Igniter hook-up for a Deuce's Wild

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by neil_w, Jun 4, 2019.

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  1. Jun 4, 2019 #1

    neil_w

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    I hope to be launching my Deuce's Wild for the first time this weekend. I have a small stash of the old "good" black-tipped Estes igniters which I have been saving for cluster use, but the Deuce motor mounts will put them too far apart to twist the leads together. Short of using some more expensive igniters with longer leads, how do people normally hook these things up?

    I'm not sure if the clubs have clip whips available or what. It didn't occur to me to purchase one of my own when I got the kit, probably too late to do so now, at least for this weekend.
     
  2. Jun 4, 2019 #2

    BABAR

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    Clip whips are easy enough to make.

    Get some light double stranded insulated wire. (If you have an old Estes ignition system you can scavenge from that.).

    Figure out max number of engines you want to build for (if you are never going to cluster more than two, than two is fine.)

    For your base wire (the one you will attach your current two ignition wire to) at one end spread apart strip the two wires and attach a contact point (I ended up just using a metal washer to each, worked fine.).

    At the other end of the base wire, spread and strip the ends. Mark one end “black” or some other color.

    Attach two, three, or four wires to the black wire, and mark the tips of these black. Strip the ends of these wires and ideally attach alligator clips.

    Other than NOT marking them black, to the same for the other base wire.

    Insulate the connections with electrical tape or shrink tubing.

    “Black” is this case does not represent the negative pole or anything, just helps you keep track of the two separate base wires.

    At launch, each igniter gets one black wire and one not-black wire.

    Attach your standard leads to the washers or other contact points of the base wire. Spread them apart enough obviously so they don’t tough/short circuit.

    The essential factor for use is that you need a well charged 12 volt ignition system
     
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  3. Jun 4, 2019 #3

    afadeev

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    Neil,

    I will bring my cluster ignition whip and somewhat clumsily painted Deuce's Wild to this weekend's launch.
    If I find my backup cluster whip, we could race them.

    a
     
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  4. Jun 4, 2019 #4

    mikec

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    I've always been able to orient igniters in my DW such that I can twist the leads together, but maybe you got a shorter batch?

    Be warned that the DW will very likely power-prang if only one motor ignites, especially if there is any wind.
     
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  5. Jun 4, 2019 #5

    jqavins

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    OK, I admit I'm being really anal here.

    In low voltage DC wiring, black is typically negative and red positive. In 110 V wiring, white is neutral and black is the primary hot, and green is ground. I would therefore avoid using black, white, green, or red, just to dispell any chance of confusion. Alright, just because I'm anal about it.

    Any other color is fine. Blue, brown, purple, yellow, whatever's handy.

    And here's a more practical tip: I like to do the marking by applying something more permanent than ink. Shrink tubing and zip ties both do nicely.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
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  6. Jun 4, 2019 #6

    kuririn

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    Neil,
    +1 to mikec, you can orient the igniter leads facing in towards one another and twist the leads together. But a clip whip would be easier: no twisting together, just clip. Even simpler would be two wire busses. A straightened paper clip would do.Can handle two to seven clustered motors. The price is right, but you would still have to twist the leads onto the bus.
    0604190747.jpg
     
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  7. Jun 4, 2019 #7

    neil_w

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    I eyeballed it and thought they wouldn't reach, but maybe I was distracted and not paying close enough attention. I'll try it. If I have problems for whatever reason I'll fall back on afadeev's clip whip. I am *very* excited to get this thing in the air. Don't think I've ever seen one fly before (lots of pictures, but never in person.)

    The club has a good 12V ignition system, no worries about adequate current.
     
  8. Jun 5, 2019 #8

    mjennings

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    I have a clip whip that I made pretty easy to do, but in a pinch I've done exactly what kuririn shows above
     
  9. Jun 10, 2019 #9

    BABAR

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    I have had mixed results with black powder cluster ignition with Previous Estes solar black tip igniters and current white tip starters. Yesterday I tried current white tip Estes starters on a two engine cluster (D12-0 and A8-3.). It was a two stage, only the A lit. It was entertaining, the stack lifted just enough to lift it off the rail and dropped back to the pad. Today same stack had a great flight using Quest First Fire MICROS

    https://www.apogeerockets.com/index...ucts_id=2400&zenid=61lhbssio9cfeotil28ljlgfp6

    Although a bit tricky to put into Estes motor (they are designed for the QJet composite motors) I used a ball of wadding to hold them in place (tip from Der Micromeister, God rest his soul!) and today same stack launched well. I tried another cluster two stage today using the new Estes white tips and both cluster motors lit.
     
  10. Jun 10, 2019 #10

    BABAR

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  11. Jun 10, 2019 #11

    neil_w

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    For what it’s worth: I flew my Deuce three times yesterday, all 6 motors lit. I used the old Estes igniters, twisted together as shown in Kuririn’s post above.

    Problem is I’m running out of those igniters....

    Obligatory picture:
    June 8 launch-2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  12. Jun 10, 2019 #12

    kuririn

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    I've used Quick Dip to enhance the clear starters. It's a pyrogen dip, you purchase the dry components and mix them with acetone. Keep in an airtight container, if it becomes thick you can reconstitute it by adding more acetone. But if it dries out completely and is rock hard, no dice.
    I've also read in Chris' blog that you can coat them with an acetone based glue (Beacon FabriTac?) then dip it in gunpowder just before launch.
    PS Found it: the clear coating is water soluble, if you remove it by soaking in water THEN do the above it will result in faster ignition.http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2018/08/estes-starter-igniter-upgrade-update.html
    Thanks to Chris.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  13. Jun 10, 2019 #13

    jqavins

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    I've enhanced the old Estes Solars as well, because I've seen a good handful of them (well, a bad handful) smoke out at club launches and never once seen a Q2G2 do that. I assume the same would work with the new starters, even with one's own pyrogen (as I did).
     
  14. Jun 11, 2019 #14

    Rocketjunkie

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    Look into the nozzles of your motors and make sure you can see the black BP. Put just a few grains of BP in the nozzle and install the Estes starters normally. Twist the wires together like in post #6. This will work even with the new starters.
     

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