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Bat-mite

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Think about this, folks. If you were a legislator and you outlawed (i.e., "controlled") certain substances, what would your motivation be? Take the ATF: are they looking for Joe Blow launching rockets, or are they looking for Timothy McVeigh plotting to blow up a building? Are they going after the guy who blows up a groundhog burrow in his back 40, or are they going after a guy in a militia trying to make grenade launchers?

Laws are there for a reason, and yes, you could get arrested for possession of BP without a LEUP. But to assume that the ATF has nothing better to do than go around neighborhoods looking for rocketry hobbyists is silly. It's when a rocketry hobbyist gets stupid and tries to make homemade fireworks, blows his fingers off and goes to the ER that they get involved.
 

Banzai88

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It's when a rocketry hobbyist gets stupid and tries to make homemade fireworks, blows his fingers off and goes to the ER that they get involved.
Thus everyone's angst when a new account shows up and claims to want to build ONE rocket, launch L1 and L2 the same day, and go L3CC/TAP shopping so that they can make SRB sized mix master go faster rocket motors.

But the larger point in general is that the rank and file, and ESPECIALY the administration of the place, has zero idea what's going on. If a field office calls a manufacturer/vendor to know what THEY'RE supposed to be doing....the system is well past broken.
 

UhClem

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Has any one ever seen the BATFE's definition of an "igniter". If so would you please send me a link so I can read it? I've never been able to find it.
They will not provide that. They will give you a ruling on a specific item but that is it. (I have been searching for a long time As near as I can tell the dividing line is if materials on the ATF's explosives list are used. Which is how things that look like igniters, act like igniters, and smell like igniters, aren't regulated by the ATF. (MJG Firewire)
 

prfesser

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Has any one ever seen the BATFE's definition of an "igniter". If so would you please send me a link so I can read it? I've never been able to find it.
I do not recall a written definition of an igniter nor of an electric match; not that there isn't one, I just don't recall one. The only "definition" I have seen (if memory serves) is a picture of an Estes motor starter, labeled as "electric match" and a picture of an item labeled as "igniter". The latter image is what everyone on this forum probably calls an ematch.

Best -- Terry
 

Antares JS

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I do not recall a written definition of an igniter nor of an electric match; not that there isn't one, I just don't recall one. The only "definition" I have seen (if memory serves) is a picture of an Estes motor starter, labeled as "electric match" and a picture of an item labeled as "igniter". The latter image is what everyone on this forum probably calls an ematch.

Best -- Terry
I cringed reading this.
 

quickburst

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I'm told by the ATF that if we want "igniters" to be exempt it would have to come from Congress. True? Considering the source I think not. I was also told the law against igniters is in CFR 49. I've read quite a bit of it and I don't see anything that is clear. I have igniters in my stove and cooktop, bar b que, water heater, gas space heaters and several other appliances. We also drive our cars around and each airbag contains an E-match or some other form of igniter.

I asked Jeff at MJG how he got an exemption for the FireWire Igniters. I never got a reply, Jeff is a good guy so I don't press it.

At one time I called the ATF and asked for the same exemption Walmart and Hobby Lobby have. They sell igniters, and to the best of my knowledge, the checkers do not have a permit and I was not asked to supply a copy of mine, also neither store has proper storage, believe it or not I found them on the shelf out in the wide open. During one of my inspections I gave the ATF Inspector a package of Igniters from Walmart along with my receipt. The package was labeled "Igniter". I asked her to take it to her supervisor and show him that the law is being broken. They need to surround the place and put them all in jail ; )

Most igniters are classified as UN0454, 1.4S, packing group 2 by DOT. The Postmaster grants permission to send these through the US Mail, this is called a "letter of authority". So the truth is, USPS employees are walking around with a controlled explosive.

I'll get off my soapbox, but I'm tired of having to pass inspections every three years by someone that called me last week and asked me if igniters are regulated.
 

quickburst

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They will not provide that. They will give you a ruling on a specific item but that is it. (I have been searching for a long time As near as I can tell the dividing line is if materials on the ATF's explosives list are used. Which is how things that look like igniters, act like igniters, and smell like igniters, aren't regulated by the ATF. (MJG Firewire)
"Which is how things that look like igniters, act like igniters, and smell like igniters, aren't regulated by the ATF. (MJG Firewire)"

I'm eager to hear more. What makes you say "Igniters" aren't regulated by the ATF? If this is true, and I hope it is, I've been lied to by BATFE about 19 years now.
 

UhClem

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What makes you say "Igniters" aren't regulated by the ATF?
I never said that. Igniters (no definition provided) are listed as an example of regulated explosives at 18 USC Chapter 40. aka the law. So igniters are regulated.

MJG is selling an igniter that is thermite based (or so they say) and thermite is not on the list of explosives. So even though they function just like a Daveyfire N28B, the ATF gives them a pass because they don't include "explosives".
 

quickburst

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I never said that. Igniters (no definition provided) are listed as an example of regulated explosives at 18 USC Chapter 40. aka the law. So igniters are regulated.

MJG is selling an igniter that is thermite based (or so they say) and thermite is not on the list of explosives. So even though they function just like a Daveyfire N28B, the ATF gives them a pass because they don't include "explosives".
Thanks for the clarity. I appreciate that.
 

electricmatch

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This is what we got directly from our ATF agent. As far as the initiator we make, it is not regulated. it took us about 2 years to do this, and it's all a trade secret on how.
 

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