3D Printing Improving the nozzle for a midpowered rocket

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

This topic in which was put into spin when i had stabilization issues with my 29mm egine during flights in low mph winds , I was disappointing in how unstable the launch was , overall we had paid good money for an eh launch , so we started to discuss the idea of making a better nozzle .... watch this build of a new and improved nozzle in which may help or not help the overall stability of my rocket!!!

 

[Nytrunner]

Describe the rocket and motor combination that gave you the issue.

Altering a motor nozzle or substituting a nozzle in a reload kit isnt recommended, accepted practice under NFPA (research flying under Tripoli aside), and can be dangerous without a great deal of technical knowledge.

 

[Steve Shannon]

This topic in which was put into spin when i had stabilization issues with my 29mm egine during flights in low mph winds , I was disappointing in how unstable the launch was , overall we had paid good money for an eh launch , so we started to discuss the idea of making a better nozzle .... watch this build of a new and improved nozzle in which may help or not help the overall stability of my rocket!!!

If you’re flying a certified motor and you’re having stability issues, the problem isn’t the nozzle, or the money you paid to launch.

 

[Rex R]

sounds to me more like a case of bad motor choice and or binding on the launch guides. modifying nozzles is a good way to dispose of favorite rockets.
Rex

 

[Zeus-cat]

What material are you going to use in your 3-D printer? Most printers use heat to melt a low temp plastic to form the desired shape. You should realize pretty quickly why this may not work for a rocket motor nozzle. Think about it for a few seconds.

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

What material are you going to use in your 3-D printer? Most printers use heat to melt a low temp plastic to form the desired shape. You should realize pretty quickly why this may not work for a rocket motor nozzle. Think about it for a few seconds.

This hasn't been found out yet but we are using one of several printing sources from Rice University.....

We are still in the brainstorming part of the project but hang with us

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

Also the idea of this whole experiment is to see if you could enhance the nozzle , but in my regards i wouldn't think that would be the case for the motor , we might actually steer away from the initial replacement nozzle idea and more to making a VANE in all aspects , and if that doesn't turn out we will do 3D printed Fins with different angle for different massed rockets ...

 

[neil_w]

I am perplexed by this whole thing. What were the details of the flight that led you to believe that changing the nozzle would fix anything in the first place? What made you think that those printers can print in any material even *close* to being suitable for a nozzle? What kind of vane are you talking about?

You haven't given enough info for anyone here to have any sort of clue what you're on about.

 

[Nytrunner]

Photopolymers and ABS for a rocket nozzle? .....


There are some brilliant folks on this forum that would love to "bear with you", but so far (without defining your issue properly) it sounds like you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

I am perplexed by this whole thing. What were the details of the flight that led you to believe that changing the nozzle would fix anything in the first place? What made you think that those printers can print in any material even *close* to being suitable for a nozzle? What kind of vane are you talking about?

You haven't given enough info for anyone here to have any sort of clue what you're on about.

Like i said above this experiment is in its early stages of development but we do have access to 3D metal printers at our local colleges

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

I will update you people when we start pro typing nozzles

 

[neil_w]

Like i said above this experiment is in its early stages of development but we do have access to 3D metal printers at our local colleges

Still no clear explanation of what is going on or why you're doing what you're doing. Is it your intent to be mysterious about this? If so I'm not sure why you started this thread.

 

[Zeus-cat]

I would suggest that you get rid of the rocket and do your tests on a test stand with instrumentation. The first thing that comes to mind is that you need a load cell to measure thrust. I would also find someone who can mix up a batch of AP and have them cast a bunch of grains that you can fire. If you're going to do an experiment the best thing to do is remove as many variables as you can. So sticking your motors and nozzles in a rocket introduces a lot of variables that you can't control. Static firing on a test stand is a much better option for capturing data based on what you have told us. Plus, since you aren't launching them you don't need FAA waivers or any certifications to use your motors and nozzles.

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

Still no clear explanation of what is going on or why you're doing what you're doing. Is it your intent to be mysterious about this? If so I'm not sure why you started this thread.

First off the thread is a open to flaws due to me just starting this, also i listed that as soon as i start making the pro types

WE are in the Brian storming part of the build , so stop whinning about this and let me post my findings and results

 

[Steve Shannon]

First off the thread is a open to flaws due to me just starting this, also i listed that as soon as i start making the pro types

WE are in the Brian storming part of the build , so stop whinning about this and let me post my findings and results

Poor Brian. [emoji16]

 

[boatgeek]

I would suggest that you get rid of the rocket and do your tests on a test stand with instrumentation. The first thing that comes to mind is that you need a load cell to measure thrust. I would also find someone who can mix up a batch of AP and have them cast a bunch of grains that you can fire. If you're going to do an experiment the best thing to do is remove as many variables as you can. So sticking your motors and nozzles in a rocket introduces a lot of variables that you can't control. Static firing on a test stand is a much better option for capturing data based on what you have told us. Plus, since you aren't launching them you don't need FAA waivers or any certifications to use your motors and nozzles.

I'm going to go counterintuitive and say that he's probably best off with commercial motors with replaceable nozzles (eg Aerotech or Loki). Having fuel cast by a pro removes a variable, assuming he can replicate the nozzle sufficiently accurately.

I will still put myself on record that this is an interesting idea best run on a test stand with appropriate blast shields. If one was TRA L2 certified, it would be kind of cool to put your own nozzle on a motor and get a few percent more N-s by using a more optimum nozzle.

 

[Cnorm]

Does anyone have a Matt_The_RocketMan-to-English translator?

Can Storming Brian explain what's going on? If so, hand him your keyboard.

 

[Mailman]

Oh this is exciting... I have paid good money for an eh launch once or twice and could benefit from some solid findings and results

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

Ill re quote my statements above this thread is for Public (as in you people ) knowledge on how you can or can not improve a motor from commercial products , or agian how i can learn some very good info for you Not so understanding people on how to improve a nozzle .... getting a picture yet?

thanks for the opinions... -__-

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

 

[kuririn]

Matt,
Don't take it personally, they're just joking around and goofing off. I, for one, would like more details on how the rocket became unstable in calm winds. Because most of the time that is due to an unstable design or mismatched motor (as in underpowered). Give us a little more info, then maybe we can help you.

 

[kuririn]

For example:
1. Was it a kit? which one?
2. What motor did you use?
3. Size and length of rod or rail.
etc.

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

Ok So here is the general idea being formed ...

1) First thing we are going to try to take out a commercial Estes nozzle piece without damaging it , if this does not work we will buy commercial motors with replaceable nozzles (eg Aerotech or Loki).

2) Next thing we will do is probably come up with some ideas on what materials we are going to use from a 3D printer that is available for us a Rice University, either metal or ceramic would make do as good 3D material

3) Next we have to some research on nozzles for solid propelled rockets ... this will give us an idea on what type of nozzle may be of use to increase the flow of gas from the engine in a more stable flow (controlled flow )

REMEMBER THIS IS JUST A PICTURE IN WHICH I AM GIVING TO WHAT I AM GOING TO BE DOING TOMORROW AND IN THE FUTURE..

4) If we do not find a replaceable nozzle type , we will move on to 3D printing Vanes ( a much easier but less scientific approach to the problem )

5) If we do find a nozzle in which may meet our standards we will test this in by doing static firing ..... i am not sure how we will measure how more efficient the replaceable nozzle will be until we have several tests done with the new nozzle that does not create a CATO .... our engine we will be putting to use is either a E9-8 or E12-5

 

[kuririn]

Yikes!

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

That is as far as to planning as i have made with my fellow peers... more will come to the thread soon!

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

All in the name of Science

Yes it does sound complicated but i am here to learn from this experiment ... thus maybe improving rocket flight for all rocketiers or just failing and just learning why you shouldnt temper with rocket engine parts

 

[kuririn]

OK, I STRONGLY ask you to reconsider what you are planning. Refer to Rule #2 of the Model Rocket Safety Code:
2. Motors. I will use only certified, commercially-made model rocket motors, and will not tamper with these motors or use them for any purposes except those recommended by the manufacturer.

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

OK, I STRONGLY ask you to reconsider what you are planning. Refer to Rule #2 of the Model Rocket Safety Code:
2. Motors. I will use only certified, commercially-made model rocket motors, and will not tamper with these motors or use them for any purposes except those recommended by the manufacturer.

good catch , but idk (i will see ) i mean yeah i guess that is logical

 

[Matt_The_RocketMan]

NVM this damned thing