Krylon Spray Paint Problem

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by Michael MacDonald, May 4, 2019.

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  1. May 19, 2019 #31

    Curtis Enlow

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    Honestly, you could probably use SC Johnson Paste Wax or any pure Carnuba-based car wax and get similar results as long as the base finish is good.
     
  2. May 19, 2019 #32

    SammyD

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    Thought I'd drop my $.02 in again since I use Krylon exclusively to paint my rockets. You can spend a LOT of time messing around with this product and that, following this lead and that about floor polish etc, but at the end of the day, you want your rocket to look good with a minimum of effort, right?

    With that said, PROPER prep for paint and PROPER curing followed by PROPER sanding/polishing is all that is needed. Case in point: The photos here are shots I've taken of rockets I've painted exclusively with Krylon primer and paint. These finishes may not be show quality, but they are damned good, even upon very close inspection, so much so that people ask how I get that finish on the rocket.

    Simple: PROPER prep, proper paint application, proper curing, and proper sanding/polishing. In short, I let the paint cure for a few days, then wet-sand it starting with 600 grit and finishing with 1500 grit. Wipe the rocket down to remove most of the water, then polish with Maguire's Scratch-X (don't ask me why; it just works very quickly, better than their regular polish), then Maguire's Auto Polish. Wipe the residue off and admire your SHINY newly painted rocket.

    Btw, SKIP the clear coat. It will only give you problems when you go to make repairs/repaint down the road. ALL rockets eventually get some "road rash". If you've complicated the paint/decals with a clear coat, that's one more thing that you have to deal with to get the rocket back to flight-ready. The black rocket in the shots below gets an orange nosecone for fall flights, especially around Halloween, then it's back to black the rest of the year - switching colors is easy if you've ONLY put one type of topcoat on the rocket - think about that... :)


    DSCN1118.JPG DSCN2086.JPG
     
  3. May 20, 2019 #33

    neil_w

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    I find polishing small LPR rockets to be unpleasant. I would probably be all in on it with larger rockets though.

    For my LPR stuff, the Future works great.
     
  4. May 20, 2019 #34

    neil_w

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    Perhaps I should clarify. Thus far I've polished exactly one LPR rocket (Alcubierre), and I really wasn't comfortable with the process in the various nooks and crannies. I didn't go on to apply a finishing wax coat because after the polishing I was done. As such, I didn't achieve a high-gloss finish. It was really smooth though.

    At that point, I applied Future and WOW it came out mirror-like. So, like always, surface prep wins the day. On a polished surface (even one that was not particularly well-polished), Future produces spectacular results.

    That said, I won't be trying the polishing again unless I have a larger and simpler rocket to work on.

    Oh, and Future (or other clear-coat) is pretty good for protecting decals. It is not certain to me whether decals as a rule *need* protecting, but I do feel better having a protective coating on top of them.
     
  5. May 20, 2019 #35

    AfterBurners

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    what cracks me up and I'm sorry sincerely for seeing this ..is you guys put all the effort into building a nice rocket and ruin it using less than par paint. Spend the money on quality paint and don't deal with the problems. A little extra money saves you much time and grief later. I know Rusto is good, but all accounts based on what some say here, but I prefer Duplicolor. You can adjust the nozzle depending on your situation.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  6. May 20, 2019 #36

    lcorinth

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    WOW...

    I don't know what you mean by those not being "show quality." If that black rocket were a car, I would be afraid to test drive it, because I know I couldn't afford to damage it!

    I like Krylon. I get pretty good results with it. I use Rusto Filler Primer first, and once my primer is smooth enough, I use the Krylon.

    I have tried sanding and polishing, but only a bit. I seem to remove color. I know there's a way to do it without damaging the color you've applied, but I haven't taken the time to figure that out. I'd like to know more, of course. Maybe I'll have to practice on a few small scratch builds using the products you've mentioned.
     
  7. May 20, 2019 #37

    SammyD

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    Paint isn't mysterious, though it used to scare the h*ll out of me. Do some trials on an old body tube. Fill the grooves with filler, lightly sand down with 320 grit. Get it close. Then, put SANDABLE primer on generously. it dries fast, and can be sanded in about 20-30 minutes, sometimes less. You can even wet-sand primer. Just make sure it's (the primer) dry first. Once you're satisfied by visual inspection that you've got nearly all the imperfections either sanded down or filled, you're ready for paint. Keep in mind that paint, like the primer, can be sanded also. The finest of imperfections under a few good topcoats can be masked with paint that is sanded. If you wet-sand your topcoat and you still have "low spots" or you cut through to the primer, add more topcoats once you've dried the rocket. Hint: once you've cured the paint you're wet-sanding, you can put more topcoats on just minutes after a wet-sand. The paint is much harder than any filler or primer, and you've taken it to a more smooth surface than when it cured, so there's less places for water to go. Experiment a few times, and you'll get it. It's not rocket science........... :) Cheers!
     
  8. May 20, 2019 #38

    Zeus-cat

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    Read the fine print on the "How to use section: carefully. It clearly states, recoat within 2 hours or wait at least 5 decades before applying a second coat. You didn't wait long enough!
     
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  9. May 20, 2019 #39

    Zeus-cat

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    Do you have to airbrush the floor polish on? Can you use a paint brush? How long do you need to let it dry?

    I have had nose cones and other plastic parts orange peel several times. Very annoying.
     
  10. May 20, 2019 #40

    neil_w

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    I use a foam brush to apply it. Some folks spray it out of a standard spray bottle, slightly diluted with Simple Green (@Gary Byrum recommends 3 parts Future to 1 part Simple Green). Others airbrush it, thought I don't think I've heard any details on that. I may try switching to the spray bottle approach, although it means I'll need to move the process to the shed.
     
  11. May 21, 2019 #41

    Pepe Le Pew

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    Hi Michael, from my friends in the guitar business, they use Krylon base colors and clear, some guitars get 30 or more coats of clear, but.........krylon takes about 30 days to CURE, yes cure, the paint has to cure, not dry but cure, to a hard, sandable finish. The reason some modelers use a two part automotive paint system. Once you have invested in a paint gun, (Harbor Freight makes a cheap, but very util paint gun for around 29 bucks), you'll be able to apply a finish that will, change your mind about rattle cans. Don't get me wrong, rattlecans have their place, but for that awesome, hard finish, gomtwo,part paint/hardener. .02$
     
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  12. May 21, 2019 #42

    lakeroadster

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    30 days to cure x 30 coats = 900 days = about 2-1/2 years to build a guitar.... Holy Schnikeys!
     
  13. May 21, 2019 #43

    Banzai88

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    If you look at the recoat window, it's no where near that. It DOES NOT require a cure between each coat. Not even close.

    The can of Krylon that I just looked at says wait 1 minute between each coat. Obviously that'll depend on how wet you put it on and temp/humidity conditions, and even the particular series of paint, regardless of manufacturer. Not everything that says 'krylon' is cross-brand compatible. The label clearly says 'test first on an inconspicuous piece'.

    Idea: when you paint your rocket, hit a piece of cardboard with the same prep/primer/paint/clear BEFORE committing to the rocket!

    The beauty of enamels is that they're one step, one coat, cure/dry hard, and can be easily buffed to a high shine, and are durable. Add clear to get a depth of shine.

    Unfortunately, people don't understand paint, and even fewer read the directions on the can. Krylon, and Rustoleum for that matter, has been through several different formulations in the last 5 years, and they're also seldom compatible between formulations. Check out some of the 'finish ruined' threads from the last few years and you'll see.

    I work in enamels sometimes, but ALWAYS find them to be more frustration than going with high quality artist NC lacquers if I simply must use a rattle can, for the same price. Less material, less prep, easier finish, higher shine, easier maintenance, easier repair.

    NOTHING beats an HVLP and some simple lacquer, though, and can be done on the cheap. Flip side is the clean up and learning curve.
     
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  14. May 21, 2019 #44

    AfterBurners

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    Sammy nice work on the rockets. What kit is the Bull Pup? Also I always clear and wet sand the clear and get good results. You can wet sand the paint, but you have to be pretty careful not to sand through and lay the paint on pretty thick I would think if you are starting with 600? My Jayhawk I laid down maybe 3-4 coats of the top coat and about the same with the clear. Wet sanded the clear and polished it out. I believe I started with 800, 1000 and then 2000. It turned out pretty nice, but always room for improvement. Just saying more than one way to skin a cat.
     

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  15. May 21, 2019 #45

    SammyD

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    Thank you!

    For coats, I do it this way (and the spray tip is important for even application). In recent years, Krylon has put a tip on their spray cans (the yellow tips) that absolutely suck! They send paint out of the can in a circle spray pattern, which is horrible for any sort of good results.

    The old white tips that you could turn 90 degrees to change the spray pattern direction was the key to getting good even coats, and only ACE Hardware seems to have those now in their "ACE" branded paints, which I've confirmed with Krylon are made by Krylon for ACE - nice that they put the good tips on something they're making, right?

    Anyway, I put an initial light coat on, then let the rocket/part sit for about 20 minutes. Then I come back with a heavy coat, let it sit for another 20 minutes, then come back with another heavy coat, wait another 20, they a final heavy coat. I let this, depending on the color, sit for as long as 48 hours before hitting it with the sandpaper; some colors can be wetsanded in a few hours as some of the paint color formulas cure quicker than others...

    The Jayhawk looks awesome! I just try to keep it simple because the rockets, if they're flying, are going to get banged up a bit - the nature of the beast. I like to go back and make repairs and repaint. If there's clearcoat over decals or hindering my getting to the paint, that's a step I don't want. I can sand a 3"dia/48" tall rocket down and prep it for a new color of paint (if I wanted to do such a thing) in about an hour if there's just paint in my way. Decals under clearcoat increase that time as does the clearcoat and compatibility later with basecoats/clearcoats, then new topcoats.

    Yes, there are many ways to skin the cat. :)

    PS: The Pup is a scratch build; most of my rockets are scratch builds - I like starting with self-sourced components, then putting it all together to make something that flies... :)
     
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  16. May 21, 2019 #46

    AfterBurners

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    Sammy - You do great work and I admire the finish you get on your rockets. You are absolutely right about them getting banged up, but with my luck I usually turn them into core samples before they have time to get banged up. Painted a Sumo and put a trick 3 color paint job on it, next thing you know after the second flight, core sample! Ouch! I do find by having a super smooth finish allows the rocket to reach maximum terminal velocity when coming in ballistic at the desert floor.
     
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  17. May 21, 2019 #47

    SammyD

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    Thank you again! You're too kind, and too damned funny! Yes, a slick surface makes them go faster, no matter which direction that happens to be.......... :) :) :)
     
  18. May 21, 2019 #48

    SammyD

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    PS: just changed my avatar to a 4" upscaled Warthog that I built in late 2014. It has over 20 documented high-power flights on it, mostly J and K motors. She's in for an extended repair right now due to a tree landing last fall... :-(
     
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  19. May 21, 2019 #49

    gldknght

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    I've never had good success with Krylon paint. I don't think it's compatible with anything, including Krylon paint. I've had much better success with the Rustoleum line.
     
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  20. May 21, 2019 #50

    Curtis Enlow

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    I think there is a size consideration, as well. I'm currently painting a 63" rocket and I think I am hitting the limit of what a rattle can will do as far as a nice, even, consistent and cost-effective coverage on a larger ship.

    I'm using Dupli-color, which is nice paint, but it took two $12 cans for the base coat, alone.
     
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  21. May 21, 2019 #51

    Banzai88

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    If it's the lacquer, there's your answer. Artist lacquer is much more pigment dense...at the same price and dozens of colors.
     
  22. May 21, 2019 #52

    SammyD

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    I painted a club rocket with Krylon cans back in 2014 that was 11' tall and 8" in diameter - same results. It's all in the proper application of the product.......
     
  23. May 21, 2019 #53

    Curtis Enlow

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    Is that the brand?

    I like how Dupli-color flows, but...wow, it takes a few coats to get consistent coverage. I do like the quick dry between coats of lacquer, tho.

    As others have pointed out, spray guns are awesome, but unless you have a fairly beefy compressor and some ventilation and proper PPE...
     
  24. May 21, 2019 #54

    AfterBurners

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    I'm thinking about just breaking down and getting a spray gun. I haven't anything much bigger than maybe a G-FORCE, but that could change. I usually stay short and fat rockets or nothing bigger than 4"
     
  25. May 21, 2019 #55

    Scott_650

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    Wrinkling paint is an annoying problem and nose cones seem to be the worst offenders. I’ve pretty much switched to Testors exclusively for plastic cones. I think it’s all about how aggressive or “hot” the solvent component of the paint is and since Testors is specifically for plastic models it seems to work better. Yeah, those little cans are pricey and getting a good color match can be tricky but compared to the pain caused by ruined paint jobs it’s worth it to me. YMMV.
     
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  26. May 21, 2019 #56

    Curtis Enlow

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    For what it's worth (and for future reference) I used Dupli-color adhesion promoter, followed quickly by white primer, sanding, white primer, sanding and finally white gloss - all within about a week's time, and it turned out perfect.
     
  27. May 21, 2019 #57

    Banzai88

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    For the record, I NEVER understood the $500 world class rocket project, the agonizing over ever single minor insignificant little detail and laminar flow of every molecule of air flowing from nose cone to fin tip and hours upon hours of research and simulations, and then complaining about a $12 paint job.........

    The paint I'm referring to are artist colors, usually used for comic illustration or graffiti type art. Available locally from art supply houses, or like everything else rocket people buy.....ONLINE from a variety of vendors. Catch sales and it's as cheap as Rusto or Krylon bought locally (even with shipping) with NONE of the BS problems (even if you don't read the directions). Usually covers in 2 coats with nominal 400grit wet sanded primer of any brand to look amazing.

    Use a good clear coat to top coat it, the clear gloss of each brand works well
    . I use Eastwood 2K or Spray Max 2K 2 part polyurethane rattle can. 2K can be buffed easily to an automotive shine, but alone is rock hard and super shiny. Look up some YouTube videos of the paint and the clear.

    http://www.plutoniumpaint.com/

    https://www.montana-cans.com/

    https://www.spraymax.com/en/products/product/clear-coats-and-spot-blender/2k-clear-coat/

    https://www.eastwood.com/paints/2k-aero-spray-paints.html

    For the record, you can get into a spray rig and PPE for under $150 and have VERY nice results, just commit to the learning curve and the cleaning. Plenty of threads on it right here at TRF.
     
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  28. May 21, 2019 #58

    AfterBurners

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    Duplicolor works great and a lot less, but if you are spraying some rockets Testers is good too
     
  29. May 21, 2019 #59

    Curtis Enlow

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    Thanks, Tom! I will definitely check that out with my next build. I know the higher pigment would solve some of the minor issues I've had with coverage.

    I spray gunned my boat and it was a lot easier than i thought it would be, and looked great. I had to buy the largest orifice & needle I could (for my $35 gun) and had to barrow the neighbor's 190-gal compressor, but they are very handy things to have around for all kinds of handyman reasons, and would certainly make painting a larger rocket a breeze.
     
  30. May 21, 2019 #60

    kevindcornwell

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    The Dulpi-Color sandable surfacer primer is a high-build that fills spirals beautifully with a smooth outcome. And it's sandable within a half-hour. Absolutely awesome. As is the cost. I'm going to try the Kilz just as a cost comparison.
     

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