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Krylon not like before due to formula change

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georgegassaway

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Cross post of a message in the Space Modelers Yahoogroup, which seems to explain things pretty well. Whatever you were used to with Krylon before, it's all different now. No longer a lacquer, it is oil-based enamel. You have to re-learn how to use it and what is compatible or not. Or perhaps some other paint(s) will be better for various uses.

- George Gassaway


-------------- "Re: Paint Emergency!!!!!!"

It's no wonder you are having trouble. To begin with, Krylon is no
longer the Krylon you're used to. This is due to the EPA meddling in
the product. I spent the last two weeks wasting money and trying to
solve a wrinkling/lifting problem (very similar to your reptile skin
appearance), including at least seven calls to Krylon. Desperation was
setting in since I was modifying a large model I built two years ago
for a land developer. Used Krylon at that time and had no problem and
went into this project using exactly the same Krylon paint so that
everything would be compatible. I thought. Boy, was I wrong!

Without making this story way too long, here it is in a nutshell. Up
until a year ago, the Krylon that we've all been used to was an
acrylic lacquer. Dries in 12 minutes and can be recoated without any
worry relative to the previous coat reacting. Unfortunately, the EPA
in their wisdom came up with regulations that resulted in Krylon
reformulating their old, reliable acrylic lacquer into an oil-based
enamel. Not just an ordinary enamel but an oil-based enamel. This has
several very interesting and very bad results where the modelbuilder
is concerned.

You now have a window of application, followed by an extended drying
period before it can be resprayed. The instructions on the back of
the can are very specific and MUST be followed to the letter. To begin
with, spray a light coat, wait five minutes and spray another light
coat. Repeat the process until you have the desired coverage. Keep in
mind that all spraying MUST be completed within one hour or the
underlying coats will wrinkle and lift. Not MAY but WILL. After that
one hour time period, you MUST wait a minimum of 24 hours before
applying another color coat or the previous coats that you thought
were dry will...you guessed it....wrinkle and lift. Do be aware that
24 hours in the MINIMUM waiting period. Depending on how many previous
coats you applied in the one hour time frame, you may have to wait
more than 24 hours to apply additional coats.

Although the instructions don't indicate the need for a base coat,
this stuff is so weird that I would definitely recommend a primer
base. However, even the primer is an oil-based enamel with the same
window of application and drying time. Be that as it may, be sure to
used the Krylon primer so that everything is compatible.

Finally, because you're dealing with an oil-based enamel, plan on an
extended painting session and multiple coats in order to prevent runs.
Because it doesn't have the 'tooth' or grab of acrylic lacquer,
applying enough paint to attain an opaque coat...especially where
white is concerned... white is concerned...<wbr>is guaranteed to result in

Oh, one last comment. According to Krylon, changing the formula from
an acrylic lacquer to an oil-based enamel made the product more user
friendly for the average consumer. I don't know about the average
consumer, but it did just the opposite where the modelbuilder is
concerned.

By the way, if you're still longing for the old Krylon acrylic
lacquer, it can still be found. As an industrial paint. Order it from
industrial suppliers in six-can quantities and use it over Dupi-Color
Gray Primer and Filler that, as far as I know, can only be found in
NAPA Auto Supply stores.

Don't get the idea that you can find another brand of spray paint that
will do the same job with a shorter wait time. ALL of them have
suffered at the hands of the EPA. The window of application ranges
from one to four hours and the wait time to recoat can be as long as
two to seven DAYS. You can also forget picking up pure lacquer
automotive paint that used to made by DuPont and available from
automotive paint stores. DuPont doesn't make it any more. Thank the
EPA for that as well.

Hope some of this helps.

Richard Marmo, IPMS/USA #2
The Modeler's Weapons Shop
Scale Publications
Modelbuilding Services by Richard Marmo
 

TWRackers

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Hmmmmm... I've got two or three dozen slightly used cans of old-formula Krylon in various colors sitting around. Maybe I should take them along to the next big launch and have a mini yard sale. :D Could price them by net weight remaining.

I am planning to be at Red Glare VI this spring....
 

sunward

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------------- "Re: Paint Emergency!!!!!!"

reliable acrylic lacquer into an oil-based
enamel..... by Richard Marmo
This doesn't make sense. The trend is from oil based to acrylic. Why would the EPA force a change the other way?
 

sunward

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I wanted to confirm it so I sent an email to Krylon. Official answer:

.... Due to Federal VOC restrictions on solvent based paints, we were forced to change the formula from a lacquer to an alkyd. Lacquers can be recoated anytime, whereas alkyds need to be recoated within one hour or after 24 hours. Once the alkyd resin starts curing, if a new coat is applied over it, wrinkling will likely occur.

The old version is still available through our "Industrial" distribution as such products are not as regulated as "Consumer" paints are - which is our line. However, it will not have the new spray nozzle etc. You can find these products at such suppliers as Grainger or Fastenal.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...finementSearch&originalValue=krylon&L1=Krylon

http://www.fastenal.com/web/product...Search+All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&N=0&Nty=1

So yes, the formula has changed.
 

Intruder

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A new national regulation will help further reduce smog-forming emissions from aerosol spray paints
That is COMPLETELY asinine. Since when did rattle cans become a major smog contributor? This is just another one of those cases were the EPA and related agencies do something to say, "Hey! Look at me! I'm helping the environment!" instead of actually helping the environment.
 

dr wogz

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I'm curious to know, if these changes also have something to do with cities & such asking for an "easier to clean" formula.. To help deter the 'tags' & general grafiti afflicting many buildings, bus shelters, and other surfaces..
 

bsexton

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Plasti-Kote Enamel had a similar formulation to the "old" Krylon and some of the auto parts stores in my area carried their line of paint. Plasti-Kote has become more and more difficult to find but I did stumble upon the Plasti-Kote "Industrial" All-Purpose Enamel at Northern Tools this past weekend. This is the "recoat anytime, fast dry" variety. If you liked the old Krylon and can find Plasti-Kote I think you will be pleased...
 

RCBrust

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Found a Krylon Industrial website and they have a page for 5-ball interior/exterior paint. Looks like it may be the good 'ol stuff, and still available in a decent selection of colors. What do you guys think?

Randy
 

dr wogz

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I've seen a whole new line in Home depot; Rust-o-leum seems to have a slew of colours & such in rattle cans. Any word / experience / thoughts?
 

RoyAtl

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Found a Krylon Industrial website and they have a page for 5-ball interior/exterior paint. Looks like it may be the good 'ol stuff, and still available in a decent selection of colors. What do you guys think?

Randy
That IS the old stuff. See Sunward's reply before yours.
 

RCBrust

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Oops, missed that. Looks like Grainger sells single cans too. As an avid Krylon user, good to know I can still get my fix. :)

Randy
 

REAPER

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Plasti-Kote Enamel had a similar formulation to the "old" Krylon and some of the auto parts stores in my area carried their line of paint. Plasti-Kote has become more and more difficult to find but I did stumble upon the Plasti-Kote "Industrial" All-Purpose Enamel at Northern Tools this past weekend. This is the "recoat anytime, fast dry" variety. If you liked the old Krylon and can find Plasti-Kote I think you will be pleased...
Just a note on Plasti-Kote paint. I used to use this paint almost exclusively,all the local CarQuest's stocked it. They too have changed their formula and it is not compatible with the old formula. Recoat times have changed and the paint takes longer to dry. I noted this on the "old" TRF a few months ago, so I thought I would update the info in case anyone was interested in using Plasti-Kote.
 

rokitflite

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I bought a whole bunch of the Glossy White in the old formulation before it vanished from the mainstream... I have since bought more cans from Grainger. As far as color coats, I now pretty much use the Tamiya sprays exclusively. They have great spray characteristics, go over the Krylon with no issues, dry almost as fast as Krylon and come in some great colors... The only down side is the price at $7 per can. As long as I can get the Glossy White Krylon, and Tamiya doesn't change THEIR formula, I will be a happy rocketeer!:D
 

RimfireJim

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I've seen a whole new line in Home depot; Rust-o-leum seems to have a slew of colours & such in rattle cans. Any word / experience / thoughts?
Not sure what "new line" you are referring to - Rustoleum has been around quite a while and has been carried by The Home Depot for years. Both the Rustoleum "Stops Rust" line and their "Painter's Touch" line are enamels with a specific recoat time, like the new Krylon.
 

AKPilot

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You mean to tell me that Missouri can't ban smoking in public buildings, but the EPA can ban certain types of spray paint?!

Well, I guess it's another reason to start using an airbrush.
 

hilltopper

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Lowes has both Enamels and Laquers most the crappy enamels but if you look they have spray cans of laquers with recoat anytime on the label. the brand is their store brand Valspar. but If I dont have to worry about recaoting time i dont care about the brand as long as it works well. I air brush mostly but use spray cans for black and white base coats.
 

Trident

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Not sure what "new line" you are referring to - Rustoleum has been around quite a while and has been carried by The Home Depot for years. Both the Rustoleum "Stops Rust" line and their "Painter's Touch" line are enamels with a specific recoat time, like the new Krylon.
Rustoleum has a "new" line of lacquer sprays. At least I assume they are new -- big bold "LACQUER" on the label. I posted info on YORF -- colors available, and pics of a test rocket:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?p=62017#post62017
 

Dr.Zooch

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How can you tell the differance between the old and the new just by reading what's on the can?

I ask this because my little, small town, nook, hardware store has a paint corner with a ton of assorted Krylon cans that are dust covered and have apparently not been well visited. It may be likely that they have some of the "old" stuff in stock.

Also- does anyone know if this issue applies to Crystal Clear?
 

Boosterdude

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How can you tell the differance between the old and the new just by reading what's on the can?

I ask this because my little, small town, nook, hardware store has a paint corner with a ton of assorted Krylon cans that are dust covered and have apparently not been well visited. It may be likely that they have some of the "old" stuff in stock.

Also- does anyone know if this issue applies to Crystal Clear?
The shape of the cap. The new cap tapers toward the top, where the old does not.
 

RCBrust

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...my little, small town, nook, hardware store has a paint corner with a ton of assorted Krylon cans that are dust covered and have apparently not been well visited.
If it's the old stuff, do they have a can of light blue?

Randy
 

CharlaineC

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Looks to me like i'm going to have to dust off the old airbrish and finally fix the air compresser. hmmmm i know a hobbie shop thats selling then at 75% off
 

RoyAtl

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How can you tell the differance between the old and the new just by reading what's on the can?

I ask this because my little, small town, nook, hardware store has a paint corner with a ton of assorted Krylon cans that are dust covered and have apparently not been well visited. It may be likely that they have some of the "old" stuff in stock.
Shape of the cap which is like a chopped ogive, lower part of label has color, the "five balls" are presented in perspective. "Indoor/Outdoor" instead of "interior/exterior"



Also- does anyone know if this issue applies to Crystal Clear?
Don't know if the old Crystal Clear was different, but the description sounds like the above color paints:

http://www.krylon.com/products/acrylic_crystal_clear/
 

Mike Howie

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another easy way to tell:
Old labeled - Interior/Exterior
New labeled - Indoor/Outdoor
 

Dr.Zooch

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Looks as if my local hardware store is about to have their paint rack raided.
 

luke strawwalker

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How can you tell the differance between the old and the new just by reading what's on the can?

I ask this because my little, small town, nook, hardware store has a paint corner with a ton of assorted Krylon cans that are dust covered and have apparently not been well visited. It may be likely that they have some of the "old" stuff in stock.

Also- does anyone know if this issue applies to Crystal Clear?
Here's a trick I've learned that SEEMS to be pretty universal across brands, since you brought up one of my MAJOR pet peeves with the rattlecan paint mfg's.... SOME put the 'formulation' on the can ("Alkyd Enamel", "Enamel", "Lacquer", etc.) but a LOT of manufacturers don't put ANY hint of what the paint formulation is on the front or back of the can whatsoever, and you can't really tell from the generic "contains petroleum distillates or volatile organic solvents" type warnings on the back of the can...

Turn to the back of the can and read the instructions... somewhere on there should be a line about the recoat times:

"recoat within one hour or after 24 hours" or something similar means the paint is an enamel of some type. Incompatible with lacquers...

"recoat anytime" generally means the paint is probably a lacquer.

ALWAYS do a compatibility test if you're unsure or using different brand products over/under each other! (or as others have mentioned, REFORMULATED same-brand products like the old and new Krylon, which the company RIGHTFULLY SHOULD HAVE put a warning on the cans that the new stuff is reformulated and NOT to use it with "old" formula Krylon, despite being the same brand)

YMMV but it seems like a pretty decent way to get SOME idea of what's in the can before you buy it, especially given that at least half the manufacturers are too lazy to print what's in the freakin' can...

Good luck! OL JR :)
 
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Trident

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Don't know if the old Crystal Clear was different, but the description sounds like the above color paints:

http://www.krylon.com/products/acrylic_crystal_clear/
I've used the "new" UV Resistant Acrylic Clears in both Matte, and Gloss. Works fine on a wide range of paints I've tested it on.

I painted this Outlander Testors flat gray, put Krylon Gloss Clear on it, decal'd it, and then Matte Clear to restore the flat finish. Great product, IMHO.

 

mach7

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Well this just stinks.

I was wondering why the last couple of rockets had runs. It's the new paint.

After I read this thread, I primed 3 rockets 10 days ago. I just put the first coats of top color on and 2 have small bubbling areas. I followed directions, I put on 3 thin coats 10 min apart in the first hour. I also had some minor runs.
Looks like I'll have to break out my airbrush.

Why can't the government just leave things alone!
 

Rocketcrab

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OK, an admitted DA question here.......but with all of the back and forth on this issue I kinda got confused........can OLD Krylon be sprayed over the NEW Krylon? :confused2:
 

m85476585

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OK, an admitted DA question here.......but with all of the back and forth on this issue I kinda got confused........can OLD Krylon be sprayed over the NEW Krylon? :confused2:
I haven't tested it, but generally enamels (the new one) can be sprayed over lacquers (the old one), but not the other way around.
 
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