IT'S L2 TIME BABY!!!! - Shockwave 54 Build Thread - Introduction

[Aksrockets]

Drum roll please!

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls may I present to you the beginning of my L2 build!!!!
(slow clap)

I'm going to start this build with a bit of a disclaimer: This will be a very long build. Years. It will be slow, random and possibly boring. I'll be 17 in September, so It will be over a YEAR until I can actually certify (I will be certifying both NAR and TRA). I'm planning on this being one of my few big projects in the next few years. This is going to be what all of my time and money are focused on. So yeah, don't sit tight for this one. You might get bored.

If a certification flight it to prove you know what you're doing, I want to REALLY prove that I know what I'm doing. I know for my L2 I could easily stick a J motor in some rocket I already have, but where's the fun in that? I will have already flown several J and K motors! I want my L2 flight to be different and challenging.

Okay everyone, here is what I'm building.

My SHOCKWAVE 54

This project is inspired by my Shockwave 29, which I built a few years ago. Click on the name to see the project.
If you're too lazy to click the link, I dont blame you. Here's a summary: The Shockwave was my first real experiment with carbon fiber, and composites in general. It was a 29mm MD with a homeade tube and fins with a Shockwave Nosecone (hence the name) It turned out nicely and to this day, It's my favorite rocket I own.



In the spirit of the Shockwave 29, the Shockwave 54 will be the same basic concept.

Bottom line, the Shockwave 54 is a Homemade Carbon Fiber 54mm minimum diameter, with the Loki L1400 in mind.
Yep. The only thing more bad @$$ then an all CF 54 MD is an all CF 54 MD on one of, if not the most powerful 54mm motors in production. :cool2:

Here's some Pics to keep you interested:



Here is a Loki L1400:

-----------------------------------------------------

The general construction plan is as follows:

The lower tube will be 4 wraps of 5.7oz 2x2 twill carbon fiber. (This style of fabric is a personal favorite)

The upper tube will be 6 wraps of 6oz fiberglass. If that seems to flimsy, I'll use G12. The fiberglass is for RF transparency.

The Nosecone is still up for grabs. My original intention was to make a homemade one using a 2 part mold. I have had some experience with molds and my nosecones have turned out alright. However, I may just use a premade one. Some long Ogive or VK.

The Fins will be a homemade as well. I plan on pressing my on CF sheet to use. I will be using Uni-Directional Carbon Fiber to get stiffness only where I need it most. This will reduce the thickness and weight of the fins. The layups will be pressed under several tons to get them as thin as possible.

The Fins will be attached using Aeropoxy. They will be given chopped carbon fiber fillets. In my experience these are insanely strong. They will be given cosmetic/aerodymamic fillets with laminating epoxy and Phenolic Microbaloons.

I'm not sure about T2T. I've seen 54 minimum diameters (Crazy Jim's for Example) fly on Ls without any T2T reinforcement. If it's not necessary, I wont do it. It's up for discussion.

The Electronics are still up for grabs. I want deployment to be redundant, so I will be using two altimeters. I already have an Adept 22, but It might not be up to the task. I was thinking of using a Telemini for both tracking and as the main altimeter.

----------------------------------

Those are the basic construction details. I left very detailed notes in all of the major components in Openrocket. It includes layup schedules and stuff like that.

Here is the Openrocket file. Check it out and play around.

View attachment Alex's L2 L1400.ork

Also, I plan on finishing this to perfection. I'm going to fill every pinhole, sand every scratch and use more sandpaper then I care to think about. It needs to be flawless.

Also, Also. I may do some videos on this build, it just depends on how I feel. I won't make any promises like I did in the SW29 build thread.

Also, Also, Also Wik.

Anyway, sit back and be ready for a long build. I'll make popcorn. op:

Alex

 

[Yoehahn]

Sounds awesome! And aren't you a little young to be quoting Monty python?

 

[REK]

I like good old fashion, so I think this is a great way to step up. I thought you were going to let this one rip on a K2045 lol. That's what I plan to do one day :wink:.

 

[CarVac]

Are you going for maximum performance? If so, you can do better than conventional dual-deploy. You should consider a chute cannon like Adrian Adamson's or an Archetype cable cutter. Also, fewer airframe breaks means cleaner aerodynamics. You could even go all the way, and rear-eject the motor (!) and a bundled chute, for a perfectly clean, streamlined body tube.

 

[Aksrockets]

Are you going for maximum performance? If so, you can do better than conventional dual-deploy. You should consider a chute cannon like Adrian Adamson's or an Archetype cable cutter. Also, fewer airframe breaks means cleaner aerodynamics. You could even go all the way, and rear-eject the motor (!) and a bundled chute, for a perfectly clean, streamlined body tube.

No, This won't be optimized for preformance. Hellfire only has a 25K waiver. Right now I'm expecting about 20k out of this, a little more optimization and I'll have to take it out of state.

Alex

 

[aerostadt]

Good Luck, Alex! You are already beyond me on fiber-glass and graphite stuff. I don't know if I will ever get into all that stuff.

 

[Aksrockets]

Sounds awesome! And aren't you a little young to be quoting Monty python?

Not if you have good parents. I'm glad someone got that!

I like good old fashion, so I think this is a great way to step up. I thought you were going to let this one rip on a K2045 lol. That's what I plan to do one day :wink:.

After my L2 flight, if it all works out I will be flying it on a K2045 as sort of a "victory lap"

Good Luck, Alex! You are already beyond me on fiber-glass and graphite stuff. I don't know if I will ever get into all that stuff.

Thanks. The composites stuff isn't that bad. If you want me to make anything for you, let me know...

Alex

 

[neond7]

No, This won't be optimized for preformance. Hellfire only has a 25K waiver. Right now I'm expecting about 20k out of this, a little more optimization and I'll have to take it out of state.

Alex

Wow..... thats a hella way to score an L2 in style! I wish you the best of luck. If your Shockwave 29 build is any indication of the build quality to be expected on your Shockwave 54, I think you will pull it off! Haven't tried any carbon fiber myself, but then again, my birds don't push the envelope enough to need it.

Looking forward to some build pics.

 

[kenstarr]

Nice nice nice! Looking forward to a nice slow build, my favorite style! For my L2 it was just kind of to get it out of the way so I didn't get too excited with it. For my L3, I plan on a nice very long build. I would like to do fly it at Hellfire in 2014 or 2015 but we'll see. So the moral I'm getting at? Take your time and enjoy it. Keep us posted!
-Ken

 

[Ben Awes]

Good luck! Clearly you know what you are doing! Just got my L2 with an upscale scratch built Mars Lander. It was a great feeling to certify with a rocket that I put a whole lot into. It will be fun to track your build.

Ben
Colossus Rockets

 

[KenRico]

Great name and concept ! Thanks for sharing.

Just met Bandman444 weekend before last - you are both so hands on and ahead of the curve on utilizing these materials. If you got together on a team project, y'all would be unstoppable. 50k, 100k, orbit ??!?

Kenny

 

[Kehoes23]

Sounds awesome! And aren't you a little young to be quoting Monty python?

No way, you are never too young to quote Monty Python
"What is your name?"
"What is your favorite color?"

 

[troj]

I'm going to start this build with a bit of a disclaimer: This will be a very long build. Years. It will be slow, random and possibly boring. I'll be 17 in September, so It will be over a YEAR until I can actually certify (I will be certifying both NAR and TRA). I'm planning on this being one of my few big projects in the next few years. This is going to be what all of my time and money are focused on. So yeah, don't sit tight for this one. You might get bored.

Take your time, have fun with it. The only one who needs to be happy with how long it takes you is you.

The lower tube will be 4 wraps of 5.7oz 2x2 twill carbon fiber. (This style of fabric is a personal favorite)

The upper tube will be 6 wraps of 6oz fiberglass. If that seems to flimsy, I'll use G12. The fiberglass is for RF transparency.

You're totally laying up your own tubes, right? No cardboard/phenolic/whatever core?

The Electronics are still up for grabs. I want deployment to be redundant, so I will be using two altimeters. I already have an Adept 22, but It might not be up to the task. I was thinking of using a Telemini for both tracking and as the main altimeter.

The TeleMetrum as a second altimeter is a great choice -- I finally flew mine this past weekend, and the thing is just incredible! Tracker and altimeter all in one, and a really cool tracker, at that!

Also, I plan on finishing this to perfection. I'm going to fill every pinhole, sand every scratch and use more sandpaper then I care to think about. It needs to be flawless.

If that's what needs to happen to make you happy, then that's what needs to happen!

If you have any components made by the time LDRS rolls around, I'd love to see them.

-Kevin

 

[Handeman]

Drum roll please!

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls may I present to you the beginning of my L2 build!!!!
(slow clap)

I'm going to start this build with a bit of a disclaimer: This will be a very long build. Years. It will be slow, random and possibly boring. I'll be 17 in September, so It will be over a YEAR until I can actually certify (I will be certifying both NAR and TRA). I'm planning on this being one of my few big projects in the next few years. This is going to be what all of my time and money are focused on. So yeah, don't sit tight for this one. You might get bored.

Alex

Don't worry about taking too long. My longest was my second HPR kit. It was 2 years before I got it finished. Just don't forget to update this build whenever you do something.

Good Luck!

 

[oddmanrockets]

keep us updated

 

[blackbrandt]

You have got to be kidding me...

Did the AP fumes get to your brain?


Also, be sure to keep me updated on a few G+ Hangouts, I'd love to see some of the parts you are building!!



Matt

 

[degreaser]

Looks like a great build. I'll definitely be watching. My builds normally take a year it seems, with plenty of scratching of the backside.

Regarding the telemini/telemetrum, I'm sure you've heard that Bdale's house was lost in the CO fire. If you can't get one from existing dealer stock, it could be awhile before they are available again.

 

[Aksrockets]

Wow..... thats a hella way to score an L2 in style! I wish you the best of luck. If your Shockwave 29 build is any indication of the build quality to be expected on your Shockwave 54, I think you will pull it off! Haven't tried any carbon fiber myself, but then again, my birds don't push the envelope enough to need it.

Looking forward to some build pics.

Thank you! You should try CF some time. It's slightly more difficult to work with then FG, but it's all the same concept. People like yourself who have lots of experience with FG wouldn't have a problem working with carbon.

Nice nice nice! Looking forward to a nice slow build, my favorite style! For my L2 it was just kind of to get it out of the way so I didn't get too excited with it. For my L3, I plan on a nice very long build. I would like to do fly it at Hellfire in 2014 or 2015 but we'll see. So the moral I'm getting at? Take your time and enjoy it. Keep us posted!
-Ken

I'm excited for your L3 build, Ken. Knowing you, it probably wont be too hard for ya.

Good luck! Clearly you know what you are doing! Just got my L2 with an upscale scratch built Mars Lander. It was a great feeling to certify with a rocket that I put a whole lot into. It will be fun to track your build.

Ben
Colossus Rockets

Thanks! I saw your Lander project. Very, very cool!

Great name and concept ! Thanks for sharing.

Just met Bandman444 weekend before last - you are both so hands on and ahead of the curve on utilizing these materials. If you got together on a team project, y'all would be unstoppable. 50k, 100k, orbit ??!?

Kenny

I hope I get to be on some group project soon. With bryce's help, I tried to start a group project in my club but no one was interested.

You're totally laying up your own tubes, right? No cardboard/phenolic/whatever core?

That's the plan. Just mylar around a 54mm mandrel. Carbon or FG on top of that.

If that's what needs to happen to make you happy, then that's what needs to happen!

That's what's going to happen. This rocket needs to be beautiful. Time to buy a new "thing" of filler.

Don't worry about taking too long. My longest was my second HPR kit. It was 2 years before I got it finished. Just don't forget to update this build whenever you do something.

Good Luck!

I'll try and update it as much as possible. I'll have my phone out and take pictures of every single step.

Also, be sure to keep me updated on a few G+ Hangouts, I'd love to see some of the parts you are building!!

I will. If you want, we can do one when I lay up one of the tubes.

Looks like a great build. I'll definitely be watching. My builds normally take a year it seems, with plenty of scratching of the backside.

Regarding the telemini/telemetrum, I'm sure you've heard that Bdale's house was lost in the CO fire. If you can't get one from existing dealer stock, it could be awhile before they are available again.

I heard that. I hope Bdale was safe. If necessary, I can use use a normal RF tracker. Like a BRB900 or similar.

Any thoughts on whether or not I need T2T?

Alex

 

[kenstarr]

I hope I get to be on some group project soon. With bryce's help, I tried to start a group project in my club but no one was interested.

Alex

Hey! I'm plenty interested, but I'm too far away, two kids, too much going on, and gas is too expensive. (Hangs head and goes back to work )
-Ken

 

[flynfrog]

My M54 only had glass over the fillets and the fins stayed on for the entire flight. I think Bruce has a 54MD that only has JB Weld Fillets no glass not sure how fast its been.

 

[REK]

My M54 only had glass over the fillets and the fins stayed on for the entire flight. I think Bruce has a 54MD that only has JB Weld Fillets no glass not sure how fast its been.

You used aeropoxy for your fillets right?

 

[flynfrog]

You used aeropoxy for your fillets right?

I did the initial with JBweld then glass bubbles and aeropoxy over the top. Then glass and aeropoxy

 

[REK]

I did the initial with JBweld then glass bubbles and aeropoxy over the top. Then glass and aeropoxy

Interesting, my new M54 has 1/4" radius JB weld fillets and then 3/4" radius 15 minute epoxy over it.

Sorry to de-rail the thread Alex and to make it up and I don't know if you know this already, but this scotch tape doesn't stick to epoxy. I've seen others wax the scotch tape, but I dont know if it is for it not to stick to the epoxy or to just make it more easier to remove the mylar and scotch tape. Either way I've tried it using this scotch tape and it comes off real easy.

 

[troj]

I hope I get to be on some group project soon. With bryce's help, I tried to start a group project in my club but no one was interested.

Group projects are tough, and a lot of folks have seen or had bad experiences with them. They've destroyed more than one club.

What has worked really well for us is that we're a pretty good group of friends, and hang out together at launches all the time anyway. Don't give up.

That's the plan. Just mylar around a 54mm mandrel. Carbon or FG on top of that.

Are you mandrels tapered? Are you bagging or taping the layup afterwards? We've found that on non-tapered mandrels, friction alone can make getting the mandrel out....an adventure.

Any thoughts on whether or not I need T2T?

I can tell you it's the norm, but is it necessary? I don't know. What you're building is outside the realm of what I know really well.

-Kevin

 

[flynfrog]

its tough to find a 54MM mandrel. 2.125 tube is available at Online Metals. You will still need to build up about .010 to get a CTI motor into it. I used peel ply. We don't taper our mandrels at work but we have a pretty big puller.

https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7841&step=4&showunits=inches&id=283&top_cat=197


I have been debating on the T2T. I have come up with I am not trying to set a record. I have a lot of time and money in this thing. Its probably worth the effort to T2T the fins.

 

[Eat, sleep, and Fly]

Any thoughts on whether or not I need T2T?

Alex

It may not be necessary, but it is in question, right? You will be putting a lot of time and effort into this project, so I would lean on the side of safety. CJ's rockets flew without T2T, but remember, they had diamond airfoil fins, which are much less stressful on the root cord than a strait up bevel. Do T2T!

 

[JimJarvis50]

I've had three 54 mm rockets. Two were like this one, and flew many times on L730's and L1030's (but never an L1400).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11803405@N08/2920689086/

The third was this one - optimized for altitude - which flew on K300's.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11803405@N08/5040939224/

Sadly, over the years, all three have met their demise, and your thread has me thinking about a replacement.

A couple of ideas for you. With a carbon tube on the fin can, you should be able to surface-mount the fins without tip-to-tip. One thing you might consider is changing the shape of the fins to allow a reduction in the semi-span (along the lines of the shapes of the fins I used). When you make your tube and fins, use peel ply over the portion where you will attach the fins and retain that texture to help keep the fins attached. Or perhaps even better, sandblast those areas instead. Then, use a healthy radius for your fillet. I'm also a big fan of minimizing tube breaks. I like to slide the electronics bay into position, rather than having a tube break at that location. My 54mm rockets have had one altimeter only (which wasn't a factor in the loss of any of my three rockets).

Jim

 

[REK]

I've had three 54 mm rockets. Two were like this one, and flew many times on L730's and L1030's (but never an L1400).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11803405@N08/2920689086/

The third was this one - optimized for altitude - which flew on K300's.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11803405@N08/5040939224/

Sadly, over the years, all three have met their demise, and your thread has me thinking about a replacement.

A couple of ideas for you. With a carbon tube on the fin can, you should be able to surface-mount the fins without tip-to-tip. One thing you might consider is changing the shape of the fins to allow a reduction in the semi-span (along the lines of the shapes of the fins I used). When you make your tube and fins, use peel ply over the portion where you will attach the fins and retain that texture to help keep the fins attached. Or perhaps even better, sandblast those areas instead. Then, use a healthy radius for your fillet. I'm also a big fan of minimizing tube breaks. I like to slide the electronics bay into position, rather than having a tube break at that location. My 54mm rockets have had one altimeter only (which wasn't a factor in the loss of any of my three rockets).

Jim

I say do it Jim and make a build thread .

 

[REK]

its tough to find a 54MM mandrel. 2.125 tube is available at Online Metals. You will still need to build up about .010 to get a CTI motor into it. I used peel ply. We don't taper our mandrels at work but we have a pretty big puller.

https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7841&step=4&showunits=inches&id=283&top_cat=197


I have been debating on the T2T. I have come up with I am not trying to set a record. I have a lot of time and money in this thing. Its probably worth the effort to T2T the fins.

Why not just use full length couplers as a mandrel?

 

[flynfrog]

Why not just use full length couplers as a mandrel?

for what a coupler costs I can just buy a tube from some one else. MY mandrel cost less than a tube from some one else.