JLCR - Nomex burrito, inside or outside?

[Zyzzyva1000]

Out of curiosity, does anyone put their JCLR around the nomex burrito rather than inside of it? I have always wrapped the JLCR/chute bundle up with the nomex covering the entire thing, but with larger chutes I am starting to notice a problem. It seems that sometimes with big chutes sometimes during the 'drogue' portion of the descent parts of the chute start to come loose and I think it has led to a few tangles for me. I think that keeping the entire thing as a bundle wrapped tightly with the nome would alleviate this, but then the JLCR is outside of the nomex.

Now I do have one of the nomex/kevlar protectors for the JLCR, but it seems to me that still leaves at least part of it exposed to ejection gases. Does anyone just do it like this? Or are people using a second recovery blanket? Or do I just need to figure out how to better back my chutes so nothing can come unfurled. The particularly problematic one is an 8 ft chute for a 6" big daddy - its just hard to keep that much chute completely bound without something wrapped around it.

 

[allensmith]

I have a protective pouch for my JLCR also, but I always have the nomex blanket wrapped around the JLCR/chute bundle. I'm also not working with parachutes as large as you are, yet, but I have noticed that if I fold and roll the chute and the lines I get better results. When I have folded the lines in the chute, then rolled it, the lines tended to slip out, leaving the chute (still bound by the JLCR) to spin and basically reef the lines. At the desired altitude, the JLCR releases and the parachute opens to a tiny balloon looking object that doesn't catch much air. Rolled as one, I don't have any issues. When I've tried to fold the lines in with the chute, it's been problematic.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

I have a protective pouch for my JLCR also, but I always have the nomex blanket wrapped around the JLCR/chute bundle. I'm also not working with parachutes as large as you are, yet, but I have noticed that if I fold and roll the chute and the lines I get better results. When I have folded the lines in the chute, then rolled it, the lines tended to slip out, leaving the chute (still bound by the JLCR) to spin and basically reef the lines. At the desired altitude, the JLCR releases and the parachute opens to a tiny balloon looking object that doesn't catch much air. Rolled as one, I don't have any issues. When I've tried to fold the lines in with the chute, it's been problematic.

So you just fold the lines on the outside of the chute so the lines are completely unfurled but the chute is still wrapped until the JLCR opens?

 

[sharkbait]

So you just fold the lines on the outside of the chute so the lines are completely unfurled but the chute is still wrapped until the JLCR opens?

You will get a lot of people that will tell you not to do this and to pack your chute like skydiver riggers do, but I have done this on chutes from 2’ to 28’ and have never had a fouled chute or a chute that didn’t fully deploy. Have used JLCR on chutes up to 120”, JLCR in pouch, chute in nomex blanket, JLCR wrapped on outside of blanketed bundle.

1. Fold your gores in left to right and right to left to create a triangle
2. Z fold the triangle
Roll the Z fold from top to bottom where the lines are
3. Wrap the lines around the chute
4. Burrito wrap the chute with your blanket
5. Hook up your JLCR around the burrito

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

You will get a lot of people that will tell you not to do this and to pack your chute like skydiver riggers do, but I have done this on chutes from 2’ to 28’ and have never had a fouled chute or a chute that didn’t fully deploy. Have used JLCR on chutes up to 120”, JLCR in pouch, chute in nomex blanket, JLCR wrapped on outside of blanketed bundle.

1. Fold your gores in left to right and right to left to create a triangle
2. Z fold the triangle
Roll the Z fold from top to bottom where the lines are
3. Wrap the lines around the chute
4. Burrito wrap the chute with your blanket
5. Hook up your JLCR around the burrito

That sounds a lot like Estes tells you to fold their plastic chutes. When you say to wrap the lines around the chute, you mean just multiple wraps around it?

 

[sharkbait]

That sounds a lot like Estes tells you to fold their plastic chutes. When you say to wrap the lines around the chute, you mean just multiple wraps around it?

Yep

 

[Tractionengines]

The particularly problematic one is an 8 ft chute for a 6" big daddy - its just hard to keep that much chute completely bound without something wrapped around it.

Have you ever used deployment bags? They're great for this size chute. (Anything bigger than 3ft, gets one for most of my stuff.) They pack quicker and more consistently than fold and wrap. The shroud lines are neatly organized. It can work with a JLCR. (Get ones with the flap and use the JLCR to hold it closed.)

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

Have you ever used deployment bags? They're great for this size chute. (Anything bigger than 3ft, gets one for most of my stuff.) They pack quicker and more consistently than fold and wrap. The shroud lines are neatly organized. It can work with a JLCR. (Get ones with the flap and use the JLCR to hold it closed.)

I have not, though I have been a bit curious. I know someone in my club has some he said I could borrow. Maybe I will have to try that. For my DD stuff I have my nomex burrito game pretty spot on, it's just for the rockets where I don't have DD and use the JLCR that I need it. Any issues with the JLCR outside of the protection of the bag? I guess that has been my real question all along.

 

[Tractionengines]

Any issues with the JLCR outside of the protection of the bag? I guess that has been my real question all approach.

Sorry I though you said you had some issues with the bundle coming apart too, and tangled lines. The bag is the best fix for that.

I still protect the recovery system with a burrito style wrap. (And usually a little "dog barf", to take the direct hit from the flames.) I would not directly expose the JLCR to the ejection charge. I have the old Dino-Chutes pouch for it, and that does well. (You said you have a pouch right?) If thats all the protection, then a little Estes type wadding over it loosely, is a belt-n-suspenders approch.

 

[Biodragen]

I have a pouch that my JLCR goes into. I fold chute up with cords inside. I also don't use the rubber bands they come with but I use hair ties because they don't pinch and cause issues. then it gets wrapped up in Nomex. For my low to Mid is what I use it on and do not use it if there is a drogue which defeats the purpose of the drogue and main..
I was told by JL that they need to be protected from the ejection charges all the time as the soot gets inside and will cause issue, ask me how I know.

 

[jahall4]

Out of curiosity, does anyone put their JCLR around the nomex burrito rather than inside of it? I have always wrapped the JLCR/chute bundle up with the nomex covering the entire thing, but with larger chutes I am starting to notice a problem. It seems that sometimes with big chutes sometimes during the 'drogue' portion of the descent parts of the chute start to come loose and I think it has led to a few tangles for me. I think that keeping the entire thing as a bundle wrapped tightly with the nome would alleviate this, but then the JLCR is outside of the nomex.

Now I do have one of the nomex/kevlar protectors for the JLCR, but it seems to me that still leaves at least part of it exposed to ejection gases. Does anyone just do it like this? Or are people using a second recovery blanket? Or do I just need to figure out how to better back my chutes so nothing can come unfurled. The particularly problematic one is an 8 ft chute for a 6" big daddy - its just hard to keep that much chute completely bound without something wrapped around it.

You need to immobilize the chute pack, so it does not flop around in the airstream. Several years ago, I suspected, then observed via in flight video that this can happen, I, and others, have fixed the problem using what we call a "Recovery Sled" Here is a flight using one for the backup main, that's right triunal deployment using a JLCR. Watch till the end.

 

[Zman1961]

have a pouch that my JLCR goes into. I fold chute up with cords inside. I also don't use the rubber bands they come with but I use hair ties because they don't pinch and cause issues. then it gets wrapped up in Nomex. For my low to Mid is what I use it on and do not use it if there is a drogue which defeats the purpose of the drogue and main..
I was told by JL that they need to be protected from the ejection charges all the time as the soot gets inside and will cause issue, ask me how I know.

Valkarie Recovery Sytems (https://www.valkyrierecoverysystems.com/) sells the little Nomex pouches for the JLCR similar to what Dino Chutes had, and they are very reasonably priced, as well as other good recovery supplies. Great service, by the way. I also have adpoted the use of hair bands instead of the typical rubber bands and have had excellent results. On HPR, I use the old Dino Chutes guide chute to keep everything from spinning and tangling on the way down, before the chute release does its thing. Another thing I have had success with is to attach a smaller Nomex blanket (size depends on tube diameter) on the recovery harness that slides down to the top of the motor tube. I use a yard stick to get it in position before packing the rest of the harness and the chute(s). It acts as a baffle. I use a blanket for the chute burrito as well.

 

[allensmith]

So you just fold the lines on the outside of the chute so the lines are completely unfurled but the chute is still wrapped until the JLCR opens?

Sorry for the confusion and the delay in responding. (I've been sidetracked dealing with Helene cleanup, chaos and recovery. I still have family and coworkers without power or running water and with trees on their homes. I know many of us do. We have been fortunate and blessed to have been only "inconvenienced" by the destruction. Others have not been as fortunate. Please pray for those still affected. Donate to good relief organizations like MercuryOne, Samaritan's Purse, and Red Cross if you feel lead to.)

I was wanting to convey that one method of folding my chute was more successful with the JLCR than the other.

When I lay the the shroud lines inside the final fold of the parachute and then roll it, the shroud lines have slipped loose. The parachute is still bound, but it is now spinning the lines so that when it opens, it is effectively reefed.

The more successful method for me is doing a z-fold and then rolling the chute. Keep rolling it so that the lines roll up around the outside. (I tend to keep rolling the lines instead of just grabbing the lines and wrapping. Wrapping will introduce twist in the lines that rolling does not.) With the JLCR attached, the chute and the lines are securely bound. You can see that I've switched to hair ties rather than rubber bands as well. They do work better, but when I bought them I had to hide them in my rocketry stuff so my girls would quit getting them.

The first two images illustrate the problematic way I've encountered. The second two images illustrate the successful method and the final one shows the burrito wrap after it is all done. This rocket (Amarok) has a baffle, but this is how I flew it on my L1 certification flight with a bigger parachute in the 4" airframe (SuperDX3), no baffle.

I hope this clears things up and I'm glad to see you already have good help from everyone else here. I had no doubts. I like the idea of a "recovery sled" to keep everything from flapping around.

 

[jahall4]

... I like the idea of a "recovery sled" to keep everything from flapping around.

... and it does just that. Here are some pics of various packs: