Is the 14,500 foot standing waiver at Lucerne Dry Lake ALWAYS active?

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JMX

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Was wondering if the 14,500 foot waiver is always active at Lucerne Dry Lake?

Meaning if I go out there and launch by myself today will I be covered to 14,500?

Yes, I know I need a Pyro operator supervising if I launch HPR...


But I'm not launching HPR but simply a long burn G motor in a minimum diameter rocket that will most likely coast up to around 5,000 feet.

Am I cool to do this today?
 

shreadvector

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Do you have a copy of the waiver?

What does it say?

Is it issued to a specific person or entity (like ROC)?
 

Steve Shannon

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Was wondering if the 14,500 foot waiver is always active at Lucerne Dry Lake?

Meaning if I go out there and launch by myself today will I be covered to 14,500?

Yes, I know I need a Pyro operator supervising if I launch HPR...


But I'm not launching HPR but simply a long burn G motor in a minimum diameter rocket that will most likely coast up to around 5,000 feet.

Am I cool to do this today?
I’ve never heard of COA that’s always active. In my experience, the person the COA is issued to must request activation and must be there to ensure the terms of the COA are followed and to communicate to FAA if necessary.
However, if you’re flying Class 1, and have landowner permission, you don’t need a COA anyway.
 

JMX

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Thanks for the responses. I know you BOTH are in the top tier of most knowledgeable of members on site.

Sadly, it's just hearsay from the group. In another thread it was mentioned that Lucerne Dry Lake is BLM land and that the BLM office in Barstow, CA has given permission for people to launch at any time because there is literally zero vegetation on site because it's a dry lake.

And then somebody else said they have a standing waiver that doesn't expire.

My CTI G65 powered minimum diameter can go a mile high when conditions are right.

I just don't want to get into any trouble and ruin anything for anyone else.
 

mikec

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There are no altitude restrictions on Class 1 rockets so the waiver is irrelevant (as Steve said). I have no idea if flying at Lucerne is allowed all the time as far as the BLM is concerned but I have heard this before.
 

JMX

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SO if permission is allowed to launch at any time then I could conceivably fly some "H" motors by myself if it wasn't for that damn Pyro license requirement.

Does anyone know if California will do away with that? I heard people are trying to change it.


And the California Fire Marshal has been receptive to the idea.

Any word on that?
 

heada

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As long as you meet the FAA limits for Class 1, you're flying at a location that meets the legal requirements (permission, etc.), you're flying according to NAR/TRA rules assuming you're a member (safety distances, launch site size, etc.). FAA rules are for propellant weight as well as rocket weight and clear of any aircraft.
 

dhbarr

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SO if permission is allowed to launch at any time then I could conceivably fly some "H" motors by myself if it wasn't for that damn Pyro license requirement.

Does anyone know if California will do away with that? I heard people are trying to change it.


And the California Fire Marshal has been receptive to the idea.

Any word on that?
Waiting for California to ease any kind of restriction or regulation, ever, is probably not a winnable game.
 

Rocketjunkie

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A G65 is a 'Model Rocket Motor' and as long as liftoff weight is under 3.3 lb. it does not require a waiver. As long as you get permissions from the required people in CA, you can fly without the FAA involvement.
 

JMX

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Thanks. Yeah. Flying motors under 4.4 ounces.

I tried calling the BLM office in Barstow, CA to confirm they ALWAYS allow flying on Lucerne Dry Lake and sadly got voicemail. They aren't open due to COVID.

Can anyone from ROC here confirm or deny people have permission to fly anytime on the lake bed? At times when ROC isn't launching?
 

DMC12

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I was out there a few weeks ago. I called BLM and they told me as long as there were less than 10 people at the launch there was no more permission needed from them. I also called the Fire Marshall and they told me I was fine. Just don’t do anything stupid.
I don’t fly anything over a G unless I’m there with Roc.
Keep watching the weather forcasts. Can’t tell you how many times I went out there and did nothing because of the evil “ W”!
 
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JMX

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Yeah, flying at Lucerne dry lake is like surfing. You gotta check the weather and get it while its good. Before it blows out.

Thanks, DMC12 for the confirmation.
 

beeblebrox

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Thanks for the responses. I know you BOTH are in the top tier of most knowledgeable of members on site.

Sadly, it's just hearsay from the group. In another thread it was mentioned that Lucerne Dry Lake is BLM land and that the BLM office in Barstow, CA has given permission for people to launch at any time because there is literally zero vegetation on site because it's a dry lake.

And then somebody else said they have a standing waiver that doesn't expire.

My CTI G65 powered minimum diameter can go a mile high when conditions are right.

I just don't want to get into any trouble and ruin anything for anyone else.
That is a "Model Rocket" by definition, less than 80nt average thrust, and if minimum dia. certainly it is under 1500g liftoff weight. You can fly that all day... As long as the motor has less than 4 oz propellant and is TRA or NAR certified
 

rokit

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And then somebody else said they have a standing waiver that doesn't expire.
As previously mentioned, just because a waiver/COA exists doesn't mean it's active.

"Standing waiver" in the context of ROC is a mishmash of terms. Usually people refer to the altitude granted in a COA as "the waiver", rather than it being one of the COA's conditions. It used to be that ROC was granted up to a certain altitude, but could call in to request windows of time to higher altitudes up to a set maximum. That's changed, and now IIRC other than special events like ROCStocks or when the club hosts national launches, the maximum altitude is available whenever the waiver is active. Some people refer to this as "the standing waiver".

I just don't want to get into any trouble and ruin anything for anyone else.
IIRC, before COA's can be activated a NOTAM needs to be filed, usually several days in advance. I couldn't tell you where/how to check, but you should be able to find out if ROC (or someone else -- it's rare, but other people do get COA's granted for Lucerne Dry Lake) is planning on flying before you head out.

Hope I got that right, and that it helps clear things up a little.

Mike
 

rokit

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P.S. The whole lakebed isn't managed by the BLM. There are some sections that are privately owned. Saw a map once, but can't remember where, so I couldn't tell you where the "boundaries" are. Stick to the general area where the club launches from and you should be good 👍
 

cerving

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You're probably not going to get to 14,500' with a Class 1... the NAR "G" record is about 8000'.
 
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