Improving igniters

[rocketcharlie]

Hello Forum,

I believe this subject has been talked about before but I can't come up with it. I wish to fly a rocket with a cluster of 5 D motors. Is there something that can be done to insure a fast, hot ignition of Estes igniters? Something I could add to the igniter? I realize that Quest igniters would work better, but I can't find any.

Thanks In Advance-

 

[heada]

Hello Forum,

I believe this subject has been talked about before but I can't come up with it. I wish to fly a rocket with a cluster of 5 D motors. Is there something that can be done to insure a fast, hot ignition of Estes igniters? Something I could add to the igniter? I realize that Quest igniters would work better, but I can't find any.

Thanks In Advance-

https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters
They work and work well. I've done 7 motor cluster (6x B6-0 & 1xD12-7)

Fits in nozzles from 13mm through 29mm Estes and you can tape them in place or use the soft plastic plugs Estes provides. Fairly cheap and the long leads make it much easier to wire up as well.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Use these https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters Works as well as Q2G2s. Make sure you can see the black BP in the nozzle. If it's white in there nothing will light it. You can carefully scrape off the clay or use a different motor.

 

[rocketcharlie]

Thanks for the replies. Rocketjunkie, those look good but the website doesn't mention them working in anything bigger than a C motor. I will be flying D motors.

Also I was hoping to fly this rocket a week from now. There wouldn't be time to get something sent to me in that short a time span. I was thinking there might be something I could paint on the igniter that would make it more energetic. According to heada maybe I don't need to do this. I do tend to over think things-

 

[cwbullet]

Thanks for the replies. Rocketjunkie, those look good but the website doesn't mention them working in anything bigger than a C motor. I will be flying D motors.

Also I was hoping to fly this rocket a week from now. There wouldn't be time to get something sent to me in that short a time span. I was thinking there might be something I could paint on the igniter that would make it more energetic. According to heada maybe I don't need to do this. I do tend to over think things-

They will work is used correctly. I can confirm that.

 

[BEC]

Hello Forum,

I believe this subject has been talked about before but I can't come up with it. I wish to fly a rocket with a cluster of 5 D motors. Is there something that can be done to insure a fast, hot ignition of Estes igniters? Something I could add to the igniter? I realize that Quest igniters would work better, but I can't find any.

Thanks In Advance-

This is the direct answer to your question: http://quickburst.net/qb/procast-order-page/

Granted, even the smallest kit sounds expensive (about the same as 30 of the MJG electric matches @heada and @Rocketjunkie suggested), but that kit will do literally hundreds of igniters. I got one and dipped all the yellow-tipped Estes "starters" I had (again, quite a few) and they have been flawless in use. Of course be sure not to short them in the nozzle....

That said, the low firing current of the electric matches could be an advantage in large clusters.

One more thought: the new Estes Startech starters/igniters (grey tips) should also work as is. Just don't mix them with dipped older starters or Estes Solar igniters (the black-tipped ones that predate the yellow-tipped starters) as they are slightly slower to ignite the pyrogen. Once they do, however, they do it well and work with even a bit of a gap between the propellant and the tip of the igniter.

 

[jimzcatz]

Thanks for the replies. Rocketjunkie, those look good but the website doesn't mention them working in anything bigger than a C motor. I will be flying D motors.

Also I was hoping to fly this rocket a week from now. There wouldn't be time to get something sent to me in that short a time span. I was thinking there might be something I could paint on the igniter that would make it more energetic. According to heada maybe I don't need to do this. I do tend to over think things-

BP is BP. They will light no mater what size, trust me. Oh, toss those Este's igniters in the trash, or save them as spares. They are useless for clustering. I personally use flashbulbs and BP for clusters. What Tom mentioned is a perfect ignition method.

edit: the website says We have confirmed they will fit in up to C motors, not that they will light. If it will light a C it will light an F. Good luck

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Thanks for the replies. Rocketjunkie, those look good but the website doesn't mention them working in anything bigger than a C motor. I will be flying D motors.

Also I was hoping to fly this rocket a week from now. There wouldn't be time to get something sent to me in that short a time span. I was thinking there might be something I could paint on the igniter that would make it more energetic. According to heada maybe I don't need to do this. I do tend to over think things-

They will work for larger motors. However, the regulat Firewires will also fit 24 and 29 mm motors. You still have to make sure there is no clay covering the BP.

 

[Antares JS]

Hello Forum,

I believe this subject has been talked about before but I can't come up with it. I wish to fly a rocket with a cluster of 5 D motors. Is there something that can be done to insure a fast, hot ignition of Estes igniters? Something I could add to the igniter? I realize that Quest igniters would work better, but I can't find any.

Thanks In Advance-

If you have older white-tipped igniters, I suggest this. Cheaper than MJG's..

http://quickburst.net/qb/new-and-improved-quickburst-quickdip-kit/n
If you have new stock gray-tipped igniters, they should work fine as-is.

Oh, toss those Este's igniters in the trash, or save them as spares. They are useless for clustering.

Not true at all. I've used quickdip-augmented Estes igniters to start up to 6 motors at once.

 

[Grog6]

I have a dip I use that makes the black estes work well; it's a pyro formula that I won't post here, but it uses Green label pvc pipe cement as a base, with flammables added.

 

[bjphoenix]

Hello Forum,

I believe this subject has been talked about before but I can't come up with it. I wish to fly a rocket with a cluster of 5 D motors. Is there something that can be done to insure a fast, hot ignition of Estes igniters? Something I could add to the igniter? I realize that Quest igniters would work better, but I can't find any.

Thanks In Advance-

Contact member bad_idea and ask what he uses. I've seen him have good luck with 7-motor clusters.

 

[boatgeek]

I’ve augmented Estes igniters with Duco cement and then a dip in BP. They worked really nicely. That might be available locally so you don’t have to mail order

 

[DaHabes]

I dip my Estes igniters in Testors Silver paint. If I want an even bigger boost I also do a second dip in BP. I've done tests on my workbench; the videos are in a different thread somewhere on TRF.

 

[rocketcharlie]

Thanks everyone!

 

[electricmatch]

Thanks for the replies. Rocketjunkie, those look good but the website doesn't mention them working in anything bigger than a C motor. I will be flying D motors.

Also I was hoping to fly this rocket a week from now. There wouldn't be time to get something sent to me in that short a time span. I was thinking there might be something I could paint on the igniter that would make it more energetic. According to heada maybe I don't need to do this. I do tend to over think things-

They will work in any bp motor, what the website was saying is we confirmed they FIT in those motor listed. If you have a large enough throat ( .15" or 3.8mm) you can use the firewire.

 

[B_RadB]

e-matches are great for BP clusters, but you can also easily 'enhance' Estes ignitors. I use clear fingernail polish (nitrocellulose based - check the ingredients) and then dip in 4f BP. Add twisted pair lead wires from CAT5 cable, and you're good to go. I regularly launch 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 motor clusters this way with great success.

 

[cwbullet]

https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters

http://quickburst.net/qb/new-and-improved-quickburst-quickdip-kit/n

I have tested both and both work. I have also tested IMR 4350, Duco Cement, silver Testers paint, and Nicrocelulose resin. All will work for BP motors. I tend to prefer the Electric Match BP Starters for this purpose but to each his own. I cannot make an igniter for 73 cents that is worth my time but I keep trying and that is why I buy these.

I also make high-power igniters. I use the same method as @blackjack2564. He taught me how to make my own. I donated a few to college teams that had a history of multiple failures. I have had 100% success so far.

 

[cbrarick]

thermite.
Works well, gets anything off the pad, one way or another, Something is gonna go "up" - either the rocket goes up or blows up...
Not so good for little motors.
Tends to make them say "boom!"

so, WIldman Little -uns for 29/40-120 or greater
Q2G2 for black powder,
Wildman Tiny's for the stuff in between

(Save the thermite for M's and above)

 

[Rocketjunkie]

The only time I use thermite is when a cluster must be lit NOW! Q2G2s are no longer available so unless you have a stash, they're not an option. Wildman little-uns up to big-uns for composite single motors through 98 mm. Homemade tiny ones for 13 and18 mm composites. The electricmatch BP starters are still the best way for BP clusters and they are ATF legal. They can be dipped for composite motors.

 

[bad_idea]

Thanks for the replies. Rocketjunkie, those look good but the website doesn't mention them working in anything bigger than a C motor. I will be flying D motors.

I've used them successfully on a cluster of 4 x D12-7s last month.

Contact member bad_idea and ask what he uses. I've seen him have good luck with 7-motor clusters.

I've launched the 7 motor cluster (C-6s) at least nine times now on MJG BP starters. The only failure I had was when tape alone failed to hold one of seven MJGs in place one time so only six motors went though all seven starters burned. I've switched to using 3M poster putty to hold them in place (a tip I saw here on TRF), and I've had no further problems.

 

[Lee]

Seems to me that a lot of "juice" is needed to set off 7 igniters. A while back I purchased (around $11 on Amazon) a DeWalt adapter for my 20 volt Lithium Battery which powers my drill. I haven't done clusters with it, but for single motors ignition is really fast - almost instantaneous. Leads me to believe it would work well with clusters.

 

[lakeroadster]

I use these or Estes D motor applications, they are made for fireworks. At 0.22 cents apiece, they are economical, and I have yet to have a failure using them in cluster applications. FYI: I use a Pratt Go-Box and a 12V car battery.

VILLCASE 100pcs/ lot 11.81in Connecting Wire for Fireworks Firing System, Wedding Balloon Copper Wire Connectors Firework Wires Fireworks Fuse​

 

[Lee]

what brand are those fireworks igniters?

 

[lakeroadster]

what brand are those fireworks igniters?

Sorry, I added a link to my post above.

 

[Lee]

Sorry, I should have seen it. thanks

 

[cwbullet]

what brand are those fireworks igniters?

This look like classic Chinese e-matches.

 

[4regt4]

I use these or Estes D motor applications, they are made for fireworks. At 0.22 cents apiece, they are economical, and I have yet to have a failure using them in cluster applications. FYI: I use a Pratt Go-Box and a 12V car battery.

VILLCASE 100pcs/ lot 11.81in Connecting Wire for Fireworks Firing System, Wedding Balloon Copper Wire Connectors Firework Wires Fireworks Fuse​

View attachment 528692View attachment 528693View attachment 528694View attachment 528695

Is that the actual link you used to order yours? I'm asking because the listing is very confusing. Perhaps because there is a considerable amount of "Engrish". The description is "Fireworks Firing System Connecting Wires", sounds like it is just wire. Or is there an actual igniter wire and/or pyrogen? Also, it says "425 Volts". Not sure what they are trying to say there. I'd like to get some if they are the actual igniters.

Hans.

PS: The MJG "BP Rocket Starters" are quoting ~$20ish shipping. So smaller quantities of them are kind of impractical. May do it anyway.

 

[bad_idea]

PS: The MJG "BP Rocket Starters" are quoting ~$20ish shipping. So smaller quantities of them are kind of impractical. May do it anyway.

If you're not flying black powder clusters, I wouldn't bother with them. If you are clustering, they disappear surprisingly fast and the cost disappears next to that of the motors anyway. You may also find people in your local clubs to do group buys with to save on shipping. That's something I'm doing with almost every rocket vendor I shop with now, since shipping adds up so fast.

 

[4regt4]

Not doing clusters, but need a few igniters to replace some that misfired. Just looking for a better and/or cheaper alternative to buying more Estes igniters.

Hans.

 

[cwbullet]

Not doing clusters, but need a few igniters to replace some that misfired. Just looking for a better and/or cheaper alternative to buying more Estes igniters.

Hans.

They will work for that. That is when I use the. Then again, the cheap Chinese ones will work too.