I'll Have Another - 4in to 3in Two Stage

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Somehow, the Friday-lunch-break third and final set of fillets turned out the best even though I was hustling:

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Going to give everything a few days to set up completely and then finish sand the fillets, mount rail buttons, etc., and be completely done with the fincan by the end of the weekend.
 
Anybody else that uses RocketPoxy notice that the "blush" seems to be more significant than other epoxies? I weighed out the portions of each fillet precisely and they cured in a room at 70deg, but days later when I went to finish sand them, they had significant blush on them that gummed up the sandpaper pretty badly when I first tried to sand. No biggie, just interesting.

Anyway, that pretty much covers the weekend's progress - got the fillets finish sanded and will mount the rail buttons tonight. Then I'm pretty much stagnating until either the 3" parts show up from littlemisterbig or the 4" nosecone comes in.

Fillets are super smooth:

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Are you sure you don't want to mount rail buttons in the 105° heat in Argonia? ;)
 
Are you sure you don't want to mount rail buttons in the 105° heat in Argonia? ;)

:lol:

Rail buttons went on last night in the comfort of my garage...that's one thing that I wish I could find a better solution for on these builds. My process of sinking rail buttons into thin fiberglass tube has evolved as much as I think it can, but short of doing a Wilson-esque Kevlared blind nut, I don't think it can evolve any more than it has. With the composite case projects, I simply sub out a pin on each end for a stainless screw, and get about 3/4" of tapped fiberglass to mount the rail buttons, very solid. With the stock 1/16" tubes, I've gone from drilling an undersized hole, putting a dab of JB Quick Weld on it, and self tapping in the screw to formally tapping the hole beforehand, roughing up the bottom of the button, and using a real epoxy. Still, with a 10-24 screw, I get about a thread and a half to my name. Thought about using 10-32 to get more threads, but the threads aren't as deep and it was in fact a 10-32 screw that effed me by just stripping out of the hole in the incident Chuck is referencing.

Anyhow, much ado about nothing, and I'm just continually paranoid about the process of sliding the loaded rocket on the rail with these projects, because once the hole is stripped and the button pops loose, you're hosed.

Curing with Rocketpoxy:

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Still, with a 10-24 screw, I get about a thread and a half to my name.

Make the tube thicker by taking a piece of 1/8" plywood or 1/8" G10, slightly contouring it to the tube (wrap sandpaper around the tube and manually reciprocate the standoff axially on the OD of the tube), then epoxy it down with Rocketpoxy. you can then fillet it to blend it, then drill through and apply your standard method. Will it add drag? Yes, but you're already committed to using the button, this is just slightly more drag.
 
I use these from PML for minimum diameter boosters. Lots of surface area and two screws. They don't fall off, but they will break if you get really carried away.

Jim

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Okay, the much ado about nothing continues. Of the 10 or so packages I have coming my way of stuff for this build, only one arrived last week, which was the nosecone. So, this morning it was time to do whatever we could with just the nosecone.

A problem many have identified with the otherwise great Proline filament wound nosecones is the lack of a shoulder on the tips. I learned this lesson the hard way when pushing one to Mach 3 this past summer at Airfest; the vibration of the flight knocked the tip (wrenched tight with a large set of pliers) a little bit out of alignment; that's all that the 2000+mph air needed to knock the thing clear to the side, and said 2000+mph air went right into the electronics in the nosecone, causing all charges to fire immediately and prematurely end the flight (and cause a shred) during the coast phase. So, for the 5" Balls project, I made a shoulder out of stacked washers and glued the crap out of the whole assembly. This is as of yet untested, but it should be fine; but for this, I wanted to see if I couldn't come up with a lighter and more elegant solution.

All good things begin with a trip to Home Depot in search of inspiration; the shoulder piece needed to be 1-1/16". So a 1" dowel is too small, a 1-1/8" dowel is too big. We can always sand it down, but do we really want to use wood anyway? A trip to the plumbing aisle solved the issue. A 3/4" PVC endcap is about 1-1/16" in diameter. First, we drill a 1/4" hole in the middle to allow the nosecone bolt to go through; we then use this same hole to chuck it up on the drill press lathe (one of my favorite rocket techniques for those of us not blessed with a lathe that I feel like nobody else on planet earth uses for some reason) and sand it lightly to get rid of the greasy surface of PVC parts and to prep it for bonding:

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Then, it's time to shorten the piece and prep the bottom end for bonding so that our eyebolt is long enough (we'll be subbing out the normal screw for an eyebolt):

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Then we scuff up the bottom of the nosecone tip:

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And then we glue with Rocketpoxy, using the leftover bolt and a floating nut to apply pressure:

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We'll then use the standard wedge washer technique with a 1/4" stainless eyebolt to mount it, so it's removable. But the shoulder should keep it from coming out of alignment in flight. The eyebolt will be used as a hardpoint for the main chute unless Kate ends up having to ride in there and I revert to using a line cutter.
 
Then, it's time to mount four screws/nuts (with countersink) so that the nosecone shoulder/av bay is removable. Since Kate is a must for the first flight (and the one drawback of Kate is the size of the unit), I can't do dual deploy with the drogue above the motor and the main in the nosecone; Kate needs to ride above the coupler in that nosecone space that would otherwise be used for the main parachute. So instead of shear pinning this joint, it needs to be screwed. We'll put the main above the motor and rever to using a line cutter. So first we mark 90 degrees on the coupler using our standard tape/dot method, since we'll be using four screws:

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Then, we drill 9/64" holes for the #6 screws and countersink. A note about the countersinking; I've long felt that I get less performance out of my MD builds than others that work in the space; I think it's because I tend to do things out of convenience (it'll work) and not pay attention to the minutiae as much. One such thing is I'll use panhead screws and just leave the heads there hanging out. So, this time, I decided to countersink. I bought a countersink bit at Home Depot for 9 bucks (9 bucks!) Every time I've used one of these, it's left a weird, kinda ugly star pattern instead of a nice, sexy countersink. The only time I've ever avoided this is when doing it on a drill press at super high speed, so I put it on a drill press at super high speed, and ugly star patterns abounded. I tried hand drill, drill press, high speed, low speed, cutting oil, no cutting oil, and got the same result. So I took a step back, went to the specialty (overpriced) hardware store, and got a grinding cone, which quickly solved the problem:

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But then, I ran into another issue. The 1/16" wall nosecone is really too thin to be effectively countersunk, and I didn't want the countersink to spill into the coupler. The problem is that in order to get deep enough for the countersink to be worth anything, you're already drilling out the other side of the piece and creating a massive hole. So I had to switch from countersunk screw heads to pan heads to get enough "catch," so to speak. I don't love it, but I can't think of a better solution when working with such a thin piece.

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Looks sleek:

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And then we epoxy the nuts on the back with JB Quick Weld:

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When my bulkplates and spare airframe piece show up (hopefully sometime this week), I'll continue.

-prophecy
 
Dumped another 6 hour shift into this thing on a weeknight last night - we're now squarely in the "annoying little parts of a build that become interminable" phase. I like building fincans and mixing motors but the other stuff I can do without. I have travel plans for the weekends of Mar. 1 and Mar. 8 - which means that the motor needs to be mixed in one monster 10kg batch this weekend, which means I'm running short on time here for the Mar. 14 launch.

I finally got some boxes in yesterday, one of which was a scrap 4" tube and coupler length and some old bulk plates from my dad. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

He sent me a 22" length of tube, and the days of me adding extra length "just because it can't hurt" are gone. I decided I'd cut a 16" piece for my upper airframe, which along with the 44" booster will be an even 60" of airframe (which is the piece I would have bought if I wasn't cheap and wasn't building this from scraps). Squaring ends to perfection on my janky bench sander jig takes a hot minute, and I think we squared 16 ends last night. Who knows how my dad cut it, so we squared it beforehand, cut with a hacksaw, and then squared the two cut ends:

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While we have the squaring jig set up and calibrated, let's go ahead and cut all remaining necessary pieces. First, we cut a 1" ring of coupler for the "frisbee" at the top of the motor. Square/square/cut/square/square. Then, a 3/4" belt for the nosecone coupler/av-bay to prevent shear pins from breaking prematurely. Since we've already squared the scrap airframe piece from the first cut, it's simply cut/square/square. Squaring a 3/4" long piece doesn't exactly lend itself to a good outcome, but with some time and luck we get it to within about 1/3mm of perfect all the way around and we move on.

To complete the frisbee, we need a bulkplate. It appears my dad only sent me (or only had) airframe bulk plates, so the drill press lathe is back in action for another 20 minutes to get the airframe bulkplate down to coupler size. Then it's time to drill a 1/2" hole in the middle for the motor eyebolt - I have closures with 3/8 and 1/2" holes, so we'll go with 1/2". Oops! My Wal-Mart drill bit set only goes up to 1/4", so let's drill a cluster of 1/8" holes and then use our grinding stone from the other day to sand it out to size. One thing that kills me about these builds are the $8 trips to Home Depot and add up, add up...so time to improvise.

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Then we rough everything up that is to be bonded, put a tape "shelf" on one side of where the av bay ring is to be mounted, and Rocketpoxy the ring on. The excess glue spills on to the "shelf" by design, and while it sits on this shelf, we put a shelf on the other side, flip it over, and peel off the original tape with the dripping glue.

Then, we use the rest of the Rocketpoxy to fillet the frisbee.

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The nightcap was mounting the nosecone tip with the shoulder - the shoulder throws off the whole wedge washer ratio, so we sourced a new washer, cut the eyebolt to the proper length, and then improvised a way to get the eyebolt to thread. It's a lot easier when there's no shoulder and you can see where the threads are going while reaching your hand 20" up into a nosecone where it doesn't fit, but we're all set.
 

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I like the shoulder idea for the FWFG NC, it's annoying that they didn't machine a small shoulder in the tip. I'll probably do something similar for my 4" project.


You may have better luck in the future using a zero flute countersink bit like the one below, no chatter.

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Thanks James.

More mundane progress last night. Pretty sure posting updates about said mundane progress has driven all traffic away from my thread but the benefit for me is having an online documentary of my build for later reference, so so be it.

Vent hole and shear pin holes, drilled in an OCD pattern of perfect medians:

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Yes, we're even countersinking the shear pins (sorry for the blurry photo):

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Machined some bulk plates on the drill press and glued my caps together:

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Mixing the motor this weekend and then we're on the home stretch with this thing.
 
I've found with my build threads a lot of times, that even though there may not be a lot of replies, people are still watching.
 
I like the shoulder idea for the FWFG NC, it's annoying that they didn't machine a small shoulder in the tip. I'll probably do something similar for my 4" project.


You may have better luck in the future using a zero flute countersink bit like the one below, no chatter.

3355091.jpg

Uh oh, a tool I don't have. I need one!
 
You know I'm watching and waiting for the parcels I've sent to make their appearances :)
 
Hey Steve - just catching up with this thread. All looks good! Interesting idea on the nose cone tip shoulder.

All good things begin with a trip to Home Depot in search of inspiration...
Agree with you there. :)
Did you say you're using standard hex nuts glued inside the coupler for your screws to attach to? I'm using that exact same method in my 54mm av-bay.

I've found with my build threads a lot of times, that even though there may not be a lot of replies, people are still watching.
Yep, my experiences are often the same.

Looks like I may get to fly that same weekend - March 14 will be here before we know it...
 
Spent two out of the last three nights mixing and putting together the motor for this thing. We ended up material limited on the mix, so we'll fly with 35" of propellant, not 42". This should back down the altitude from the 45k range to the 35k range, which is disappointing, but I'm too cheap and too lazy to buy more materials and do a supplementary mix.

Stay tuned.
 
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