K'Tesh's OpenRocket files...

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K'Tesh

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Here's a kit that I greatly wish I had the opportunity to pick up back in the day... Still do. The Estes SKY-HI (1365):



I almost hate releasing this sim, as it'll likely drive up demand for the few kits out there, but Damn... it's too sexy just to sit on my computer.

OK, the tricks played for this one... It has 24 fins... Yup!!! 24. Because every fin has a decal, and the decals are mirrored, I needed to double the fins. However, without the decals on one side, it'd look... well... weird. So, the balsa fins don't have decals, and the air fins have been offset to display the decals properly. I've attached the air fins to PBTs for easy deletion to allow for flight performance simulations.

Instructions, fins and decals came from JimZ's site.
http://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/est1365.htm
 

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K'Tesh

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Ok Hojo fans... I'm going to release this unfinished sim of the Estes Honest John (1919), perhaps it'll shake something I need loose.

upload_2019-11-17_23-24-38.png




Since it's unfinished, the image is also unfinished. Here's the rub... No decals. It's done other than that. I need a scan (with a ruler) or a clear photograph (along with some indication of scale) of the markings for this kit so that I can fake it... A stencil font shouldn't be to hard to acceptably reproduce (at least "good enough for government use").

Here it is HoJo fans... The Estes Honest John (7240):



This one is a bear to to deal with... But, it doesn't have any tricks that would adversely affect the flight characteristics. I did adjust the location of the Laser Cut Index Stock, and the forward LL. The instructions call for placements that are based off of the location of the rear LL, instead of the back of the body tube. But the images don't match that, and it looks odd to me placed in the sim. This will get updated again when I've worked out how to sim the fins a little better. In the Developer's version of OR, I could get the wedge on the fins done right, but I'm uncertain about 15.03.

Thanks to John Boren for the info on the laser cut index stock (Mine got damaged).

Watch this space for the Estes Maxi Brute Honest John (Thanks Les!!!)

These sims are dedicated to lowga
 

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Funkworks

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Ok Hojo fans...
Seeing how far apart the CP and CG are is enough to convince me it's safe to glue a baffle in there (and of course, there's plenty of room for nose weight later if needed). Painting the .ork file olive would make it one step close to complete I would think.
 

neil_w

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I have to say, the paint scheme on the SKY-HI fins is fabulous.
 

K'Tesh

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Painting the .ork file olive would make it one step close to complete I would think.
It's "painted"... I've been asking for info on the decals for months... No dice. However, Les's gift of the Maxi Brute, and your inquiries have prompted me to release the sim "unfinished". Trust me, once I get the needed decal info, I'll update the sim, and post the finished sim.
 

K'Tesh

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I have to say, the paint scheme on the SKY-HI fins is fabulous.
I know... It's just so... SEXY!!!

Problem is that Estes discontinued that version of the PNC-50Y, and the white decals are a real pain for people who are looking to clone it. I'd love to see them recreate the nosecone, and keep the new version too. Different shapes for different projects.
 

K'Tesh

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Another Estes/Hobby Lobby exclusive has been blowing up Facebook... The Estes Vapor (7294):



This kit has something I truly hate... Pastel colors... Picking that yellow and white out of the pale blue backing paper in the scans I got from Robert Spillane have kicked my butt. It took several false starts, but I finally managed to extricate the yellow and black livery's decals out. The purple's livery is taking longer (pale blue and white on pale blue backing paper... oh joy.. o_O)

The only real "Trick" is air fins for the decals on one side of two separate fins. I've attached them to a PBT for easy deletion for flight sims.
Please support our vendors by buying yours, and not cloning it.

If you haven't spotted it yet, this kit is a sister kit to the Estes Pro Series II Star Orbiter.
Thanks to Robert Spillane for the scans, Neil W for the black and yellow splatter graphic, and John Boren for his cool design and answers to my questions.

The Estes Pro Series II Star Orbiter (9716)



Well, I thought it took seven months to finally get the fins needed to sim the sister kit... Only to realize that I had been sent them with the decals (I didn't spot them until after I was literally writing this edit to the post). :facepalm: Sorry Bill. One benefit in the delay though: It got the better looking motor retainer set I whipped up a few weeks ago.

A 29mm powered, BT-60 design. This is a pretty simple kit actually. The main differences between it and the vapor is the motor mount, the fins, decals, and the launch lugs. Sure, the rear body tube of the Orbiter is slotted, but other than that they're very close. The color I was attempting to match would be Competition Orange, which now is often seen on sports cars in recent years, and the 1978 Porsche 928 owned by my late Step-Father, Sidney E. Ainsworth.

No "tricks" on this sim need to be removed for flight performance data. The only "tricks" I put in were a couple of inner tubes that were colored to make the launch lug's white interiors disappear (they have zero mass, and zero impact on aerodynamic calculations), and the inner tubes used to simulate the appearance of the retainer. OpenRocket Hack: When the fins are black, and so is the body tube, the joint tends to hide in some "lighting" conditions. By making the fins a very dark, almost black, grey, they come back into view.



Thanks to Bill (Luzwingnut) Toby Vanderbeek, Joe Mores, and John Boren for their contributions to the sim of this kit.
 

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neil_w

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I look forward to seeing the results of the first attempt to recreate that paint job in real life...
 

K'Tesh

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I look forward to seeing the results of the first attempt to recreate that paint job in real life...
Robert Spillane, who was the first person I saw to purchase one from Hobby Lobby and share photos of it on FB has finished his with the yellow and black paint scheme...

Here's what he did with it.



I'm thinking that perhaps painting the yellow body tube black first, then masking the black (with wax?) and painting the yellow might be the way to get the look of the facecard. However, that violates all the rules I've read about painting... Typically, you paint the dark colors after the light colors.

Now as people have two versions of paint and decals, it's possible to combine them... Take the yellow and black's decals from the kit you buy to do the purple and use those on the "back" of the rocket, and vice versa.
 

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Another Estes/Hobby Lobby exclusive has been blowing up Facebook... The Estes Vapor (7294):



This kit has something I truly hate... Pastel colors... Picking that yellow and white out of the pale blue backing paper in the scans I got from Robert Spillane have kicked my butt. It took several false starts, but I finally managed to extricate the yellow and black livery's decals out. The purple's livery is taking longer (pale blue and white on pale blue backing paper... oh joy.. o_O)

The only real "Trick" is air fins for the decals on one side of two separate fins. I've attached them to a PBT for easy deletion for flight sims.

If you haven't spotted it yet, this kit is a sister kit to the Estes Pro Series II Star Orbiter (coming as soon as I get the fins and decal scan's I've asked for).

Please support our vendors by buying yours, and not cloning it.

Thanks to Robert Spillane for the scans, Neil W for the black and yellow splatter graphic, and John Boren for his cool design and answers to my questions.
I cant make out on the picture the CP on the Vapor. Can someone please tell me what the CP is?
Thanks
 

John Taylor

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Ok looks like I may have found the CP first the Vapor. 32.91" from the front, which makes it less stable compared to the S.O. at 38.15" probably due to the fin design.
So by building the aft end heavier by making plywood fins and using epoxy, I may have to add nose weight. I'll know more when I get home from work. I'll post the results.
 

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Interestingly, these are the numbers I get in OpenRocket...

Screen Shot 2019-12-03 at 9.06.15 PM.png
 

K'Tesh

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Here's a new sim for a new kit... Aerotech's Mega Initiator:



This is based on the physical sample the people at Aerotech were kind enough to send me. All measurements are based on that sample. There were some discrepancies in the instructions which I been informed that have been corrected. My tubes were 15" long and 27" long instead of what the instructions had listed (12" and 28"). The sim will need to have the PBT with the air fins deleted to get the correct flight performance numbers.

In discussions with Aerotech about the replacement body tubes for the ones that were damaged in shipping (despite Aerotech's excellent packaging attempt). I was told that the error in the instructions on the dimensions of the body tubes will be addressed, and the final lengths are 15" long for the payload tube, and 28" long for the booster's tube. As such, a new sim was called for to reflect the changes in the design.



Like the shorter, early production version, there are air fins attached to a PBT that need to be deleted for correct flight performance numbers.

FWIW: I've also simmed this with a dummy engine (54/1706) to get the Z-Clips correct. I loved doing the "knurling" on that (it's there).



Remember to support our manufacturers and vendors by buying from them... This is available wherever Aerotech is sold.

The 29mm and 38mm adapters will be posted soon.

Thanks to Charlie, Dane, Gary, and all the rest of the folks at Aerotech!

Remember: The Early Production Version is the shorter version that uses a 27" long and 15" long body tube, whereas the Production Version has a 28" long and 15" long body tubes.
Previous version of the sim was downloaded 34 times.
 

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K'Tesh

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This was a pretty quick little sim... The FlisKits Cheetah (MS001)



The Cheetah is a two stage kit that is back in production again. There are no "tricks" that will really adversely effect the flight characteristics on this sim. The only tricks involved were those needed to exteriorize the Kevlar shock cord. I don't believe that the shock cord will be factored in the sim's drag results, but there was no other way to reproduce the manner in which the shock cord is routed. One mod I'd suggest, adding a couple pieces of silver mylar (from a space blanket, candy bar, or balloon) to the tips of the streamer to improve the odds of recovering the rocket on a sunny day.

If you want to score one (or more) of these, please go to wherever FlisKits are sold. Remember to support our manufacturers and vendors.

Thanks to Robert Spillane for his scans and measurements, and to the fine folks at FlisKits for allowing me to share this with you.
 

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K'Tesh

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It's time to face reality my friends... It's not exactly the FlisKits A.C.M.E. Spitfire (FK SP007)



I've been working on this for weeks... This is the results of the 3rd draft. However, knowing my luck, I'll have some kind of computer foul up just before Christmas. It's all tricks, there's no chance at getting valid flight info from this sim, nor could you clone the kit with what I've got here. Also, a fully accurate Spitfire is not possible in OR, in 15.03, or the upcoming update. This is as close as it can be done without adding another 1009 fins to fix the nosecone, and an additional 697 fins to fix the top of the uppermost body tube segment (I'm *NOT* kidding here). An accurate outline in sim form would take 5888 fins in addition to the 4 blue ones.

In a conversation with Neil W, I realize that there's another way to do this, with a more accurate appearance and a LOT more math.

FYI: The A.C.M.E. Spitfire is back in production from FlisKits. Score your own here:
http://www.fliskits.com/WPRESS/product/acme-spitfire/

Or wherever FlisKits is sold.


Merry Christmas!
 

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Funkworks

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Well, it looks good, but yeah, what a great project it would be to upgrade OpenRocket's code to handle asymmetries like this! (i.e. be involved in future versions). A lot of work for not many rockets though.
 

Luzwingnut

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Hey K'Tesh, Noticed this on your Post# 488.
QUOTE: "Estes Pro Series II Star Orbiter (coming as soon as I get the fins and decal scan's I've asked for)".

I've got one of these still in the bag if you're still needing to model it.

Regards.
 

K'Tesh

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Hey K'Tesh, Noticed this on your Post# 488.
QUOTE: "Estes Pro Series II Star Orbiter (coming as soon as I get the fins and decal scan's I've asked for)".

I've got one of these still in the bag if you're still needing to model it.

Regards.
Yup! I still need them in order to finish that sim. Please send them to me in a PM.

All The Best!
 

K'Tesh

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Ok guys... I got updated info on the Aerotech Mega Initiator, My sample had a 27" body tube and a 15" body tube. I've been informed that the new production run will have 28" and 15" body tubes. As such, my file is outdated for anyone who gets the new one. So, I've created a new one for the longer version.



I've also corrected an error in the older file (cosmetic only). So, if you're one of the 34 people who downloaded the old version, please download the new "Early Production Version" to get the best appearance of the sim (no more "ININITIATOR" 'decals').

Files can be found in post 496.
 

Alan R

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Well, it looks good, but yeah, what a great project it would be to upgrade OpenRocket's code to handle asymmetries like this! (i.e. be involved in future versions). A lot of work for not many rockets though.
This is the 80/20 rule of programming. You spend 80% of your coding time writing, debugging and tweaking those bits of code that are only used 20% of the time by 20% of the customers.
 

K'Tesh

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Today's addition is the Centuri Magnum Sprint (5356).



Measurements were provided by 77fair (David), and the instructions, fin templates, and decals were scanned by Earl L. Cagle Jr.

Download the file here
 

K'Tesh

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Here's an olde... The Estes Astron Avenger (K-38)



Not only did the kit show up in 1969's Estes Catalog, I had this sim (mostly) done over two years ago, but somehow managed to forget about uploading it. Apogee just uploaded a video that featured the kit, which reminded me of the sim.

Here's the facts: Special tricks? None, they're straightforward kits. As such, these sims are ready to give flight performance details.

Originally, the fins were made from two different thicknesses of balsa. This is not a mistake. The booster's were 1/8" thick, and the sustainer's were 3/32". Fin dimensions were derived from the known length of the booster's body tube. By the time that the instructions found on Estes' website came out, the fins were changed to have a consistent 3/32" thickness, though they were still hand cut.

The kit definitely came in at least two variants, most likely more. In K-38 version of the kit's instructions (from JimZ's site), we can see that, like the first year of the Cherokee-D (K-47), it came with a BT-55V (16.35") body tube. At some time later it was stretched by having a full length (18") BT-55 body tube (from Estes' 1238 instructions). Another parallel to the Cherokee-D, the original version had the launch lug mounted on a wooden dowel standoff, which was sometime later removed. I suspect the change in length (and this is just a guess) occurred in 1971, coinciding with the Cherokee-D's discontinued use of the BT-55V.

The markings of the K-38 sim are based on the 1971 Estes Catalog. The markings of the 1238 sim are from the instructions found on Estes's site. The 1971 catalog has a length consistent with the original version, and again like the Cherokee-D, the length was never updated despite the addition of over 1 1/2" at some time. My photographic analysis of the catalog shows that the length of the catalog models never changed, and likely were just recycled photos of the same model found in the 1971 catalog. An oddity in the catalog model is that the launch lug appears in several catalogs. I've seem to remember reading somewhere that many of the catalog models didn't actually have launch lugs applied.

Sometime before it stopped production in 1981, it changed from a BNC-50Y to the blow molded version of the PNC-50Y nosecone. The style of parachutes also changed as the kit evolved over time.



The instructions for the K-38 version are available from JimZ's site.
The instructions for a later 1238 version can be found on Estes' website.
I'm certain that there are more than two variants of this kit out there. I'm looking for instructions that don't match either JimZ's site or or are found on Estes' site (though new ones of JimZ's would be nice too).

Laser cut fins are available from eRockets.
The blowmolded PNC-50Y nosecone can now be found in the Estes Tazz kit, but you'll need least two of them ('cause the Tazz looks like a ton of fun). I'd try either eRockets or BMS for the balsa nosecone.
 

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K'Tesh

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After doing the Avenger (K-38), I remembered that there were other kits that had silver parts that I hadn't been able to do justice to in the past. With that, I've started updating some of the older sims in the inventory. First up was my favorite... The Estes Omega (K-52P/1200) variants.



I've shifted the .ork files for these kits into post #3 (from post #1). Most updates are simply adding part numbers, but a few minor tweaks have been done (adding a missing screw eye here or there, thinning down the standoff to 3/32" for the version seen above). You might want to download them again, but again these are minor changes, save for the appearance. I've also added some additional observations about the earliest K-52P images out there.

Expect that many of the older sims with silver in their livery will likely be updating as I get time to do them. I'll also be bringing them up to my current standard (adding part names/numbers per the instructions where applicable).
 

K'Tesh

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Today's additions are a new one from Vander-Burn Rocketry, the Cherokee-H, and a mod to make it an upscale of the Cherokee-D (1247)



The Cherokee-H is based on the Cherokee-E at a 3" diameter. It's really a nice kit. The measurements in this sim were taken from an actual sample that was provided to me. You'll also likely recognize some of the renders on the instructions from this thread (way back on the first page). Kit includes: laser cut fins and centering rings, an included baffle, slotted body tube, decals from Stickershock, 29mm motor retainer, 30" chute, 500 lb Kevlar shock cord, the required hardware for connecting up the recovery gear, and your choice of rail buttons or launch lugs (or both). Basically, except for finishing supplies, and glues, it's a pretty complete package. Rather than going with the black, blue, and white color scheme, Toby opted to go with black, red, and white to reflect the Cherokee-D's markings.



The sim has the marking's placements based on the Cherokee-E. So, don't blame me for the CP and CG markings being reversed... That's how they appeared on the "E's" instructions. For flight performance data, you'll need to delete the PBT with the "Air Fins". As the current version of OR doesn't support rail buttons, I opted to go with the launch lugs in "stock" locations.

Now for the mod to upscale it to a 3" version of the Cherokee-D (1247)



Now there's a couple of ways of upscaling, you can upscale by length or by diameter. I chose to sim the latter. The instructions state that you should remove 10" from the body tubes. For an upscale based on the diameter, I'd recommend trimming the longer (34") tube down to 30 ²⁵⁄₃₂" long, and the shorter (21.5") tube down to 10 ¹³⁄₆₄. This gives a correct length for an upscaled 18" long BT-55, and allows the bottom of the larger wrap to conceal the joint. The nosecone is not a perfect match to an upscaled PNC-55AC, but for this kit it's a good choice at 10.937" long. Those who want to make or commission an upscaled nosecone will need it to be 12.52" long. The fins are not an exact match to the Cherokee-D (as they were based on the slightly smaller Cherokee-E's fins), but again you get the right feeling with the supplied fins. The forward launch lug was placed just behind the joint in the body tubes, where I'd recommend splitting the rocket for a zipperless recovery system. Decal placement was based on the Cherokee-D (1247)'s markings.

In the near future, I'll be simming an upscale of the shorter K-47 version of the Cherokee-D. But for now, I can tell you that the combined length of the body tubes should be 37 ⁷⁄₃₂".

Thanks to Toby Vanderbeek!
 

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