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Kilz Primer

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marvSRG

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Ok...I know many of you have advocated this stuff, and I picked some up today, but I want to know if it's the right kind. Mine reads:

Kilz Original
interior oil-base
Sealer-Primer-Stainblocker
Blocks smoke, water & grease stains-seals odors

Is this the stuff? If so, how well does it fill, dry and sand? What paints will and will not go over it? Would you reccomend putting your paint's primer over it before you do your color coats?

Thanx
 

ggoldy

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Yup, that's the stuff I use. 'I' think it fills better than primer, dries quickly, sands very easily, I can use sheet rock mud to fill small blemishes(also sands easily), takes krylon primer and color coats just fine. Of course, I'm not known for being real smart, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
 

OKTurbo

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Marv,

That's it. I usually let it dry overnight. It's dry to the touch in 15 minutes, but it will load up the sandpaper if you don't let it completely dry overnight. When dry, it will sand very nicely.

It has no problem with Krylon colors or the small Testors spray paints. I haven't tried it with anything else.

Two coats, sanded in between is usually enough to fill the grain....no Fill-n-Finish needed!

Works for me...

John
 

Stymye

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I've used it so far with ,Kylon,Rustoleum and Duplicolor without any problems...
 

Johnnie

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Very good primer...weigh the options:


fill spirals with putty and sand hoping thay go away then prime, or just spray away the spirals with KILZ ...spiral fill in a can, love the stuff.
 

cummins

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I used the same stuff for the first time this weekend and it left a lot of pitts. It looks like a lot of air bubbles. Has anyone seen this before? Did i not shake it enough?:(
 

Johnnie

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Have you sanded the primer finish yet to see if they go away?
 

cummins

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Yea, I will respray it tonight to see if it happens again. Could it be from oil from my hands?
 

Stewart32

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I have had the same results Cummins... I don't know the cause.

This is the only attribute I dislike about Kilz.
 

kgholloway

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I've had the same problem with KILZ and the solution was to let it dry longer before sanding it. I live right on the South shore of Lake Erie and it takes at least 24 hours drying time, some times as much as 72 hours, before it sands correctly. I've learned to take a couple of swipes with a sanding block on the area that has the thickest coating of primer and then check the sandpaper. If the paper shows no signs of the primer "clumping" then it's safe to sand the rocket. Otherwise I wait another day and test again.

Ken Holloway
 

nomopbo

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Kilz is great! It's a little expensive.
I found a cheaper brand I have had equal success with. My hunch is it's an off brand or generic brand of Kilz. It's called "Zap", at my WalMart it is right next to Kilz. It is also a quick dry oil. Treat it just as you do Kilz. Let dry throughly, same coverage, same filling and sandability qualities. About half the price.
 

cummins

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It seams that the pits and bubbles are in the thickest area of primer. to me it just doesn't look like it is a consant spray. I have used Krylon primer with no problems. I wanted to try something that is mentioned alot here.

It is probably just me with something a little differant. I have noticed that a can of kilz does not last as long as Krylon. Is that beacuse it is sprays thicker?
 

billeblurzz

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Hey guys, I use kilz all the time...I am familiar with what you are describing. The problem you are having is that Kilz is a HIGH BUILD material that comes out really in great quantities quickly. Look at the size of the hole in the nozzle. On a smaller rocket you have to keep the can moving over the surface. Your problem is one of too much build up in one area followed by QUICK drying and leaving the pit. It has nothing to do with the length of time between sanding. It just takes a different technique than what you are used to. Maybe try several lighter coats quickly moving over the surface. The tendency to build up a layer over a pit once you see one will only make the problem WORSE. Some very fine sanding can remove the pits after drying. If you can master the different techniques for application, the resulting surface will make your paint applications improve greatly. I usually sand and paint over kilz after about 8 hours.
 

Steward

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I just finished my Cherokee D using KILZ as a sanding sealer.

With the exception of having to wait at least overnight before sanding, I believe it's the best way of finishing rocket surfaces...!!!

Granted, it does take a little getting used to, but I've never seen such smooth surfaces with such a minimal amount of effort.
Even after I mistakenly put a large fat thumb print in the wet KILZ... after drying it polished out with no trouble. Had I been using a KRYLON primer it would have meant almost starting over...


I think I'm hooked...!!!



 

rstaff3

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I haven't used it until recently and pretty much echo what's been said. The surface is rougher than other primers I've used, even with thin coats. However, this sands off easiily once dry and by far fills better than the others.

I did get it real thick in one spot durning some manual turning of the target rocket and it bubbled up. This thick area took a while to dry (overnight), but also sanded fine.

I'll have to look for the "Zap' primer next.
 

billeblurzz

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Looking good with the Kilz, Steward! Okay, I'll go out on a limb here. I had NO good success with ZAP. Much cheaper yes...but you get what you pay for!!! Maybe just me, but mine ran all over the place and finally clogged up and would not come out of the can...could have been just that can...but it definitely is a lower quality product. If anyone has good success with ZAP, go for it! But not me!:( :(
 

rstaff3

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Hmmm, maybe I'll wait for more opinions before I try Zap. Of course if its cheap enough I misght experiment on junk parts.
 

Chuck Rudy

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I've listened in here and am wondering why in the world anyone would use Kilz for a primer on a rocket, unless it's given to them. Even then it makes no sense to me. Kilz is used in constructionf for three reasons, 1-if a wall is written on with magic marker, the marker bleeds through paint, Kilz prevents this. 2- If small amounts of mold or mildew have infiltrated into plaster or drywall Kilz is used to kill the top layer of live critters so they won't bleed through the paint. 3- Graffiti is covered with Kilz in the event paints or markers were used which would bleed through the repainted area.

This stuff is a construction item which has enough xylene in it to kilz your lungs. I would never have even considered using it. The applications it is used for has paint which is rolled or brushed on, not sprayed, so the pits do not matter too much.

Automotive primers are much more in line with the necessary task at hand, as in, it's what they were designed for. Someone will have to clue me in as to why Kilz would even be considered since you need a respirator to use it. If you have the money for a respirator, you have the money for the proper primer.

Clue me in.
 

Stymye

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It's the highest build you can get from a can
 

powderburner

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Chuck Rudy is correct about the 'normal' applications for Kilz, I have used the stuff to cover oil-based paints before using latex-based, and to cover fire/smoke damage on some kitchen cabinets.

Yes, the original Kilz formula was nasty (lots of warnings about ventilation). However, there is supposed to be a completely new Kilz formula that is water-based and correspondingly less toxic. If this is the same kind of Kilz that comes in the new aerosol cans, it is a lot more safe to work with.

Chuck, the reason we rocket guys are using it is that is works great as a filler. It covers well, sands easily, and as a bonus, leaves a nice white base for paint. Even if I have to stand outdoors to spray it, I will keep on using it.
 

limd21

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Kilz does make other formulations that are much friendlier to lungs and environment, but someone with experience will need to comment if they build and perform as well as the original formulation.

There are also plenty of high build formulations of automotive primer available, if you need to use a spray can.

Myself, I shoot household acrylic latex primer (yes, the stuff you ordinarily use on walls and ceilings) through an airbrush. Build is very high, and it's very easily sanded to a butter smooth surface. Thin with water or windshield wiper fluid, clean with water. Fast drying, too. Benjamin Moore "Fresh Start" is terrific on rockets.
 

flying_silverad

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It's pronounced "Gills" right? The reason I ask is when i went looking for it the girl at the counter must of thought I was Aquaman or something.

"Excuse me, where can I find a can of Kilz (gills)?", I said.

"Over there," She pointed to the far end of the store, "In the tropical fish area."

Yikes.:D
 

Steward

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Do a Google search on "KILZ ingredients"... i'm not sure what it ALL means... but it's all there... including the warnings...

Most anything you could use to prime or paint is basically toxic....
if not dealt with in moderation...
 

limd21

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Most anything you could use to prime or paint is basically toxic....
Even as one who sprays almost exclusively using water-based acrylic types of products, I still use a respirator have very good ventilation - e.g. either a paint booth or shooting outdoors. Even the paints labelled "non-toxic" that I often use are probably not meant as lung coatings, so I prefer to be as safe as possible. No reason to mess around with this given that a decent resipirator can be had for under $20. If I was shooting organic solvent based products (which I hardly do anymore), this would be even more important to me.
 

SwingWing

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Originally posted by rstaff3
Hmmm, maybe I'll wait for more opinions before I try Zap. Of course if its cheap enough I misght experiment on junk parts.
Zap is Walmart's Kilz "equivalent" and is nowhere near as good. There is a Zinsser brand of stain blocking primer that is pretty good too, but not any cheaper than Kilz. In our area, Menards carries the Zinsser brand, but not the Kilz. Walmart carries Kilz and Zap-Crap.
 

eugenefl

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I'm having some mixed feelings about this Kilz stuff. I can see where it might be alright on larger rockets (ie 2.6" and up), but on a BT50 or BT55 diameter this stuff seems like overkill. I found that it spits a lot and leaves a lot more work behind. I'm currently working on a vintage Sky Raider and I have quite a bit of sanding ahead of me. After one application, I can still see some spirals and pits where air bubbles were.

What grade sandpaper are you guys using to sand this stuff down?
 

Stymye

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60 grit.......






no , just kidding,, been there
I've found after a lot of trial and error
you really have to shake the heck out of the can ..I've had a number of instances where it will spray somewhat runny and make bubbles for a while than start to spit and sputter as the larger chunks go into the nozzle.. sometimes to the point where it quits spraying alltogether... I had to remove the nozzle to clear it out ( I used a finishing nail in the stem part of the nozzle, not the hole)

after doing this a number of times and getting the same results ,I finally realised it takes a lot of shaking the can to get a nice even flow

I agree ..on small rockets it can darn near obliterate small details
so I usually save the kilz for larger jobs myself.

the trick is to completely mix the contents to get decient results
when your arm gets tired it's almost ready...lol
 

lalligood

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Originally posted by eugenefl
I'm having some mixed feelings about this Kilz stuff. I can see where it might be alright on larger rockets (ie 2.6" and up), but on a BT50 or BT55 diameter this stuff seems like overkill. I found that it spits a lot and leaves a lot more work behind. I'm currently working on a vintage Sky Raider and I have quite a bit of sanding ahead of me. After one application, I can still see some spirals and pits where air bubbles were.

What grade sandpaper are you guys using to sand this stuff down?
eugenefl,

I know exactly how you feel... I've only used Kilz once & was discouraged to say the least about the sanding it left for me to do. (I discovered that I don't like sanding! haha :p But I don't mind the painting part...) I'm sure Kilz has its use on LARGE projects (like 4" diameter & up), but I'm sticking to Krylon for my projects. But we had to give it a try, didn't we?
 

eugenefl

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Originally posted by lalligood
eugenefl,

I know exactly how you feel... I've only used Kilz once & was discouraged to say the least about the sanding it left for me to do. (I discovered that I don't like sanding! haha :p But I don't mind the painting part...) I'm sure Kilz has its use on LARGE projects (like 4" diameter & up), but I'm sticking to Krylon for my projects. But we had to give it a try, didn't we?
Agreed. I was pretty hyped about this thread. I actually bought 4 cans of the stuff. I think I'll leave it for a 3" dia shipping tube project. This way I can lay it on thick and take some larger sheets of sandpaper to it. As for the model rocket stuff, I think I'll stick with Fill n Finish on the balsa and Krylon primer on the rocket.

The Future Floor polish on the other hand... :)
 

marvSRG

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Well it's about time to use my Kilz...I'm repainting a 5.5" bird and I've sanded it already. Before I whip out the Kilz I'm going to prime it w/grey Krylon first to see the irregularities in the body are (it's been painted twice before so there's so many color blotches it's hard to tell where the big irregularites and whatnot are). Once I have a solid color on the rocket and see how good/bad the surface is, that will determine if I use Kilz or not. If I don't use it on this one, I'll be using it on a two stager I'm working on w/3" mailing tube airframes. So I'll have an opinion soon.
 
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