K'Tesh's OpenRocket files...

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K'Tesh

OpenRocket Chuck Norris
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If you're new to my OR files, WELCOME! Repeat visitor? WELCOME BACK!!! There's been some changes.

First I'll start off with my Public Service Announcement...

As you're about to see, I'm always looking for resources on old and new kits so that I can sim them in OpenRocket, or (hopefully) build or clone them someday. I'm sure that a lot of others are too.

When you've got an old kit, please check to see if the instructions, fins, and decals are archived either at plans.rocketshoppe.com, or JimZ's site. If what you're building isn't there, or are somehow different, or the image they have lacks any kind of reference to it dimensions (including thickness), is bad (e.g. diecrushed fins), or they only have is a drawing of the fins, I'd ask you to scan yours with a ruler, and post them either here, at YORF, or at TRC (preferably all 3). Photos are good for documentation. But scans are far easier to gather information from.

Tags:
Did you know that Estes has changed its tags over the years? Sure! Who doesn't? Those tags can be really helpful for a BAR in IDing the variant they want (either on Ebay, or trying to clone). Including that information will help a lot of people.

Instructions:
The longer a kit has been in production, the more likely that it has somehow evolved over time... Especially the older kits. Hand cut balsa gave way to diecut (crushed) fins. Balsa nosecones were replaced with plastic, then balsa, then plastic again. Shapes of nosecones evolved over time. Engine mounts have changed locations and sizes (Remember the short-lived short E motor Estes had back in the 90s?). Decals change on occasion (and not always for the better... (Estes Wizard)). Even body tubes have changed lengths (There's the Cherokee D with the 16.35" body tube that was later changed to a 18" body tube). All these changes lead to a plethora of variants (I'm looking at you Big Bertha... Alpha... and especially YOU, Omega!), and there's always a chance that someone that is out there that is looking to create that rocket that they got (or didn't get) for Christmas, or their birthday that year. You'll help them (and me) if you can scan those instructions.

Fins:
Many times I've found that the drawings of a rocket's fins are off. Tracings outlined from them often causes them to become too large, or the angle or lengths that were given by the person doing it was off. There's nothing quite as frustrating as spending time trying to recreate your old favorite (including wasting valuable decals), only to have your eye constantly drawn to something that just seems... Off. Then to find that your resource didn't proof the drawing or measurements. RocketReviews.com has more than its fair share of really bad .rkt files and poorly simmed fin templates.

Decals:
These things are gold... Nothing can bring a rocket to life quite as much as the colorful decals that came with a kit. Sure, there are those who don't want to have a cookie cutter version of their rocket (and more power to them). However, often it's the markings that drew many of us to a specific design. It'll help a whole lot of old BARs recapture that feeling of having an old rocket that they lost to time, or scratch that itch they had when they weren't able to buy/build the kit of their childhood dreams. Again, keep in mind that the longer the kit's been in production, the more chance that there have been changes to the decals.

Scans:
I've found that .png and .tif files are much more reliable for creating useful tracings of in making my .ork files. However, sometimes my browser doesn't like .tif files, making them a pain sometimes. Pdf files are great (sometimes), but I can't always right click and copy an image, making them a source of frustration as well occasionally. Then there's .jpgs. Jpegs are common, but extremely problematic for me. Unfortunately, my skills with high power (read: expensive, or feature laden) image processing software is very limited (by my knowledge on how to use them, or ability to purchase more intuitive versions). Jpeg files compress images in a manner that frequently makes finding edges a royal PITA. Toss in a curved edge, and the frustration only increases. DPI? Maximize this. 300 is good, 600 is better. Please remember to have a ruler in your scan, as well as indicating thickness of balsa, or other flat parts (oddball centering rings and the like). A Digital Micrometer is a very useful tool to have for gauging thicknesses. They aren't really expensive (mine was less than $20 USD at Harbor Freight (I brought mine with me to China)), and I'm sure you'll find it useful for other things once you've got one.

Thanks!
Jim

Now a caution (yeah, you should read the fine print)...
NOTICE: My .ork files are intended to give the user the most accurate possible VISUAL simulation needed to create for themselves an exact as possible clone of the original rocket. Due to my use of "Phantom body tubes" and "Fin decals" to place things like launch lugs, stand-offs, engine hooks, decals, etc., the performance of the simulation will most likely NOT match the actual rocket. As such, it is up to the end user to update the downloaded file to suit their needs for flight performance.

I take ownership of my files. I often improve them as I can, when I can. Please look for messages in the individual posts for edits that indicate that I've changed things. Sometimes these are for more accurate appearance, other times it's to implement new techniques I've developed that will improve the accuracy of the sim's visuals AND flight performance. As such, I sometimes will ask you to toss an old .ork file and download a fresh one.

NEW AND IMPROVED!!! The index has been split off and placed in its own thread. I had to... I couldn't update it because it's too big now. However, it's also been re-arranged for a better search experience.


Now that that's out of the way... On With the show!!!

Previous version of Cineroc w/Omega viewed 40x, Cineroc w/Omega (Mod) viewed 95x, 1970 catalog version viewed 51x, 1971 catalog version viewed 52x, K-52P version viewed 91x, K-52 (Cineroc booster version) viewed 85x
 

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K'Tesh

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It's time to get things started... It's time to light the lights...

Ok, it feels like I've created one or two (hundred) Open Rocket files. I think it's time I go ahead and start posting the sims of the rockets in one place (as well as their scattered associated builds).

These will be as accurate as I can possibly make them. Modifications will be noted (I like redshifting things...)

So, with that, what to be my first file... Hmmm.....




The Cineroc Movie Camera and Omega (K-52)(Without Payload Section):

The Cineroc was probably one of the most desired rockets out there back-in-the-day (maybe even more so now). Mint condition versions of the Cineroc can sell for hundreds of dollars on Ebay. The camera was designed by Mike Dorffler, and was introduced to the Estes lineup in 1970 beside the Cherokee D. The camera operates on two N cell batteries that were included with the Super 8mm film packets. Users would load the film cartridges, install the batteries, then have only a few seconds once the camera was started to get the rocket into the air. The cartridges were then sent into Estes for developing (if not done at home in a dark room), and the film was returned to the filmmaker.

At least two versions of the camera were made (the earlier version lacked gussets at the joints with the battery's bulkhead, and the plate that attached it to the aft transition). Due to difficulties in film developing, as well as sourcing motors, and lenses, the Cineroc was discontinued in 1975. Users could modify their Cineroc by using an eyebolt added to the nosecone to get horizontal or "look down" views as the rocket returned under parachute.

There have been some famous (in and out of the hobby) people associated with the Cineroc, besides its designer and Vern Estes, including Herb Desind (who apparently bought hundreds (if not thousands) of them), author and one of the founding fathers of the hobby G. Harry Stine, and Apollo 11 astronaut Michael Collins. It is my hope to motivate Estes to bring back the Omega, along with a 21's century update to the camera (or a shell suitable for Makers to do so).







The Omega (K-52)(without payload section) kit made it's first and only photographed appearance as a stand-alone product in the 1970 Catalog on page 99 (alongside the K-52P (payload version) kit). In that catalog, the only decals visible on both kits was the black and blue fin decals. The K-52 was sold as a stand alone kit until 1972 when it made it's last appearance in the catalog. Presumably, the K-52 was what was bundled with the Cineroc for the duration of its run, but I haven't confirmed that yet.







The catalog photo of the Cineroc/Omega Combination Offer (RC-8), found on page 49 of the 1974 catalog, showed a decal that had been seen on some Omega kits in some of the previous years' catalogs Omega offerings. Apparently, this decal was never included in any kit sold. Careful observers may have noticed that it looks like the booster had separated slightly (perhaps 1/4") from the sustainer in the photo. It appears that the same photo (slightly reoriented) was used in the 1975 catalog, when the Cineroc made it's last appearance. Below is my interpretation of the model in those photos. This is the version I am trying to recreate. The blue color of the decals was averaged from a sample from a scan of an actual fin decal. Tango Papa may be a source for the fin decals, along with the white Cineroc decal, and the body tube decal.

Recommended engines for the Two Stage flights: D13-0 Booster, D13-7 Upper, Using D13-5 for payloads over 5 oz. Single Stage: D13-5. As I've only seen the early versions of the instructions, I'm not sure if the instructions were updated to reflect later motor recommendations, but presumably they were changed in 1972 when the K-52P's motors were changed.




The Estes CinerocDV and Omega Project

This is my project to update the Cineroc to digital video (hence the DV suffix) and redshift the Omega. Here is what my concept of the camera and the rocket will look like with decals from Tango Papa. Externally, the only differences are the markings and the launch lug (increased from a 1/8" to a 3/16" launch rod). Inside however, the camera would have an 808 #16 camera mounted inside the camera body instead of the Super8 film camera designed by Mike Dorffler. The rocket will be updated to allow it to use 24mm "E" motors and have TTW fins.


Doug Bertelsen and Boyce Aerospace Hobbies have worked on the 3D printing of the camera. I'm hoping that the files will be posted for everyone to enjoy soon.

Estes CinerocDV and Omega (Redshifted)(Modified 1974 Catalog Photo Markings)


The file for this is found in post #2, as I've reached the limit for attachments in this post already.
 
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K'Tesh

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The Omega (K-52P/1200)

Now these following images are of sims I've created of the various incarnations of the payload version of the Astron Omega (as it was called in 1970). For these, I went ahead with the standoffs (1/8" thick without the cardstock guides for the "C" rail, and 3/32" for those with the cardstock guides (per instructions)), but I didn't add the rail guides in most cases. The first is modeled on the 1970 catalog version of the Omega (which used a BNC-60AH (balsa) nosecone), the second shows it in the 1971 catalog livery, the third shows the early (two-piece, injection molded) PNC-60AH nosecone, and the fourth is modeled on the later (one-piece, blow molded) PNC-60AH (plastic) nosecone. Thanks to scigs30, I've confirmed that it was issued with the two-piece PNC-60AH nosecone (injection molded in white), but have yet to locate a scan of that version's instructions. That said, if you look at the scans of the instructions on JimZ's website, the k-52a.tif image seems to show a black two-piece PNC-60AH nosecone (minus the base and eye bolt) (thanks to Mike Toelle for pointing that out). scigs30's build on YORF clearly has the base included, and other comments from people who build one "back in the day" bears this out (that and, photos of kits for sale on Ebay also show it included), but the instructions seen in the k-52e.tif and k-52f.tif clearly show the one-piece nosecone. One thing to note is that the original balsa nosecone appears to be a blunted elliptical shape, compared to the blunted ogive shape of the later plastic nosecones.

The stock paint scheme for the 1970 Catalog version had the payload section painted white, just like the rest of the model. In my examination of the painting instructions there was no color recommendation for balsa nosecone. I'm now fairly certain it was painted some kind of silver or aluminum color. But as it was photographed in black and white it's nearly impossible to tell 100%. Also of note the engine hook and motor were visible in both the photograph found in instructions and the catalog, but built stock, the engine hook is supposed to be flush with the back of the body tube. Also, again in the instructions and the catalog, the launch lugs were not visible. It should be said that there was photograph of the K-52 version w/o the payload bay and nosecone that didn't have launch lugs or a protruding motor/engine hook visible. The sim that the image below was taken from follows the instructions, with the engine hook in line with the launch lugs.




In 1971 the paint scheme changed and the catalog had color photographs. The nosecone was black, and the payload section was painted silver. The catalog photo also had a decal on the sustainer body tube that read "cineroc OMEGA" and included the Estes logo. However, that decal was apparently never shipped out with any version of the Omega or Cineroc. There was no photograph or painting of the K-52 (w/o payload section) version in the 1971 or 1972 catalogs. The 1972 photo of the K-52P was the same as the 1971, however the image was cropped to eliminate the Astron Delta rocket that was next to it when it was photographed. Unlike the previous catalog (and later catalogs) the rocket was sitting on its bottom, and there was no gap between the sustainer and the booster. The new sim now has more details (part numbers), an improved shape to the nosecone (it's not perfect, but I can't figure out how to make it better w/o an actual sample), and a "chrome" finish to the payload section.



The recommended motors for the OMEGA (K-52P) also changed over time. From 1970 to 1971 the recommended motors were as follows: Two Stage flights: D13-0 Booster, D13-7 Upper, Using D13-5 for payloads over 5 oz. Single Stage: D13-5. Beginning in 1972 and continuing on until its last appearance as kit number 1200 in 1980 the recommended motors were changed to the D12-0 Booster, D12-7 Upper, using D12-5 for payloads over 5 oz. Single Stage: D12-5

Beginning with the 1973 catalog, the shape of the nosecone may have changed to its near-final look (it appears to be a painting, and not a photograph). According to my measurements of an injection molded cone compared to a a PNC-60AH from the 1980s, the exposed length of the earlier injection molded nosecone is 2mm shorter than the later blow molded nosecone. The cineroc/OMEGA decal didn't appear on the payload version (found on page 30), or the drawing of the Omega (without the Cineroc payload) found on page 50. The new sim (below) has a corrected nosecone length, "silver" payload section, and part numbers.



In the 1974 and all following catalogs, the nosecone's shape still had a blunted ellipsoid appearance to it, but it's clear the at some time the rocket changed. First to an injection molded plastic nosecone (either in black (with a yellow hang tag) or in white (unknown hang tag color)). Then later to a one-piece blow-molded nosecone in white plastic.

Also in the 1974 catalog, the Cineroc/Omega decal made its appearance in photos again, this time with the actual camera/rocket combo on page 49, whereas Omega's payload version didn't (on page 30). Additionally, beginning in 1974, the catalog image of the Omega (still K-52P) took on the purplish hue to the fin decals that some claim that it was shipped with. However, I have yet to find any evidence (e.g.: actual decal sheet, photograph, or scan), of the decals showing that they had ever been actually changed to purple.

In 1975, the Omega was now kit #1200, and the decals looked as half blue (left side) half purple (right side). Like the 1974 catalog, the Omega appears with the Cineroc, and has the body tube decal, whereas the Omega w/o the Cineroc didn't. There is also a noticeable gap (dark band) between the sustainer and the booster in all the following catalogs that the Omega appeared in. All subsequent appearances looked to be derived from the same image as the 1975 catalog. In 1977, 78, and 79, there's a photograph of a couple ?20-somethings? (in bell bottoms) launching an Omega. Its nosecone looks to be the familiar PNC-60AH shape that it is today. The final appearance of the Omega was in 1980.



Theoretically, a K-52P wouldn't need a standoff if it was only intended to fly just the payload section and not the Cineroc, but that wouldn't be stock, and I've seen no evidence that suggests that Estes ever altered the instructions to remove any mention of the Cineroc.

The SEMROC Omega (KV-64)

Carl McLawhorn created Semroc's Retro Reproduction of the Omega, and released it as the KV-64. His version was not a true clone, and included changes to the fins (laser cutting, dimensions and adding fin tabs (to reduce roll during flights)), launch lugs (to accommodate 3/16" launch rods) , and a redshift to a 24mm x 95mm ("E") motors. The Semroc version also featured a payload section that was designed to resemble the Cineroc. They also offered, separately, a (non-stock) payload section which would strongly resemble the 1970 or 1971 version of the Estes Omega (depending on the builder's choice in paint scheme). Their Omega also includes a decal for the body tube. The instructions also show that the Semroc logo as above the name "OMEGA", however the provided decals have it located below. The fin decals also are a noticeably darker blue color than the Estes decals. The yellow bands, while appearing on the instructions were not included as decals in the kit, nor does the instructions specify their widths. I went with 1/4" bands. I was lucky enough to actually talk to Carl and Sheryl about the kit, shortly before he passed away. I'd also like to say "Thanks" to the current owner of Semroc, Randy Boadway (eRockets.biz) for his support of this sim.



Previous version of the K-52P (1970 Catalog version) was viewed 272 times, the K-52P (1971 Catalog Version) was viewed 237 times and the previous version of the 1200 (Late (One-Piece) PNC-60AH) was viewed 217 times. The Semroc Omega (KV-64) was viewed 233 times.
 

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K'Tesh

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Here's my latest .ork file... The Estes Mean Machine (1295) (E Powered Mod)



There are 4 versions of the Mean Machine. In the 1980's it had white decals, in the 90's they changed to blue, then in 2007, an E powered, yellow decaled version was released. Now, Estes has re-released the kit in a new blue and white livery. I suspect the only difference between first two versions was the decal color. I'm still researching them. Apparently, the kit wasn't adapted to take the short lived 3 1/2" long E motors (from 1995 to 1996).



The last version included a Twist Lock Coupler that allowed the rocket to be broken down for transportation.

To simulate the fin decals on the one side only required the use of "Air Fins". Delete the Phantom Body Tube (aka PBT) from the file to increase the sim's flight characteristics accuracy.

If you're looking for the Twist Lock Coupler, I've got it as a stand alone .ork file now, and am still trying to update the sims for stock versions of the other two releases of the Mean Machine.



Estes Mean Machine colors through the years:

Black and white (ca 1978-1992)
Black and blue (ca 1993-2004)
Black and yellow (ca 2007-2013)
White and blue (2018-present)

Thanks to JumpJet, Gary Byrum, T-Rex, and Lowpuller for their help with the E powered version.
Prior to moving this post, the "E" powered Reissue was viewed 90 times, the "E" powered mod was viewed 21 times, and the Twist lock coupler was viewed 22 times.
 

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Sooner Boomer

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Any chance you could gather all the parts (nosecones, etc.) into a .zip file and post that? Possibly a follow-up of all the "complete rocket" sin files?

And thanks for all the work you've put in!
 

K'Tesh

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W www.rocketreviews.Com is a better place for this IMHO.
Problem is... I don't like RocketReviews interface (I haven't been able to make things appear like I want), and it doesn't have much support for .ork files. I also REALLY don't like the way .rkt files appear in OR (everything is blue in the 3D view).


Another trio of recent sims are the stock version of the Estes Vigilante (1278)(thought it looks like I might have used the wrong yellow for the fins, I checked, and it's only the way the simulation's light is oriented), my redshifted version of it (D/E Powered, W/Payload), and the BT-60 upscale (again D/E Powered, w/Payload Section).



[EDIT] Thanks to the lack of launch lug stand-offs, engine hooks, and fin decals, the (Stock, Decaled).ork version has no error messages, and can be used for simulating flight characteristics without any oddities.

Estes Vigilante (1278)(24mm Powered Mod)(Accurate Fins)


Estes Vigilante (1278)(BT-60 Upscale, 24mm Powered Mod)(Accurate Fins)


Previous version of the stock Vigilante's .ork file was downloaded 94 times.
Prior to having to move this post, the stock version of the .ork was viewed 128 times, the 24mm powered redshift was viewed 199 times, and the BT-60 upscale was viewed 188 times.
 

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samb

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Problem is... I don't like RocketReviews interface (I haven't been able to make things appear like I want), and it doesn't have much support for .ork files. I also REALLY don't like the way .rkt files appear in OR (everything is blue in the 3D view).
To each his own. I could care less about the interface; I prefer RR for the easily searchable repository of files.

2015-03-03 09_51_45-OpenRocket Library - Estes.jpg
 

K'Tesh

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Any chance you could gather all the parts (nosecones, etc.) into a .zip file and post that? Possibly a follow-up of all the "complete rocket" sin files?

And thanks for all the work you've put in!

Glad to be able to share what I've done with people.

the .zip file issue... Not for some time. As I'm going through my files, I'm checking them against the instructions to make sure that they're correct. That takes time, and as I fix them, I can't keep deleting and uploading the .zip file after the corrections.

A prime example. It looks like I somehow botched the color of the stock Vigilante's fins. When I get home, I'll need to doublecheck that, then create an updated .jpg, and upload that and the corrected .ork... It's a lot of work, and adding the .zip to that would just be too much.
 

K'Tesh

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Estes Goblin (K-55) using the modern PNC-55AO (instead of the BNC-55AO).



I've updated the file to include the decals. To do this, I had to add a Phantom Body tube with "Air Fins". Deleting that PBT will make the sim useable for flight performance simulations.

Here's the Goblin (7237) rerelease:



You'll notice the major difference is how far the motor protrudes from the rear of the rocket.


Original version of the Goblin's.ork file was downloaded 115 times and the updated version was downloaded 204 times. The Estes Re-release was viewed 100 times.
 

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K'Tesh

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Tonight I'm adding in the Centuri Magnum D Hornet (5341):





[EDIT] I worked on this again recently. However, I'm not 100% on the decals dimensions, but since nobody has come forth with the correct dimensions, I'll go ahead with posting this, along with a message that they are a best guess only. Also, the decal on the yellow fin required an additional "air fin" to be able to display it properly. As such, it will be for decal alignment, and not flight performance, unless the end user deletes the "air fin".

Please also note that the Centuri Magnum D Hornet was shown in the 1981 and 1983 catalogs with a black band aft of the fins, but no decal was apparently included in the kit. The 1982 catalog didn't have the black band.

I've also added the Estes Hornet (3037) version of the Centuri classic here. The nosecone was changed from the PNC-55AC to the PNC-55AO, the fins were altered (and are now laser cut), and the motors were altered from 24mm "D" motors to 18mm motors. [/EDIT]



Fin dimensions were provided by John Boren, scans of the decals by sandeja1, and additional thanks goes out to hcmbanjo, and Icorinth for their help on this.

Due to the addition of one fin decal, I've added an "air fin" to simulate its appearance, the flight performance without it, or the simulated engine hook improved the projected altitude from 812 ft to 848 ft (which I edited into the image above). Deleting the phantom body tubes associated with the fin and the engine hook should provide accurate sim results.

Previous version of the Centuri Hornet downloaded 130 times
 

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K'Tesh

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I must be in a Centuri mood tonight... Here's the Centuri Spirit Of America (5344).



Finally managed to get decals on this little file. Made some tweaks to the fins (evened them up, and corrected the location), and updated the organization of the file to match my latest methods. I omitted the Centuri logo on the fins for a couple of reasons. First, they would have made me add "Air Fins" to get them to look right. Next, while they appeared in photos found in the catalog, face card, and instructions, they weren't included on the paint and decal instructions (see the image below). Finally, they weren't included in the kit.

Fins are cardstock (.050" thick), the nosecone is a listed as a PNC-92, but a part number search revealed it to be a blowmolded PNC-50Y. The launch lug really is 3" long, and the MMT protrudes 1/4" behind the body tube (Centuri seemed to liked doing that).

The only OR magic I did on this was to add the engine hook.

The old version of the .ork file is completely obsolete, and should be tossed.

Centuri Spirit Of America (5344) (paint and decal instructions).png

Thanks to SCIGS30, Woody's Workshop, and Doug Bertelsen for their help on this sim.

Previous version viewed 103 times.
 

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K'Tesh

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Tonight it's the Estes Camroc with the Camroc Carrier (1266)




To accommodate the transition from the camera to the body tube, I had to "chop" the body tube at the joint... It would obviously be one continuous body tube. Likewise to get the camera to sit on the rocket, I had to omit the aft transition of it. There's a comment in there for those who'd like to replicate that detail. In the latest version, I've changed the launch lugs to externalized "Inner tubes" which eliminates the PBT used for the old LLs. The altitude sims have increased from 243' to 302' thanks to that. There is an "Air Fin" for the decal, deleting that raised the altitude to 303'... Yup, one foot. The previous version of the sim is obsolete and should be tossed.


Since I did one... I should probably do the other... So, here's the Estes Camroc Carrier (1266)(Payload Version)



The nosecone is the two piece PNC-60L (Injection Molded). The clear plastic payload tube on my sample is 4 15/16" long, despite the part being listed as 5". Like the Camroc, I had to omit the rear conical portion of the transition from the payload section to get the payload section to sit on the rocket. A comment has been added with more details. In the updated version (decaled), I've redone the launch lugs to the new method. Altitude increased from 256' to 330'. The old version is completely obsolete and should be tossed.

The fins were scanned in (the launch lug standoffs weren't), and then I imported them into the freeform fins. However, as close as this is, there was some pixilation that I'm not about to even try to fix. So, if you want the most accurate fins, print the image below, and scale it to 1 15/16" at the root edge. As the instructions call for the fins and the standoffs to be airfoiled, I added that detail to the .ork file.

Estes Camroc Carrier Fin Template


Previous version of Camroc with Camroc Carrier downloaded 100 times, the payload version was downloaded 109 times.
 

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K'Tesh

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Ok, per my promise to TopRamen, I'll start uploading my egg lofters... First up... the EnerJet Egg Crate (KE-4). There were three versions of this rocket in the instructions, and from the catalog and photos, there may have been more than one nosecone options for it (or at least the prototype may have had a different nosecone).



I've simmed it with the minimum recommended payload (1.5 oz.), and now added "decals" to it. The dimensions on the decals are just guesses (I was hoping to model Steve Naquin's color scheme exactly, but it seems that he's stepped away from YORF for a while now). I left off the "EnerJet" decal from the fins as it would have required the addition of an "Air Fin" and this has no warnings or error messages. This should flight sim quite well as is. The previous version is also just as good, and you could still use it (but it lacks the decals).

The 5" payload version shows that it's unstable with the motor that was recommended. That said, this is a payload rocket, so presumably there was supposed to be some kind of nose weight that I haven't simmed in.



The last version had a 12" payload section, and like the 5" version, it sims out as unstable with a (recommended) F52-8 motor.



[EDIT] I just remembered something that I forgot... I wish I knew that the nosecone was not pre-sized for the Jumbo Egg. If you want the egg to fit inside that payload compartment, you need to trim the edges of the shoulder to allow for it to fit. Fortunately the problem was realized before I went out to the field, the egg was inside a plastic bag, and I remembered that very important saying...

"Don't put all your eggs in one basket."[/EDIT]

Previous version of the 2" Egg Lofter .ork was downloaded 106 times, the 5" payload version 98 times, and the 12" payload version 93 times.
 

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Rocketjunkie

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The 5" payload version shows that it's unstable with the motor that was recommended. That said, this is a payload rocket, so presumably there was supposed to be some kind of nose weight that I haven't simmed in.
Many of the Enerjet kits were unstable without payload. The Nike Smoke required the 'smoke' powder if using any motor larger than an E24. The Nike Ram was also unstable without payload. (Marginal on an E24.)
 

K'Tesh

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One of my favorite rockets is the Estes Magnum Payloader (2032). Here's what it looked like in stock configuration...

Estes Magnum Payloader (2032)(Stock)



[EDIT] A re-visit to this .ork file was called for when my skills with doing decals finally came up to meet the challenge... However, due to the nature of the writing on the fins, "air fins" were required. This messes up OR's ability to accurately simulate the flight performance. So, the decaled version is for looks only. Again, the decaled version (and their images) are not to be trusted for flight performance accuracy.[/EDIT]

The blue used in this sim is sampled from a scan of the actual decals found on plans.rocketshoppe.com (the actual blue that best matches the decals is Testors' Gloss Bright Blue (1210)), the grey details in the sim would actually be silver.


One thing that didn't grab me at the time, was the split fins, so I always built it with the gap between the fins filled, and altering the tip edge of the sustainer's fin. I liked the look, and you can see it here. I also redshifted the rocket so that it was a D booster to D sustainer (or D to E). Nice looking rocket, but unfortunately one lawndarted, and the other was destroyed when the booster's motor exploded.

Estes Magnum (Payloader)(Mod)(Redshifted)



My biggest problem with this rocket was matching that beautiful blue shade of the decals. Twenty three years later, I found that the decals match Testors' Gloss Bright Blue (1210). Before I figured that out, I had given up, and had a set of black decals made for me. This modification includes a change to D booster to E sustainer motor, and has added fin tabs. Other than that (and the color), it's stock.



Estes Magnum (Payloader)(Mod)(Black)(Redshifted)



I've created a .pdf file for the fin pattern found on plans.rocketshoppe and uploaded it here. Whenever I tried to print their .jpg, I'd always get an image that was too large to fit on a single page. As a .pdf (Estes Magnum 1422 Fins.pdf),it printed perfectly for me first time. The other .pdf file (Estes Magnum Payloader Fins (both Mods).pdf) has a complete set of both modified versions of the fins.

[EDIT] All .ork files have been updated to correct the problem (which you might read about later in this thread) with the booster's fins [/EDIT]
Previous version of the "Stock' .ork was downloaded 78 times.
 

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lcorinth

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K'Tesh, buddy, you are truly gifted with OpenRocket. I didn't know most of the stuff you're doing was even possible.
 

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Thanks Daniel... I just played with the program until I figured out how to get it to do what I wanted.


Here's something for TopRamen... The Eggspress (1996) and the Scrambler (2972)



[EDIT] In the new (Stock, Decaled) ,ork file, the Eggspress' Phantom Body Tube (for Launch Lug placement) has been deleted, and externalized "Internal Body Tubes" are now in place to take the place of it. Those are not calculated into the flight characteristics of the rocket now. The Engine Hook is still there, so you'll see the discontinuity, thick fins, and jagged edged fin error messages. If you delete the phantom body tube associated with them, those errors will go away. "Air fins" were added to accommodate the asymmetrical decal placement. Even with the "Air Fins", flight performance was improved by over 80' in both sims.



The "Discontinuity in rocket body diameter" "Jagged-edged fin predictions may be inaccurate" and "Thick fins may not be modeled accurately" error messages are caused by the the engine hook and the phantom body tube used for placing it. Since the rockets were stable enough for Estes (or whoever) to sell them, I ignore the messages.


[EDIT] The Scrambler has been updated with decals. Again, the phantom body tube for the launch lugs is gone. However, I had to add "Air Fins" for the asymmetrical fin decal placement. I've saved some time for myself and just allowed the computer to create a mirrored version for one of the fins (the two decals for the fins would face the same direction (one would face the body tube, one faces away). I also placed the decals as I would have wanted to place them, and not in the stock locations).

[EDIT] I just remembered something that I forgot... I wish I knew that the Estes Scrambler/Eggscalibur nosecone (originally from the Enerjet Egg Crate), was not pre-sized for the Jumbo Egg. If you want the egg to fit inside that payload compartment, you need to trim the edges of the shoulder to allow for it to fit. Fortunately the problem was realized before I went out to the field, the egg was inside a plastic bag, and I remembered that very important saying...

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.[/EDIT]


DUE to post length issues with the Astron Cherokee-D, I've relocated the Estes Scrambler II (1908) kit here.

Tonight it's the Estes Scrambler II (1908) Egg Lofter...



[EDIT] Gone is the Phantom Body Tube for the Launch Lugs. Launch Lugs are simmed with externalized "Inner tubes", and thus are not factored in the aerodynamics.

Rather than adding an "Air Fin" for the single fin decal, I went ahead and let the computer mirror the decal (and some aftermarket decal makers include a 2nd fin decal anyway).

The "Discontinuity" and "Jagged-edge" warnings are due to the Engine Hook, and the PBT needed to place it.[/EDIT]

Now, the fins and standoffs are a bit of a problem... The image I recently found on JimZ's site is really blurry and when I printed it and scaled it, I was unable to determine what the length of the fins were at the root. Foamy measured his and provided me with a .pdf for the fins. However, his image doesn't go down to the 1/16" of an inch. So I'm making some guesses about the exact size and shape of them in this .ork file. My interpretation of the standoffs are that they are 1 3/8" at the fin root, 1" at the tip, and 19/64" high. Right or wrong, with the correct decals, it'll be hard to tell.

*UPDATE* I found the image I used (which was larger than the .tif I originally mentioned I was trying to use...) I'll print it out tomorrow, and give it the once over.


1592251895228.png


Previous versions of the .ork files for the Scrambler were downloaded 98 times for the "stock version", and 142 times for the UPDATED "stock version". The previous version of the Eggspress was downloaded 102 times. The first version of the Scrambler II (1908).ork was downloaded 78 times, the later version 182 times
 

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K'Tesh

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Now for what is possibly the most cloned rocket out there... First appearing in the 1970 Estes Catalog, and one of the first Estes "Mighty" D Powered rockets... The Astron Cherokee-D (K-47) (The Astron Omega K-52/K-52P were the others).

What a lot of people don't know is that when the Cherokee-D originally shipped in 1970 it came with a balsa nosecone (the BNC-55AC), a 16.35" BT-55V body tube, two-piece, die-cut fins, and a standoff. So, here's the short (and long) of it.



Thanks to David Stribling for pointing out this variant to me.

Recently Earl L. Cagel Jr. scored one of these rare kits, and was kind enough to scan the decals, fins, and templates (as well as the instructions) of the two piece finned version, and post them over on YORF. He emailed me the decals at 400 DPI, but unfortunately the decals were slightly damaged over time. I spent a day recreating them and cleaning them up, while maintaining the 400 DPI size. While normally I don't share the decal files because I limit them to 100 DPI for the sim and they're too grainy to use, this is a rare time that I will share them because the quality of the original was really good. Now, they're not 100% accurate. For example: several of the decals were not "straight" when lined up horizontal to the image. I'm sure that they were not meant to be bent, so I straightened them. I also rearranged them for easier use by me for my purposes. I don't know if they'll fit on a normal sheet of paper, you're welcome to modify the image as needed. I hope you enjoy them as much as I enjoyed working on them. Click on the image to go to flickr, then download the original image (3216 x 2296)



Measurements from Earl, have the original fins at 3/32" thick, and my in-bag, unbuilt kit, and found that the fins in that kit were .0935" thick (just about 3/32" thick). Note: My sim "fixes" the missing rear corner of the smaller piece of the fin. Also, you can see a subtle "hump" on the rear of the tip edge of the fin.



There's an implied discrepancy in the instructions with regards to the LLs and the standoffs. It seems to imply that the LLs and the standoffs are 5/8" long each. However, the supplied dowel was measured to be 1" long, and the photo of the dowel in the instructions backs this up. I opted to shorten the LLs and standoffs to 1/2" long each.

Thanks to Earl L. Cagel Jr. for the scans and measurements that made this sim possible.

Surprisingly, also in the first year of production, Estes made several changes to the kit... They eliminated the standoffs (as well as mention of the use of a rail in the instructions), switched to single piece fins, changed the screw eye from the SE-1 to the SE-2, and finally changed the parachute from the "checkerboard" pattern with the old logo to the orange and white version with the Damon era logo which was printed on a clear background.



Typically, I don't override masses of components in my sims. However, w/o the Air Fins, the OpenRocket default mass for the nosecone made the rocket stable, but only just (.056 calibers). Earl provided the mass of his nosecone. The BNC-55AC nosecone is currently modeled on the image from the instructions, photos of Earl's sample, and the specs I found in an old custom parts catalog. Thus, I had to use my best guess for the blunted tip. I've recently read that the BNC-55AC nosecone apparently changed shape over time, and a theory that its shaping tool's wearing out may have been to blame.

Beginning in 1971 (determined by a careful examination of the 1971 catalog), the body tube was extended to 18", and continued to be 18" until the end of production in 1983. Presumably, the nosecone continued to be made from balsa until 1974, but I've yet to find a set of instructions to prove that. The BNC-55AC continued to appear as a part available for separate purchase until the 1974 catalog, being replaced by the PNC-55AC nosecone in the '75 catalog. The catalogs over the years had a number of discrepancies.



My sim of the early production, long version, is a best guess as to the kit as it would have been in 1971. Decal placement is based on the 1971 catalog's photo. I'll update this sim as soon as new information pops up.

Oddly enough, the 21.6"/54.9 cm length in the catalogs never changed despite the use of the 18" BT-55 body tube. Another oddity in the catalogs show that it continued shipping with nothing other than a balsa nosecone up until the end of production in 1983 (which it certainly didn't). It is currently unknown when the Estes Logo found in the wrap decal was changed from the pre-Damon era version to the Damon era version. Though through careful examination of the catalogs, the old logo appeared all the catalog photos after 1973 as the image wasn't changed as the years went on... Also of note, the backing paper of the decals changed at some time from the earlier white (with instructions printed on the back) to pale blue (w/o instructions). My samples both have the later Damon era Estes logo.

Finally, In the image below, I've simmed up a late version of the Cherokee-D (1247).



The decal placement is based on the facecard of the kit, and the decals included with my new sample. Those decals were on a blue backing paper (the sample I have of the K-47's are on a white paper, and there's the potential of other 1247s using white backing paper). I relocated the name decal, the CG/CP markings, and the D Power decals to be centered between the fins, whereas the actual facecard has those decals located much closer to the fin without the writing on it. Also with this sim, I've used the scan of the fins that were included with my kit. I am redoing the older sims to get the better fin shape, as well as correct some errors with the dimensions of the markings that were used on them. In the instructions from the older K-47 kit, the two wraps are supposed to overlap in an invisible line between the upper and lower launch lugs. Another difference between early and later Cherokee-Ds is the width of the engine hook. At some time during production they widened from 0.096" to 0.125".

To date, I've only seen three versions of the instructions: the early (short) two-piece fin variant, the early (short) one-piece fin variant, and the later (long) version with the Damon era logo. There is a possibility that other variants of the kit exist.

The old sims used the fin pattern that was printed from JimZ's site. The new sims use the fins derived from an actual scan of the die cut fin, seen (on the left) below:


Note: The Cherokee-D Fin is on the left, the Magician/Cherokee-E fin is on the right. Also worth noting is the slight concave curve to the fin tip of the original, and its larger overall size (except in the root edge length) compared to the Magician/Cherokee-E fin.

Below is an image I created to help with placing the fin decals in a manner consistent with the instructions and catalog photos. Basically, the fin's decals are mirror images of each other. So one fin gets both the "NASA" decals, another gets the "NX-47A" decals, an the remaining fin just has the "swoosh" decals.



Continued in the next post...

Previous version of the (Long)(Stock) .ork was downloaded 125 times, the (Short)(Stock) version was downloaded 122 times, K-47 (1970 Catalog version 255 times, and the 2.5" PSII Upscale version 125 times.
 

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K'Tesh

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Continued from Post 23.... (The downscale sims of the Binder Design kits have been moved to post #25)

Oh... but what about my 2.5" Estes Pro Series II based upscale? Well, I created one for that too...

[EDIT]I've learned how to do decal files in OR now. Here's the Estes Cherokee-D (Long) Pro Series II Upscale (Decaled).

NOTICE: Modifications were done to allow for proper appearance. The fins are slightly out of place and I added some fins made of "air". So, it is up to the end user to correct them.



Mind you, I designed and built it with rail buttons, but at the moment, rail buttons are not an option for OR. Thanks to the Cineroc, I figured out how to model the PSII Motor Retainers too (Inner tubes don't have to fit inside the part they're "inside"). Mine is built zipperless, and due to the damage in shipping my fin can was cut down to 8 3/8 inches long. The sim has it at 15 1/2" long (the length of the stock Estes part).

UPDATE: Estes has released a new Cherokee... The Cherokee-E (2408). An even longer than the 2nd version of the original.



The -E is a limited release, currently for sale only from Hobby Lobby. It's 6" longer than the original "long" version, thanks to an additional body tube segment. An error in the instructions was found, and corrected in simming this kit. In Step 7 of the motor mount assembly, the engine block should be pushed back against the engine hook, and not be flush with the top of the motor tube as shown.

Personally, I'd change the arrangement of the body tubes, turning the kit into a zipperless design with a baffle. By careful placement of the decals, the joint between the two segments could be concealed, and would not need to be filled, thus simplifying the painting process. A zipperless simulation is also included below. Another thing to note... Estes sells Testor's paints on their website, thus I'd try matching the blue of the decals with Testor's paint. Decal placements are based on the placement of the decals seen on the instructions.

This kit is also closely related to the Estes Magician 002440 (basically, they're the same kit with a different nosecone arrangement and decals). According to John Boren, the fins were designed with the original drawings from Estes. In my samples of the Magician, I found that the fins were just a tad smaller compared with my surviving, built Cherokee-D, and later with the unbuilt fin I scanned.

Thanks to John Boren for his information, Jonathan Ott for the fin scans used in the Cherokee-E sim, and David Burkett for the scan of the Cherokee-E's instructions and the decals used in that sim.

(Files found in Post 23)
 
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K'Tesh

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Due to the length of the Cherokee-D posts, my sims of the downscales for the Binder Design Velociraptor and Raptor have been moved here, and the Estes Scrambler II (1908) Egg Lofter was moved to post #22.

I think for my next sims I'll put up the Binder Design Velociraptor and Raptor downscales I did...



In the 2nd version of the sim, I finally managed to get decals applied to the BT-60 based, downscaled Velociraptor and Raptor's ork files. Also corrected some issues that I found along the way. Markings on the Velociraptor's sim are based on the prototype found at Tammie's Hobbies in Beaverton, Oregon.

In the newest sim, I've shortened the launch lugs (and changed the location of the forward launch lug to hide it between the talon fins), and adjusted the lengths of the body tubes to hide the split at the top edge of the upper black band. This makes for easier painting and finishing, as well as moves the baffle away from the motor tube a few inches (which will increase the margin of stability), and could provide for a natural place to split the rocket for a zipperless recovery. I've also cosmetically changed the grey sections for the metallic (I'd aim for polished aluminum) paint that it should have always have been.

I'd recommend tossing the old files, and downloading a fresh copy.

Per a request, I've also just added a single stage version of the Velociraptor to the .ork files below.



I could have made it nearly identical to the two stage version, save the motor mount, but this version is designed for mid-break, zipperless deployment and with a payload section.

And now the downscale of the Binder Design Raptor...



Yes, my Raptor's canard fins are wrong... I got the file from RocketReviews, and I emailed Mike to verify that they were correct... He confirmed it, then after seeing them on the actual rocket, told me that he forgot that when he uploaded the file to RR.com, he altered the fins to see who would clone his rocket, rather than buy from him.




I'm planning on a 2nd one that has accurate fins (First Rule of Government spending: Why build one when you can build two at twice the price?) not that there's anything wrong with my first one... I'm just hoping that the 2nd one will be a tad larger (say 4" OD body tube instead of a BT-60).

More to Come...

The first sim of the two stage Velociraptor downscale was downloaded 94 times, the second version of the sim was downloaded 258 times. The original variants of the two stage Raptor downscale were downloaded 87 times each, the updated accurate fins version was downloaded 240 times, and the inaccurate fins was downloaded 216 times. The single stage version of the Velociraptor was downloaded 163 times.
 

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K'Tesh

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Now for another Classic design... The Estes Patriot (MK-3/0652) is also commonly called the Citation Patriot to eliminate confusion with the MUCH newer Patriot Missile (Yes, I feel that people should call the Patriot Missile "The Patriot Missile").

Here's what I think the original Citation Patriot (MK-3) looked like based on the image found in the 1971 Estes Citation Catalog. I'm giving myself a bit of a hedge here, as the exact position of the decals isn't given in the instructions.



Major differences between the later versions and this are the nosecones, the decals, and the rotation of the launch lugs. The nosecone was the black version of the injection molded PNC-60AH (PN 71014/71011) which required a screw eye, and the later versions' blow molded nosecones. This was a tad heavier than the blow molded nosecones. Here, the red stripes were longer (by about 5/8") than the later bagged (0652) version. I have seen some discussion that the gold decals may have been brighter than the later bagged version, but I haven't got originals to compare for myself. The 2018 re-release has the same length red stripes, but the fin decals are different. The re-release has a different Estes logo, and then there's the location of the logo over the left side of the black fin (which was done in error according to Estes Designer John Boren (Jumpjet)). To match the photo in the catalog, the LL were rotated to fit between the right side of the black fin and the white fin.

I've also created an updated sim for a stock version of the original bagged 0652 (seen below). The sim has been updated to have better "decals", include a more comprehensive method of documentation, and to correct an error (all previous sims are obsolete).



This version featured a white blow molded PNC-60AH, whereas the MK-3 version was equipped with the black, two-piece PNC-60AH (PN 71014/71011)(with screw eye)). The red stripes on the "bunting" was about 5/8" (give or take a few thousands of an inch) shorter than the original.

Decal placement is based on the instructions, as well as what is possible without moving the LL (or overlapping it).


Back in early 2018, Estes re-released the Citation Patriot.


This was given the same kit number as the bagged version of the Patriot, and the longer red stripes from the original boxed version. This version has a black blow molded PNC-60AH nosecone (PN 072658), which hearkens to the original, but is longer and lighter than the injection molded nosecone.

An error in production resulted in both of the black fin's decals having the Estes' logo over the final "T" in Patriot, instead of only one, and the other with the logo over the "P". There is another difference in the decals I've discovered. The old logo's lettering was black in a field of white, and the rocket was white in a field of black, whereas the new logo's lettering is white in a field of black, and the rocket is black in a field of white (there is also a registered (or copyright) mark in the new version).

Measurements and scans were taken directly from my own (unbuilt) sample. Remember, that there is a great supply of parts already gathered together for you if you're looking to clone the kit. Among many other sources, you can get it here, here, or (hopefully) at your LHS.


[EDIT] I've updated the files of the two stage payload versions to include decals (including custom decals for the booster fins). A fellow member of TRF (Bruiser) has built a version of this (less the payload section) using a 2nd kit's decals (modified to fit his purpose). This is what you'll see in a 3D view of the decaled file. I had to add an "Air Fin" to get the word "Patriot" to appear correctly on the fin, and I've added "Phantom Body Tubes" to add the engine hooks.



When I was building rockets for my first period of rocketry, I built the 0652. I suspect that at some time the dimensions of the fins changed, as mine (which were stock) don't match the most common image found online for the Patriot. As I'm trying to re-build what I know, my .ork file is based on my measurements of my stock fins, and not that common image. I also modified it to be an E/E capable two-stage payload rocket taking ques from the Estes Magnum Payloader (2032)(payload section length), and the Omega (K-52P)(gap staging).

Next we have the E Powered payload version (without the 2nd stage) [EDIT] The most recent version (with the decals you see below) is the 23 KB file attached at the bottom of this post.




Below is what the two stage version would be like if it didn't have the payload section or the 2nd stage... Translation... This is an E powered clone of the original. The decaled version you see below is the 22.9 KB "Redshifted" .ork file attached to this post. It uses an "Air Fin" for the "Patriot" decal, and it also has a "Phantom Body Tube" to attach the engine hook.




Here's what the actual bagged version of the rocket looks like with the payload section I added, and without the payload section (single stage). Mind you this rocket was built by my 13-year-old self and now is well over 30 years old. I realize now that I put the "bunting" upside down.




Previous version of the single stage payloader 93 times, the stock version 93 times, the two staged payloader was downloaded 90 times, and the E powered "stock" appearance 88 times respectively.
 

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Thanks for the Patriot files, I remember that rocket from back in the '70s, my first time around the hobby as a kid, but never built one. So now that I've gotten back into it with my 9 year old son, I may have to clone this one? I suspect that getting those cool patriot decals may be the most challenging part of reproducing that look though.
 

K'Tesh

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Thanks for the Patriot files, I remember that rocket from back in the '70s, my first time around the hobby as a kid, but never built one. So now that I've gotten back into it with my 9 year old son, I may have to clone this one? I suspect that getting those cool patriot decals may be the most challenging part of reproducing that look though.

Not at all... Mark/Stickershock has them in cut vinyl (stickershock23.com).
 
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sredlin

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Okay, I'll have to look those guys up for decals when the time comes. Now I mainly just need the time to build another rocket, and I still have 3 on the bench that need to be painted and finished with decals, so this clone may have to wait a while? I've always thought it was a great looking rocket though, thanks again.
 

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Played a little with MS Paint, and with OpenRocket tonight... Here's an improved version of the Citation Patriot II (Two Stage Payload Mod).

[EDIT] The files below are only for the fin templates... If you look at post #26, you'll see the most up to date version of the .ork files I've created, which include more accurate decals (taken from actual scans), as opposed to what you see below.

Estes Citation Patriot II (Two Stage Payload MOD)


I've used OR to create the bands of color (black, gold, blue and red), and MS Paint to add in the Patriot, eagle, USA, and make the details of the red and blue body tube markings more distinct. The wrap is aligned the way my original Patriot was, In the future, I'll align it with the black fin and the USA. In old sims, I simulated fin decals with more fins. Nowadays, I have learned how to use the decal tools OR provides us.


Here's the fin template and the decals from the 2018 re-release of the Citation Patriot (0652)

 

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