I've been told not to mix rattlecan paint brands... so I didn't!

[DeltaVee]

The sad reality is *I know better*. I know better than to trust any paint name that starts with the letter "K". A friend I trust (who is quite the artist when it comes to paint on a rocket) mentioned that, being tired of how long Rusto 2x can take to dry, tried Krylon Fusion gloss white. I decided to try it out and got VERY good results... almost like the old Krylon 5-ball paint. It only tended to run when I over-did an area and it dries to the touch in an hour and is handle-able in two. A decent finish. So I used said paint on my estes leviathan clone... I then used Rusto (NOT 2x!) metallic dark bronze for the forward section (in a semi-traditional look... could not find metallic charcoal like the instructions said) and was VERY pleased by the outcome. Emboldened by this, I gave my Estes Sahara (which was dark flat gray for the longest time) a sanding treatment after some repairs and worked it over with the same Krylon Fusion gloss white. I then layed out a masking pattern on the forward section and got a can of *Krylon Fusion Metallic black*.... SAME brand, SAME type - what could go wrong?. It went on just as easily... no runs... more than 7 days after the coat of white! I have seen the results (curdling!) of not waiting long enough between coats.... lacquer on top of enamel... etc. I've NEVER seen it go like this:



What this looks like is similar to the worst case of poison ivy I ever had in my life. The entire surface (that isn't masked!) is covered in thousands of tiny blisters! When I've seen paint compatibility issues before it's generally this bizarre curdling effect... And while it is a bit warm today, there is literally zero wind outside.... (it also bears a similarity with the effect you get when you spray on a windy day!)

Now I have a bit of sanding to do... sigh.

Friends don't let friends use Krylon... I'm going back to rusto because I'm too cheap to use duplicolor (2x the price of rusto 2x here where I live) or tamiya.

 

[James Duffy]

Tamiya paint works so, so well, but I appreciate your concerns about cost.

General wisdom holds that paint overcoats need either a chemical bond with the underlying layer, or a mechanical bond. You were right to wait seven days before overcoating, but I suspect that the gloss white layer provided nothing for the metallic layer to grab on to, leading to the bubbling.

I'm stealing "poison ivy," BTW. That's a great term to describe the bubbling phenomenon.

James

 

[DeltaVee]

Tamiya paint works so, so well, but I appreciate your concerns about cost.

General wisdom holds that paint overcoats need either a chemical bond with the underlying layer, or a mechanical bond. You were right to wait seven days before overcoating, but I suspect that the gloss white layer provided nothing for the metallic layer to grab on to, leading to the bubbling.

I'm stealing "poison ivy," BTW. That's a great term to describe the bubbling phenomenon.

James

Feel free to use it as you wish... no royalty req'd

This result certainly made me feel just about as miserable... On closer inspection of a D-Region tomahawk I painted... I note what appear to a bubble or two here and there on the three fins I painted onto K-Fusion white, but they are few enough and small enough to not be very noticeable... the red fin (both black and red were Rusto 2x) is totally clean though!

I may just reconsider avoiding Tamiya...

 

[ShadowSpire48]

If you have a Michaels nearby (or better yet a Blick Art Store), go play with some Montana Gold line paints. You'll find it damn near impossible to get it to run and I have NEVER had an issue with compatibility between the colors. I always also use a Rustoleum filler primer underneath. It does take some getting used to when you're learning how to paint with it (bit closer than you're used to) but the amount of colors and the ability to paint when it's like 15-20 degrees out is worth the learning curve.

 

[mh9162013]

If you have a Michaels nearby (or better yet a Blick Art Store), go play with some Montana Gold line paints. You'll find it damn near impossible to get it to run and I have NEVER had an issue with compatibility between the colors. I always also use a Rustoleum filler primer underneath. It does take some getting used to when you're learning how to paint with it (bit closer than you're used to) but the amount of colors and the ability to paint when it's like 15-20 degrees out is worth the learning curve.

The problem is that Montana (Germany) paints create an eggshell finish. This may not be a problem, but if you want a mirror finish, Montana is not the way to go.

 

[ShadowSpire48]

The problem is that Montana (Germany) paints create an eggshell finish. This may not be a problem, but if you want a mirror finish, Montana is not the way to go.

Eh from the flight line they all look the same. Slather some Future polish or a 2K clear over it and it's pretty good looking. People who build Estes rockets aren't really looking for a high performance finish in my experience

 

[mh9162013]

People who build Estes rockets aren't really looking for a high performance finish in my experience

Guess I'm an occassional exception, then.

Slather some Future polish or a 2K clear over it and it's pretty good looking.

Do you happen to have a picture of the finish after a good clear coat?

 

[Hobie1dog]

It needs to be pretty, or most people just won't say anything to your face, but are sure to talk about you on the drive home.

 

[DeltaVee]

It needs to be pretty, or most people just won't say anything to your face, but are sure to talk about you on the drive home.

A true friend is someone who says nasty things to your face, rather than behind your back! ;-)

 

[Hobie1dog]

A true friend is someone who says nasty things to your face, rather than behind your back! ;-)

The guy next to us at last years NSL had some of the worst looking rockets I've seen. Looked like a 4 year old with a 4" wide house painting brush did them.

 

[DeltaVee]

The guy next to us at last years NSL had some of the worst looking rockets I've seen. Looked like a 4 year old with a 4" wide house painting brush did them.

My mileage has varied as evidenced by the photo I've posted. I've gotten compliments on some... So it goes. It often seems the better job I do increases the odds of an unfortunate incident! Doesn't stop me from trying though. One fellow who came to one of our launches had a drop dead gorgeous finish on a Loc Graduator (I think!). It was as if the fins were made out of glass. I'll NEVER get that good. At least not if I keep using rattle can pain!

 

[DigBaddy]

The guy next to us at last years NSL had some of the worst looking rockets I've seen. Looked like a 4 year old with a 4" wide house painting brush did them.

We, and others, acquired some rockets from a club member that passed away. One could make comments similar about his finishing on some of them, but these rockets get launched and loved even more every time we get together, and they are wonderfully unique because of how he finished them. That's way cooler than any perfect paint job.

 

[Art Upton]

The sad reality is *I know better*. I know better than to trust any paint name that starts with the letter "K". A friend I trust (who is quite the artist when it comes to paint on a rocket) mentioned that, being tired of how long Rusto 2x can take to dry, tried Krylon Fusion gloss white. I decided to try it out and got VERY good results... almost like the old Krylon 5-ball paint. It only tended to run when I over-did an area and it dries to the touch in an hour and is handle-able in two. A decent finish. So I used said paint on my estes leviathan clone... I then used Rusto (NOT 2x!) metallic dark bronze for the forward section (in a semi-traditional look... could not find metallic charcoal like the instructions said) and was VERY pleased by the outcome. Emboldened by this, I gave my Estes Sahara (which was dark flat gray for the longest time) a sanding treatment after some repairs and worked it over with the same Krylon Fusion gloss white. I then layed out a masking pattern on the forward section and got a can of *Krylon Fusion Metallic black*.... SAME brand, SAME type - what could go wrong?. It went on just as easily... no runs... more than 7 days after the coat of white! I have seen the results (curdling!) of not waiting long enough between coats.... lacquer on top of enamel... etc. I've NEVER seen it go like this:

View attachment 584020

What this looks like is similar to the worst case of poison ivy I ever had in my life. The entire surface (that isn't masked!) is covered in thousands of tiny blisters! When I've seen paint compatibility issues before it's generally this bizarre curdling effect... And while it is a bit warm today, there is literally zero wind outside.... (it also bears a similarity with the effect you get when you spray on a windy day!)

Now I have a bit of sanding to do... sigh.

Friends don't let friends use Krylon... I'm going back to rusto because I'm too cheap to use duplicolor (2x the price of rusto 2x here where I live) or tamiya.

I have had lots of problems with both K brands and Rust Brands no matter what. Cheap is is now ACE hardware spray paint or Duplicolor for nice models Rusto 2X causes huge problems with curdling on the first coat even. I won't let it ruin another model either.

Edit: Following James' advice from a previous NARCON video, I also have used Timyia for some very special models. It was also the only brand I could find in the same color as my Desert Sand Tundra truck.

Did some Der Tundra Max that I need to finish the decals and final recovery on to fly.

 

[Hobie1dog]

This is exactly like an oil thread on any car or motorcycle forum.

 

[James Duffy]

People who build Estes rockets aren't really looking for a high performance finish in my experience

We've not met, have we? <G>

James

 

[Art Upton]

Seems the new 2022 - 2023 desert Tundra have a much lighter color then my 2018, and no V8 anymore like my 5.7 only turbo V6 that will never last as long as an air breather V8. The Record for a Tundra V8 is over a million miles and Toyota bought it from the oil worker with a swap for a brand new Tundra.

My Tundra in 18 at the time was the most USA built parts of all 1500 class trucks beating out the F150 and it was built in Texas as a USA Truck.

My color of the Der Tundra Max , I'm parked in the park by luck next a a TACO [Tacoma] of the same setup and color

 

[flyingeagle]

The old saying with paint is the sniff test. If you can still smell paint it’s still curing.

 

[DeltaVee]

The old saying with paint is the sniff test. If you can still smell paint it’s still curing.

Well in my case, having let the thing sit for about a week, it certainly passed the smell test. I sanded down a portion of the black w/bubbles and saw nice white dots.... so these appear to be actual bubbles... and so I suspect the underlying white coat was not actually attacked. As per Jim Duffy's suggestion, perhaps there was no cohesion to the white underneath... Both the metallic black and white base coat were Krylon Fusion" brand.... I'd like to think that these two would be compatible to SOME degree!

 

[flyingeagle]

I painted mine with Rustoleum X2 primer let it sit in my garage for a week but it still felt a little tacky on the masking tape. I brought it inside being its climate controlled and it finished curing quicker. It sounds like your primer may have bubbled almost like a hammered look of one of Rustoleums type paint. Sounds like there almost was some kind of a coating residue on the tube to keep the paint adhering causing bubbles.

 

[DeltaVee]

I painted mine with Rustoleum X2 primer let it sit in my garage for a week but it still felt a little tacky on the masking tape. I brought it inside being its climate controlled and it finished curing quicker. It sounds like your primer may have bubbled almost like a hammered look of one of Rustoleums type paint. Sounds like there almost was some kind of a coating residue on the tube to keep the paint adhering causing bubbles.

The base coat was gloss white. The metallic black that I applied bubbled. I applied Rust-Oleum metallic bronze over the same brand of gloss white on a different rocket and it was just fine... In the case of the metallic black, it was the same brand as the gloss white... Krylon fusion. Could have been something on the base that prevented good adhesion...

 

[flyingeagle]

I had a conversation with Rustoleum and they said if you’re using Krylon stay with Krylon. If you’re using Rustoleum stay with Rustoleum for projects. Never mix paints. Some I found on certain things you can mix but try a test over primer on cardboard. It sucks when you put a lot of time into a project and it’s ruined.

 

[lakeroadster]

The guy next to us at last years NSL had some of the worst looking rockets I've seen. Looked like a 4 year old with a 4" wide house painting brush did them.

It's an exhibition... not a competition.

We, and others, acquired some rockets from a club member that passed away. One could make comments similar about his finishing on some of them, but these rockets get launched and loved even more every time we get together, and they are wonderfully unique because of how he finished them. That's way cooler than any perfect paint job.

Indeed, and well said. To me, the coolest rockets are the one's that have flown a bunch and show their scars proudly.

And if they are "legacy" rockets... it's borderline criminal to refurbish them for purely cosmetic reasons.

 

[flyingeagle]

I know nothing is perfect but I try to build mine spot on. If a little something is off it bugs me especially a paint job. So far no problems. The only thing that I don’t understand is when someone sprays gray primer on a rocket and sands all it off why?. A lot of work to me! I sand primer smooth to where I just about start to see the body tube becoming exposed. After I fix any imperfections I prim gray again, sand smooth and paint.. So far so good on the finish.

 

[DeltaVee]

I know nothing is perfect but I try to build mine spot on. If a little something is off it bugs me especially a paint job. So far no problems. The only thing that I don’t understand is when someone sprays gray primer on a rocket and sands all it off why?. A lot of work to me! I sand primer smooth to where I just about start to see the body tube becoming exposed. After I fix any imperfections I prim gray again, sand smooth and paint.. So far so good on the finish.

I agree... You only need to sand the surface smooth. Of course if you're using filler-primer, and are trying to fill some blemishes, then you might need to go further, and reprime...

 

[twoxsheds]

Those are bubbles not wrinkles or blisters. They happen when you spray paint too heavily. What happens is the compressed gas used as propellant releases as the paint is sprayed from the can. Usually it sublimes away as the paint is sprayed, but if you spray paint too thick or get too close then a heavy film is created that traps the gasses in the paint and they bubble out like bubbles in a soda. Easy solution is to back off and take your time spraying.

This won’t happen if you use a spray gun, it’s a rattle can issue.

Also, any brand of spray paint will do this.

 

[neil_w]

The only thing that I don’t understand is when someone sprays gray primer on a rocket and sands all it off why?

I've been wanting to make these pictures for a while, this is my excuse.

Where primer (usually a high-build primer) is used to fill surface imperfections, here is what's happening:


This is a somewhat idealized view. More commonly it will be like this:


In this case, even if you sand off *all* the primer, there will still be a small divot. And so, you sand the primer almost all off, then apply another coat, and then sand most of *that* off, and repeat, until you end up with this:


Now I have a perfectly smooth surface.

You can (and I sometimes do) leave a thin layer of primer across the entire surface, to act as, you know, "primer", but anything other than a thin layer is just adding weight. Also, filler/primer in particular creates a very rough surface, and you really need to sand it quite a bit before it creates a suitable surface for the top coats.

There are infinite variations in how individual modelers do it, but this is the basic theory.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I paint my rockets to the full 80%.

 

[Hobie1dog]

This won’t happen if you use a spray gun, it’s a rattle can issue.

+1 once you use a gun that will finely the paint and you see how smooth a finish it will lay down, it's hard to go back to a can. Enlightenment is a wonderful thing.

 

[TomLee]

I use Rusto 2X nearly every time but I've started spraying a bit of the plastic cap as well after I finish painting my rocket so I have a test area of the same age as the coat I've just put on. I recently finished my Red Nova and before I sprayed a clear coat on it I tested my new can of Rustoleum Clear Gloss on both the white and the red paint samples on my can caps. The white, which was the first color I painted, curdled with the application of the clear; the red, however, didn't curdle. All of them were Rustoleum paints. So I went back to the local Ace Hardware store and bought the Ace brand clear. Voila! No curdling on either color. The final coat turned out fine. The white had a drying time of about two weeks before I could mask it off in order to paint the red, which then dried another 7-8 days before testing the clear coats.

A couple years ago I finished my Estes Nike Smoke and purchased a can of Krylon Semi-gloss clear for a top coat over the Rustoleum white. I'd heard that it was a good, safe cover. I think I waited a couple weeks before spraying and everything went fine--until a patch on the nose cone curdled. Nowhere else was there any reaction like that. But it was a deep curdling, almost like it interacted with the plastic underneath. Maybe I had too deep a layer of white paint right there. It ruined that nose cone because the curdle happened right over one of the "vents" on the cone; hard to sand the damage away. I'm not sure where to find a replacement cone for it. Over the years I'd never given a second thought to clear top coat incompatibility with base colors--and had had no problems--but that experience taught me to test every time now.