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Jane's query..

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Silverleaf

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Ok, so call me a moron ahead of time, but I've scoured Jane's website, searched every nook and cranny of it, and still nada. I can't find the answer to this question and I even sent them an email and didn't recieve a reply - as of yet.

So I thought I'd ask you, my Rocketry family. This might get longwinded, so I apologize in advance.

I was looking through Pete's ROTW and he has a note for the Argentina Orion 2, stating refernce material for his drawing came from Jane's Aircraft of The World 1971-72 version, page 580. Which I knew, but thats not my problem...

What I'm wondering is, IF I buy the any version besides the 1971-72 version of Jane's book (its an annual event) would I find the Orion listed in there, along with the newer rockets/missiles that have been added..

Let me clarify - say I buy the 1989 version, will I find older rockets and missiles in it, like the Orion 2 from the 1971 version ?

OR

Would I have to go and buy every darn book in the series to cover all the Rocket's and missiles that they originally covered, and have stopped including in the newer updated versions ?


I do know they produce a Missile and Rocket book, but if you've not checked out their online source, we're talking 1400 (!!) bucks for a subscription to THAT section, and only access to the last 5 year's archives. On top of that, I can't find any information that tells me their Missiles and Rockets book contains anything worth my time and money.

I have their WW2 airplanes books, great resource, but I can't even find a fricking index on their site that tells me what is included in their annual Hard bound books before I go bidding on Ebay.

Sorry, I'm a bit ..nay a lot..miffed at their site right now..lol

Any ideas would be much appreciated. 8)
 

graylensman

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Hmmm. I wonder if that might be on micro-storage of some sort at the public library? I may try to check tomorrow.
 

Silverleaf

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Grey,

I've got a search going at the moment through my library through Inter-library loan. He's trying to find a couple different year's for me so I can compare and see.

Hopefully Monday or so Jane's will contact me and give me the 411.

Many thanks,
 

powderburner

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Originally posted by Silverleaf
What I'm wondering is, IF I buy the any version besides the 1971-72 version of Jane's book (its an annual event) would I find the Orion listed in there, along with the newer rockets/missiles that have been added..
The way Jane's works is: the reference book published for a given year is supposed to include hardware that is IN PRODUCTION THAT YEAR. Sometimes they will include older systems that are still being upgraded or improved, but no they don't include everything that's ever been built or else those books would be about 19 feet thick.

To find data in a Jane's on a specific missile from that far back, you are going to have to go to a library that maintains a back collection of those books. Give me a chance to look during the next work week and I will go into the company library and do a little digging.
 

bobkrech

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Here's a picture of the Argentine Orion-2

http://www.skyrocket.de/space/index_frame.htm?[url]http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_lau/orion2.htm[/url]

http://yellowjacketsystems.com/alway/dataphoto.htm

Some of the Argentine rockets were launched from Wallops.

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/orion1.htm

It is not related to the current USA Orion sounding rocket which is based on the retired Hawk missile

http://www.skyrocket.de/space/index_frame.htm?[url]http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_lau/orion.htm[/url]

http://yellowjacketsystems.com/alway/photos/Orion-first-round.jpg

Try a google search with "orion sounding rocket" and "argentina sounding rocket"

you will probably get more info on missles at http://www.fas.org
than Jane's - also check out their references

Bob Krech
 

Silverleaf

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First off, many thanks for all the links. 8)

In general, I'm not searching for the Orion 2, but images and information on missiles and rockets that don't have a lot of coverage. I was just using the Orion 2 as the example here to try and understand how Jane's worked their publications, and possibly locate one book that has all of their past missile/rocket images and information available. 8)

My reasoning was that Jane's might be a suitable source, given their long history of publishing known data. Its becoming even harder to find quality images and data on many rockets, and even the online sources have slim pickings for many designs.

Sure, I give a huge thanks to Pete Alway for his work on ROTW, but there are many rockets and missiles that need images found and saved.

I've spent too many hours emailing corporations whom developed certain systems, and not recieving replies, or unfortunately having the contact person for said company not have the interest to help with a search of their archives.

So my hope is to locate quality source images and add them to what I hoped would be a new area here at TRF - a Resources section.

Thanks again guys..8)
 

sandman

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OK...see...

We NEED a "Scale" section!

sandman
 

Silverleaf

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Yes we do ..comeon friendly moderators and webmaster..pretty please ??
 

graylensman

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Okay, bad news...

Went to the city library downtown at lunch today. They did indeed have Jane's for 71-72. The kind lady went into the basement where such things are kept. The Argentina Astronautica Orion II is listed: but only three paragraphs of data. No photos. :mad:

Oh well.
 

powderburner

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I found the same thing as graylensman, there isn't a whole lot of info included in Jane's ATWA.

What there is, is transcribed below, in case you are curious. It is the same description and almost the same specs that appeared in the '70-71 issue, and the '69-70 issue. The '67-68 issue has a bit more description of the basic Orion I (shorter and lighter, essentially). Please excuse the goofy British spelling (I sure wish someone would teach them the English language).

Jane's can only print what information the manufacturer provides. Their reference books are more of a 'compendium' and Jane's does not appear to have the resources to perform their own research, photography, and drafting. If Fabrica Militar De Aviones turns in a half-page description, that's the most that Jane's will print.

I can not recommend that you try to purchase a set of these merely for reference use in a scale forum. You probably cannot even find the older volumes anyway.

On to the data (I hope I got it all correct):

I.I.A.E. Orion II

The Orion II is a single-stage composite-propellant sounding rocket capable of carrying a 55 lb. (25 kg.) payload to a height of 51 nm (59 miles; 95 km). It is fin-stabilised and has a parachute recovery system for the payload.

Development of Orion II was completed with a series of four launches at the C.E.L.P.A. at Chamical in August-September 1966. Subsequently, three Orion II's were launched at Tartagal (Salta-Argentina) to investigate cosmic radiation during the solar eclipse of November 1966, carrying payloads developed by the I.I.A.E. Radiation Laboratory.

Three more Orion II's were launched at Wallops Island, Virginia, USA, to verify their performance. In one of these launches, the payload descent was slowed by parachute, enabling it to be recovered by helicopter, using the air-snatch technique, at a height of 2,625 ft (800 m) above sea level. This was the first occasion on which a payload had been recovered in the air at Wallops Island.

DIMENSIONS:
Length overall . . . 13 ft 1.6 in (4.00 m)
Length of payload section . . . 4 ft 5.5 in (1.36 m)
Body diameter . . . 8.11 in (20.6 cm)
Span of fins . . . 2 ft 8 in (0.81 m)

WEIGHTS:
Launching weight . . . 308.6 lb (140 kg)
Payload . . . 55 lb (25 kg)

PERFORMANCE:
Max ceiling . . . 51 nm (59 miles; 95 km)
Speed at burn-out . . . 3,300 knots (3,800 mph; 1,700 m/sec)
Height at burn-out . . . 21,325 ft (6,500 m)
 

graylensman

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Yeah, that's the data I found too. I was looking for a good shot of markings to help me make a clean set for decal purposes.
 

Silverleaf

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Thanks guys for your help. 8)

At least now I know that their books wouldn't be of much help for Scale data...but, I still have a new query with Janes in regards to their Missiles and Rockets annual. I've found a copy online for 230 bucks no less, and one other reference thats to an out of print nomenclature.

They also make a Space Directory, which I may take a look at locally then decide whether such a book would be of any value for this process, before I bid for one on Ebay. 8)

There are a few other companies out there that produced Aircraft books, so it looks like I might have to write a few and see if they have anything better thanwhat Jane's has to offer.

Thanks again for all of your help, really appreciate it, as you saved me bidding on some of these books on Ebay.

With kind regards,

R.S.
 
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