# Jolly Logic 3

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#### MikeyDSlagle

##### Well-Known Member
So this gadget has been out for a little over a year now. I am very close to buying one. But I thought I would ask around and see what kind of experiences some of the folks here are having with it. I have a RRC2+ and Adept22 to handle the dual deploy and record max altitude on some of my rockets. But on some it is impractical to build a dedicated bay just to get the max altitude of a rocket, my Big Daddy comes to mind. Sure it has a nice big nose cone to fit a bay, but I don't always need that extra weight up front; or the hassle of setting up a dedicated bay, until I try HED on it. But that is later down the road.

So:
With it being a wireless device, how reliably does it connect and stay connected? Bluetooth can be a bugger sometimes, but not always.
The manual says it can be wrapped in something to buffer turbulence. Will a nomex blanket do the job?
Any known issues with it?

I guess I am really looking for any reason NOT to get the thing, because I will probably pull the trigger sometime this week.

Thanks folks,
Mikey D

#### John Beans

##### Founder, Jolly Logic
TRF Supporter
You can download and play with the app now ("AltimeterThree", one word) before you buy. That will give you an idea of the features. Apple or Android. I think it's still the only Apple-approved altimeter, and the latest versions are "Chute Release-aware."
Most people have no issues, but due to the nature of Bluetooth there are occasional connection glitches, and I'm hoping the new Apple and Android versions of the app smooth some of that out. Email me if you need help, of course.

#### CzTeacherMan

##### Well-Known Member
So this gadget has been out for a little over a year now. I am very close to buying one. But I thought I would ask around and see what kind of experiences some of the folks here are having with it. I have a RRC2+ and Adept22 to handle the dual deploy and record max altitude on some of my rockets. But on some it is impractical to build a dedicated bay just to get the max altitude of a rocket, my Big Daddy comes to mind. Sure it has a nice big nose cone to fit a bay, but I don't always need that extra weight up front; or the hassle of setting up a dedicated bay, until I try HED on it. But that is later down the road.

So:
With it being a wireless device, how reliably does it connect and stay connected? Bluetooth can be a bugger sometimes, but not always.
The manual says it can be wrapped in something to buffer turbulence. Will a nomex blanket do the job?
Any known issues with it?

I guess I am really looking for any reason NOT to get the thing, because I will probably pull the trigger sometime this week.

Thanks folks,
Mikey D
The Jolly Logic Altimeter 3 is pretty freaking sweet. If you like getting all the detailed data about each phase of flight, it's the way to go. I've had some little buggy issues with connecting, but never go the point where it prevented me from connecting and getting data. I like getting more detailed info than simply max altitude. I sometimes use an RRC3 to get full data on flights, but several of my Sport rockets aren't rigged for that, so the A3 is there. The Bluetooth connection makes it easy to grab data as soon as you walk up to the rocket instead of waiting to get home. Sharing data and charts is super simple from the app, so detailed flight charts shared with friends on Facebook is a snap. Honestly, it's a sweet gadget. Hyper useful for low power and mid power. Very useful for high power. It only becomes redundant when a rocket already has a full DD setup. Even then, I sometimes add it just so I can grab data on-site. If you get one, you'll find tons of uses. Then when you forget it at home, you'll miss it.

#### Coop

##### Well-Known Member
I've had difficulty in getting useful data from it bluetoothed to my iPhone 5. There has been an update since then to the JL app. I cannot confirm if the update solved anything related to my issue (failure to detect flight). Like you, I didn't want to go building bays for small HPR rockets that are set up as single deploy. I didn't even care about altitude; I wanted to track descent rates with some of the large streamers I've been making and a couple of parachutes I'd made so I could get reasonable accuracy in future sims.

Later!

--Coop

#### John Beans

##### Founder, Jolly Logic
TRF Supporter
I've had difficulty in getting useful data from it bluetoothed to my iPhone 5. There has been an update since then to the JL app. I cannot confirm if the update solved anything related to my issue (failure to detect flight).
Let me know if you continue to have any issues. There's not really a "flight detect" thing going on (like AltimeterTwo has), since it just starts recording when you tell it to. But if it has trouble downloading the flight or analyzing it, lemme know via email at Jolly Logic (john@jollylogic.com).

#### MikeyDSlagle

##### Well-Known Member
I downloaded the app some time back just to see if it worked on my phone. Doesn't seem to be I can do with it without the Alt3 however, but it seems to work, will need to update it.

CzTeacherMan,
You seem to be thinking just like me. More than likely I'll have it ride along on most of my flights. To me rocketry is more than up and down, I like knowing how high, how fast and so on. With two altimeters already, I can't see buying another just yet for logging purposes because, like I say, more A/V bays to build and wire. And it'll be a good compliment to a Chute Release when I finally get one.

"Chute Release-aware". What does that do exactly?

I think I'm sold. Last night I decided to build my Tembo with a 54MMT, so I'll need to visit Madcow and I'll just drop one in my cart.

Oh does it come with stickers? I gotta have stickers! Lol

Thanks folks.

#### John Beans

##### Founder, Jolly Logic
TRF Supporter
"Chute Release-aware" means that it will display an initial descent rate under drogue (or tumbling) and then a second descent rate right before landing, and label them right there on the altitude chart for easy reference (as well as on the Info page and in the Flight Log and Flight Report spreadsheets).

In addition to helping you size your drogue and main parachutes, it can also help you perfect your folding and attachment of Chute Release, because you can see on the graph how long it took your chute to inflate after opening (assume Chute Release opened on time, then look for the bend in the altitude chart).

#### John Beans

##### Founder, Jolly Logic
TRF Supporter
Oh does it come with stickers? I gotta have stickers! Lol
Yeah, I need to so some stickers. Be nice to toss a sheet in with each order.

#### blackwing94

##### Well-Known Member
I've been using the Jolly Logic 3 altimeter for about 4 months now. The only time it didn't record anything (my L1 flight of all things) it was my own fault. I forgot to check if the battery needed recharging. I use it with an iphone 5s and it connects every time. I've never had a blue tooth problem. I loop the little critter onto my nose cone attachment on every flight. I should probably pad it somehow, but it's never failed me yet.

Now if the chute release would also do the Alt 3 stuff..... that would be sweet!!!

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#### MikeyDSlagle

##### Well-Known Member
I've been using the Jolly Logic 3 altimeter for about 4 months now. The only time it didn't record anything (my L1 flight of all things) it was my own fault. I forgot to check if the battery needed recharging. I use it with an iphone 5s and it connects every time. I've never had a blue tooth problem. I loop the little critter onto my nose cone attachment on every flight. I should probably pad it somehow, but it's never failed me yet.

Now if the chute release would also do the Alt 3 stuff..... that would be sweet!!!
Shoot yeah! Take all my money Mr Beans.
I'll be getting an Alt3 very soon..and then I will probably make some sort of overly complicated mount for it just because..lol

Thanks for the info folks.

#### MikeyDSlagle

##### Well-Known Member
Yeah I know I can get a mount for it, but I over engineer everything, its just what I do. The E-Bay I'm working on now has got aluminum conduit lol.

#### dford

Highly recommend getting used to hitting "record" right after you hook up ignition leads. If you wait until you walk away to the launch controller, odds are you are too far from the device (if following NAR safety) for it to connect and record.

Make it a habit or else you will be let down when you don't want to. It is an awesome product with very insightful data to compare and adjust past/present flights when used properly.

#### woferry

##### Well-Known Member
I treat the A3 like any deployment altimeter, and ensure it's 'armed' (set to record) once the rocket is in position on the rail but before wiring up my ignitor. Ensures that I don't forget it, and also ensures that if something goes wrong during/after the ignitor is clipped that it won't miss the flight. My general process is on-board camera powered-on (if there is one, may as well capture the entire setup procedure, has helped me review my process later on), rocket loaded onto rail and angle checked, altimeters armed, ignitor wired & tested, take photos and ready to launch!

#### BEC

##### Well-Known Member
Yeah I know I can get a mount for it, but I over engineer everything, its just what I do. The E-Bay I'm working on now has got aluminum conduit lol.
Ah - gotcha. Have fun.

Also agree with the "get in the habit of starting the recording as part of your pad routine" discussion. I've missed a couple of flights because I forgot to start it.

#### ksaves2

Ah - gotcha. Have fun.

Also agree with the "get in the habit of starting the recording as part of your pad routine" discussion. I've missed a couple of flights because I forgot to start it.
I hate when that happens. On an unrelated note, when setting an older version of the Beeline GPS tracker to start recording when the G-switch senses the launch, if one
"jostles" the rocket with the tracker on, it starts recording and runs out of space before the launch actually takes place! It still works as an APRS/GPS tracker
but no usable .kml file is had after finding the rocket. Newer ones have more memory.

Some of the older deployment altimeters that stored a single flight to memory, if one didn't download the prior flight, the events would function on the next flight but the flight information wouldn't be stored.
I hated that especially when I used a larger motor and the flight remained unrecorded.

Kurt

#### John Beans

##### Founder, Jolly Logic
TRF Supporter
Not to go too far off on a tangent (I realize this is a thread about the current AltimeterThree), but I've considered having AltimeterFour just record all the time (no on/off, no arming). All data always captured. You could even wait until the end of the day (but why would you?) to let your mobile device sort and display the day's flights. You could use it all day, knowing everything was always captured.

#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
Not to go too far off on a tangent (I realize this is a thread about the current AltimeterThree), but I've considered having AltimeterFour just record all the time (no on/off, no arming). All data always captured. You could even wait until the end of the day (but why would you?) to let your mobile device sort and display the day's flights. You could use it all day, knowing everything was always captured.
Memory -is- really really cheap these days. 8 hrs recording? 12? Can we have a marathon, most launches on a single airframe fr. sunrise to sunset?

#### BEC

##### Well-Known Member
Yeah, I imagine battery capacity vs. device size/cost would be the real constraint.

....but I thought AltimeterFour was that tiny little thing you are working on, John (?)

#### MikeyDSlagle

##### Well-Known Member
Good advice folks. As of yet, I haven't flown with any kind of electronics, but I will soon. I know I'll need some sort of checklist until I get the hang of it.

Seems like an always on device would result in a lot of data to dig through. Unless it went to sleep until you moved it or something like that. A proximity trigger maybe. Put a trigger device in the rocket nose cone so when the Alt4 begs close it would automatically wake up.

#### John Beans

##### Founder, Jolly Logic
TRF Supporter
Good advice folks. As of yet, I haven't flown with any kind of electronics, but I will soon. I know I'll need some sort of checklist until I get the hang of it.

Seems like an always on device would result in a lot of data to dig through. Unless it went to sleep until you moved it or something like that. A proximity trigger maybe. Put a trigger device in the rocket nose cone so when the Alt4 begs close it would automatically wake up.
To be useful, it would sort all of that out automatically in the background. You'd make sure it (or copies of it) rode along in every flight. You'd see the results accumulate ( fully analyzed) without effort or "remembering to turn it on."

#### Kallahan11

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
What you need to do John is integrate Altimeter 3 into a chute release.

BTW love the altimeter 3, I was able to get flight results from a rocket that was hanging off of power lines (Luckily the wind blew it off over night and I was able to retrieve my $30 rocket with its$100 altimeter).

#### ksaves2

To be useful, it would sort all of that out automatically in the background. You'd make sure it (or copies of it) rode along in every flight. You'd see the results accumulate ( fully analyzed) without effort or "remembering to turn it on."
Yup, There would need to be some sort of software processing that would go right to the flights and ignore the background. I found it a pain with the earlier Beeline GPS to scroll page after page looking for the flight, cutting it out and pasting it someplace else. Some of the stuff was so clumsy to program, I witnessed quite a few fliers that use the device just bought it pre-programmed with their callsign and nothing else. How does one tell? A lot of "flying house" icons seen on a tracking map and they when I ask they say it's too hard to program. Kurt

#### John Beans

##### Founder, Jolly Logic
TRF Supporter
Yeah, I imagine battery capacity vs. device size/cost would be the real constraint.

....but I thought AltimeterFour was that tiny little thing you are working on, John (?)
It is.

#### dford

Im not sure what A4 entails but I can say A3 is pretty sweet. I will say the whole checklist is a must. Make sure to "record" right after ignitier is installed.

As critical as I have been of A3 and greatful as I am to have the update, in which I am totally greatful for. I'm not sure if it is people perspective or A3 perspective but at 2100' EVERYONE from LCO down said the delay should have been set shorter yet A3 said the delay was on point.
I tend to believe A3.
In my opinion the A4 could go the other way without continuous recording yet with dual deploy + tracking in a simplified version.
Unless of course from a business perspective individual A4, A5, A6 etc. Makes money of each individual aspect of rocketry.
It would though be super nice to have tracking, dual deploy and all past features in one JL device at once. I know I'd pay for it.

Back on track with A3, I launched a very near unstable rocket with a camera to the side of it rendering it unstable. It biffed it to say the least. I found the nose cone 50' from the from the body tune. Luckily found the altimeter laying lonely on the lake bead far else where. It didn't work at the time. I walked it all back to my car. Opened the A3 unplugged the screen and battery (after several attempts to get it on and working) plugged it back in to the circuit board and it worked.

All said A3 is a good product leaning on an even better product.

#### BEC

##### Well-Known Member
As critical as I have been of A3 and greatful as I am to have the update, in which I am totally greatful for. I'm not sure if it is people perspective or A3 perspective but at 2100' EVERYONE from LCO down said the delay should have been set shorter yet A3 said the delay was on point.
I tend to believe A3.
When I first started flying the first-generation AltimeterTwo I found myself disagreeing with its reports on whether the ejection was on time or early and I think I've decided that from the ground I'm just not a good judge of that as I thought.

With AltimeterThree the data are right there on the graph and it's really impossible to argue with. After all, A2 and A3 have the accelerometers aboard the rocket....and I'm just trying to judge when it appears to stop climbing and starting to descend from the ground.

We had a huge Cub Scout pack at yesterday's BEMRC launch so after Ryan's Flying V Guitar flew (the first model in the air) I was really busy with Scouts and families so I only put up two flights of my own, one with A3 aboard (Big Bertha, C6-3). It told me not only was the ejection early but also that the delay was really only 2.45 seconds.

#### BDB

##### Absent Minded Professor
I flew my first flight with the A3 this weekend and loved it. It was on my daughter's Estes LGM with the additional Estes booster, D12-0 + B6-4. The flight was really impressive (particularly for a little E2X kit), but the data was even better!

My only question is about the 2-stage flight. I'm a multistage junkie, so I'd love to get data about each of the two stages. Is it possible for the A3 to detect the burnout of the booster and the delay before sustainer ignition? I'm particularly interested because I'm planning to push in to HPR multistage next year, and I'd love to use the A3 as a data recorder in addition to the usual staging electronics.

#### BEC

##### Well-Known Member
My only question is about the 2-stage flight. I'm a multistage junkie, so I'd love to get data about each of the two stages. Is it possible for the A3 to detect the burnout of the booster and the delay before sustainer ignition? I'm particularly interested because I'm planning to push in to HPR multistage next year, and I'd love to use the A3 as a data recorder in addition to the usual staging electronics.
Look at the acceleration graphs and you can see what's going on. Here is the graph as exported by the email sharing function of a flight of my SuperNova, flown C6-0 to C6-5. Also attached is a screen cap of zooming in on the beginning of the graph on my iPhone.

It is interesting to see that the events labels shows burnout of the first stage but not of the second. I guess John's still working on making the A3 multistage aware as well as Chute Release aware .

Added: depending on the orientation of the A3 in your model, you might get even clearer data from only one axis of the accelerometers rather than combined acceleration that I've shown in these pictures. Or you can look at the Excel file. For this particular flight, in looking at the Excel file, it appears that there is about 0.2 seconds between the end of useful thrust on the first stage and just under 1G acceleration from the beginning of the second stage burn. It's up to 14Gs 0.15 second later.

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#### John Beans

##### Founder, Jolly Logic
TRF Supporter
Yes, I've got "multi-stage detect and reporting" on the To Do list.

#### MikeyDSlagle

##### Well-Known Member
I got my Alt3 today, well I got it a few days ago, but wasn't home. We've had a little rain lately so I couldn't test it on my drone but I did a little test on my couch just to get a graph and seen if it works.

I thought it gave velocity and such? Granted my test was very limited but i didn't see anything about velocity.

What am I missing?