend using electronic deployment for an L2 attempt; the best option when faced with altitude limitations would be as large a diameter as possible: at least 4 inches. Ballast worked for me but beware the subsequent additional deployment stresses.