Is this too much for my first LPR?

Discussion in 'Beginners & Educational Programs' started by JoeV10, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. Aug 7, 2018 #1

    JoeV10

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    Hi everyone, new to the forum and I’m hoping this is where this question would go. After messing with a few Estes kits and sugar rockets, I’m looking into building a kit for a Level 1 cert. I’ve been looking a lot at this Kit from mad cow , any thoughts? We have a local club but they don’t launch often and all the website info is from 2013, so I don’t have much guidance as of yet. Thanks for all the help!

    https://www.madcowrocketry.com/3-aerobee-150a/
     
  2. Aug 7, 2018 #2

    rharshberger

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    That kit would be fine for a L1 choice. Where are you located?
     
  3. Aug 7, 2018 #3

    JoeV10

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    Ft Myers area, where the club launches is just over an hour away. I’m pretty sure we have more land than where they launch, so my tests can be done here. I travel to Tampa a few weekends a month.
    The most confusing thing to me that I will definitely need help with would be the recovery.
     
  4. Aug 7, 2018 #4

    Zeus-cat

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    Youi could do dual deploy or use a Jolly Logic Chute Release. Both work very well, but don't expect to get everything to work without practice and some testing.
     
  5. Aug 7, 2018 #5

    JoeV10

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    Yes I’m pretty much set on using the Jolly Logic chute release. I’m about to order all the parts and pieces I need focus complete the kit, I just don’t want any thing I forget anything. Is the fruity chute parachute worth it to get? I spoke with another guy who built this same rocket and he uses a 30” chute. I’m assuming there is a difference in the 30” chute on madcow for $19 vs the $89 chute From fruity lol I definitely want my rocket to come down safely and in tact.
     
  6. Aug 7, 2018 #6

    Jdog13

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    The normal chute should work fine on a very flight. You will have to think about motor retention because the kit doesn't include a retainer or anything. A screw on aeropack retainer is nice but expensive. If you have access to a 3d printer you could make your own screw on retainer, and if not then you can get creative with some metal clips or something.
     
  7. Aug 8, 2018 #7

    Zeus-cat

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    Excellent comment Jdog. I used homemade clips on my L1 rocket, but now use aeropack retainers on my other high power rockets. They are sooooooooooo nice and easy to use.
     
  8. Aug 9, 2018 #8

    Kallahan11

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    That's not LPR, that's HPR, and it's a good choice for Level 1.
     
  9. Aug 10, 2018 #9

    JoeV10

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    Thanks everyone for the advice! I wish our local club was more active. I’m going to check out. Tampa club, I travel there on weekends sometimes so it would work out. I don’t want to cut any corners building my first one so that I get a good understanding of everything. Does the electronics sled come built from anywhere or do I make that myself?
     
  10. Aug 10, 2018 #10

    solid_fuel

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  11. Aug 10, 2018 #11

    JoeV10

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    The retainer I was looking at for a 38mm rocket was around $30, does that sound right? It’s a reusable piece right? Would it be reasonable to build my level 1 rocket for $500-$600?
     
  12. Aug 10, 2018 #12

    DeepOvertone

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    Joe, you should be able to do it for quite a bit under that. Mine probably cost 200-250 total. Motor was maybe an extra $35. And yes the aero pack retainers are reusable as in you don’t have to buy a new one every time you fly that same rocket. You can’t however move them from one rocket to another. I use them pretty much exclusively except for some lower power birds. For those I use the Estes 24 and 29mm retainers.
     
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  13. Aug 10, 2018 #13

    JoeV10

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    Ok great. Do you know a good video or forum explaining the gun powder and making the charge to separate the rocket? That’s the part I can’t seem to find much on.
     
  14. Aug 10, 2018 #14

    DeepOvertone

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    Are you planning on using a dual deploy setup or motor ejection? Just an FYI, dual deploy is not necessary for L1 or even L2. Feel free to PM me for more info
     
  15. Aug 10, 2018 #15

    solid_fuel

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    The aero pack retainer base is for one rocket only. Once you buy one set you can buy just a new base for each rocket and move the cap from rocket to rocket. I would however recommend at least one back up cap In case you lose the entire rocket.
     
  16. Aug 10, 2018 #16

    DeepOvertone

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    Yes, thats true, however the "base" are much harder to find separately, and the cost difference between just the base and the full set has never outweighed the convenience of never needing to try to find which rocket the "cap" is on. For me it makes more sense to buy a set for each rocket. I also dont swap parachutes or recovery harnesses.
     
  17. Aug 10, 2018 #17

    solid_fuel

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    I find the cost difference to be fairly significant. Normally about half. Having said that I have about 4 full sets in 29mm and only one or two bases only. Finding the rocket the cap is one for me is fairly easy. I have an 80% chance of getting it right the first time. I would guess as my fleet gets larger the chances will go do n a little. You are correct the base only is also definitely not available from every vendor. When I am ordering from a vendor that has just the base only I tend to add one to my order. Of course then I then have to buy a new rocket to go with my new base.
     
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  18. Aug 10, 2018 #18

    DeepOvertone

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    Its a vicious cycle, isn't it? I love buying new rockets.
     
  19. Aug 10, 2018 #19

    JoeV10

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    I plan on using dual deployment because of our lack of space here. It’s the rainy season here in Florida so there is a lot of flooded areas that’s I don’t want my rocket to drift into. The jolly logic chute release is only for releasing the chute at the designated altitude, not actually separating the cone from the base correct?
     
  20. Aug 10, 2018 #20

    Zeus-cat

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    Correct on the Chute Release; it and the chute need to be ejected by the motor or another ejection charge. I saw a guy use one yesterday and the chute deployed at apogee anyway. He still landed his rocket fairly close. He has his L3 so he is not a rocket rookie. Everyone makes mistakes and you really need to practice with your Chute Release to make sure it will do what you want. Make sure it releases the chute and make sure you pack the chute so it doesn't release at apogee. I'm not badmouthing the Chute Release (I have one and am a big fan of Jolly Logic stuff), but like many things rocketry related, you need to know how it works and use it correctly.

    I would say the chute release is easier than dual deploy. If nothing else, it doesn't require you to build ejection charges. For charges you need black powder which can be difficult to get.
     
  21. Aug 10, 2018 #21

    DeepOvertone

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    Ok, so you’re planning on using the JLCR to do a “fake” dual deploy. I say fake because a true dual deploy utilizes dedicated altimeter/dual deploy computers that deploy a drogue chute at apogee and a main chute at a pre selected lower altitude. This splits the rocket into three pieces generally. What you are planning accomplishes the same goal with much less fuss. To answer your question, the motor you purchase will come with an ejection charge that will separate the rocket sections. You will need to sim out your rocket as you build it to get an idea of which motor will get you to your desired altitude and what sort of delay your motor will need to have before the ejection charge deploys. Every rocket will need a specific delay time which is determined by many factors. The easiest way to get a good idea of the delay is to just got ahead and build the rocket in a simulator.
     
  22. Aug 10, 2018 #22

    Steve Shannon

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    I agree that it can be done much less expensively. A cardboard rocket from Binder Design, Mad Cow, LOC, Aerotech, or even Estes with a 29 mm motor mount can be had pretty inexpensively. The new Aerotech rockets come with their version of . A four inch diameter lightweight cardboard rocket with a 38 mm motor mount can be launched on an H or I for a nice single deployment L1 and then on a J for a very manageable L2 once you’ve gotten some experience.
    It’s less fun if it becomes too costly.
     
  23. Aug 10, 2018 #23

    jlabrasca

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    Where are you getting this figure?

    $75 for the Aerobee kit

    $30 - $40 for a retainer like THIS or THIS

    $36 for a 36" PARACHUTE (and two spares)

    add $130 for the JLCR and another $20 for tubular nylon shock cord, quick links, swivels, etc ... less than $300 for sure.

    FWIW -- when prepping for the L1 attempt I built two H-capable rockets for about $175, (one from heavy walled BT80, one from 3 inch LOC tubing) -- and I had materials (aircraft plywood, 29mm motor tube, coupler stock, shock-cord stock, etc.) left over. I did not fly a JLCR for the L1 -- just motor deployment and fortunate winds. As others have said, the JLCR makes dual deployment an unnecessary complication for a cert flight.

    reason for edit: itchy trigger finger
     
  24. Aug 11, 2018 #24

    JoeV10

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    I should have clarified better on that, I apologize. The $500-$600 i had figured before had included a New GoPro to put inside. But even with that I still assumed the whole thing would cost more than $300. That is exciting but makes me want to build 2 rockets now lol. Maybe I should lean away from the JLCR for the cert flight. I would probably be better off with a very basic rocket before I try adding gizmos and gadgets that I know nothing about. “Back to YouTube university!”
     
  25. Aug 11, 2018 #25

    DeepOvertone

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    I used the JLCR on my L1. Was very glad I did. However, I used mid power motors in that rocket for 2-3 launches before I sent it up on a HPR motor. Got a little practice first, you know? And the JLCR is easy to use if you pack your chute well. Also, MAKE SURE you turn it on before you send it up. It’s best to make a check list to make sure everything is in order.
     
  26. Aug 11, 2018 #26

    jlabrasca

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    If you can afford it, and if you are worried about where your rocket will land, get the JLCR.

    As for building two rockets -- yeah, that's not a bad idea. If your first L1 attempt results in a un-fliable rocket you are allowed to rack another rocket and try again at the same launch.
     
  27. Aug 12, 2018 #27

    BABAR

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    Only issue with that may be buying the motors. I am not L1, but if I understand right until you HAVE your L1 you personally can only buy one HPR for your certification flight. Of course, easy enough to get around if the other club members who ARE HPR certified can help you out with a spare motor of the correct denomination.
     
  28. Aug 12, 2018 #28

    Steve Shannon

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    If there’s no onsite vendor, order two (or more) motors and have them delivered to your Prefect or a friend who’s certified.
     
  29. Aug 13, 2018 #29

    DankMemes

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    I suppose if you really wanted to go inexpensive on the L1 cert, one could try a 29mm small H motor in an E2X Pro Series 2 Kit. I've flown mine (Majestic) on some large G reloads (Left out the engine block and added some nose weight, and fin fillets, and upgraded to the conformal rail guides from apogee), and it lived to fly another day, I would definitely recommend a chute release because you'll be well above 3000 feet in that case.

    As long as you can get it to pass RSO inspection, its possible, although I'm not sure its ever been tried... As a reference point you can pick up the kit at Hobby Lobby with the 40% off for less than $30, add in some build supplies and a chute release, and in the neighborhood of $200. Just recommend a single use motor if available as with these kinds of altitudes the likelyhood of losing the rocket increases dramatically, Also check with your local club to see what their waivered altitude limit is.

    Majestic_L1_Configurations.png
     
  30. Aug 14, 2018 at 2:18 AM #30

    dhbarr

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    I built my Mammoth on the field w/ 5min Epoxy and flew an H97 for L1 to demonstrate exactly this. Doesn't have to be particularly expensive or complicated.
     

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