Igniter Dipping-Canada

[Dipstick]

Hey fellow Canucks, anyone know of a good source or recipe for igniter dip?

I fly a lot of old and aging Aerotech reloads with a fair bit of success. I know scuffing up grains, etc and can usually get things to light eventually, but some motors just don't want to roll. An igniter or two burns in them and I have to dissasemble to scuff grains again. The old single use motors are even harder...

I can make decent igniters for HP loads, but want a recipe for the tiny reloads where I can make a thin gauge igniter with bridge wire and a good pyro.

The vendors that sell these seem to be US only and obviously won't ship up here...


Ideas?

 

[markg]

I don't know, but I'm interested in the answer as well. Last time I went out to launch I had back to back E18 reloads that wouldn't light. I only tried one igniter each as I didn't have any spares with me. Actually, that was back in July and I still haven't done anything with those reloads. I was planning on pulling them apart, scuffing up the grains and adding a sliver of pyrodex to the top of the grain to help get it started.

cheers - mark

 

[prfesser]

Nakka has several initiator mixtures described on his site. The HotFlash mixture in the PDF sounds as though it would do. He also gives instructions (second link below) on sources of the needed materials.

https://nakka-rocketry.net/articles/Nitrate_based_igniters.pdfhttps://nakka-rocketry.net/igniter.html
Best -- Terry

 

[Dipstick]

Nakka has several initiator mixtures described on his site. The HotFlash mixture in the PDF sounds as though it would do. He also gives instructions (second link below) on sources of the needed materials.

https://nakka-rocketry.net/articles/Nitrate_based_igniters.pdfhttps://nakka-rocketry.net/igniter.html
Best -- Terry

Thanks Terry! You are probably the right guy to ask...what do I need to be aware of with this warning line "Compositions that include nitrates and aluminum have, under certain conditions, potential for undesirable side reactions that evolve heat and ammonia gas. "

I get the potential, what certain conditions do I need to be aware of?

 

[prfesser]

Thanks Terry! You are probably the right guy to ask...what do I need to be aware of with this warning line "Compositions that include nitrates and aluminum have, under certain conditions, potential for undesirable side reactions that evolve heat and ammonia gas. "

I get the potential, what certain conditions do I need to be aware of?

Wetted with water . The boric acid counters that reaction, though. If you can't find boric acid in the drugstore, check the labels on roach powders; some are pure boric acid. And in any event, mix up only what you need for a single dipping session. If memory serves I've dipped 100 starters with a 10-gram batch of a dipping mixture, and had some left over to burn. A small, narrow polyethylene or polypropylene container (small prescription bottle or similar) is good for dipping.

Best -- Terry

 

[Westcoast_Rocket]

Hey fellow Canucks, anyone know of a good source or recipe for igniter dip?

I fly a lot of old and aging Aerotech reloads with a fair bit of success. I know scuffing up grains, etc and can usually get things to light eventually, but some motors just don't want to roll. An igniter or two burns in them and I have to dissasemble to scuff grains again. The old single use motors are even harder...

I can make decent igniters for HP loads, but want a recipe for the tiny reloads where I can make a thin gauge igniter with bridge wire and a good pyro.

The vendors that sell these seem to be US only and obviously won't ship up here...


Ideas?

I use Green Dot smokeless powder with Acetone to make a slurry, and coat below the ignitor tip. It works every time. Wear gloves!

 

[Dipstick]

Thanks! Do you have a source for that? I noticed quick burst is selling into Canada now too, so was going to try that.

 

[Westcoast_Rocket]

Any smokeless rifle or shotgun powder will work. You aren't using much of it. The process is hazardous because of the Nitroglycerine added, so you must use gloves with it or face the dreaded Nitrate headache. I make very small batches and coat my ignitors just below the ignitor head. The results are spectacular! The material dries like hard plastic and is supremely flammable.

 

[midpower_madness]

No commercial sale of ignitor dip is yet legal for use in Canada BTW. No on the ERD authorized list.

 

[Jerry F.]

one of the other forums here mentioned simply dipping the ignitors in Testor's Silver Metallic Paint...it's supposed to work quite well...might be worth a comparison test or two....

 

[Sandy H.]

Thanks! Do you have a source for that? I noticed quick burst is selling into Canada now too, so was going to try that.

I have had great luck with Quickburst, so if it is legally available to get, I think that would be a great route to go, as the learning curve is close to zero. I know there is a new formulation available now, but I have mostly used the 'original' stuff and can't say for sure one way or the other on the new formula. The old one worked so good for me, that I have some new and will try it, but am not rushing due to being very satisfied with the original.

Sandy.

 

[rharshberger]

I have had great luck with Quickburst, so if it is legally available to get, I think that would be a great route to go, as the learning curve is close to zero. I know there is a new formulation available now, but I have mostly used the 'original' stuff and can't say for sure one way or the other on the new formula. The old one worked so good for me, that I have some new and will try it, but am not rushing due to being very satisfied with the original.

Sandy.

Are you talking about Quikburst's ProCast formula? If so thats John DeMar's BKNO3-V formula and properly sized it would probably light dirt. There is even a excel spreadsheet on how to size the igniter based on the volume of the motor core.

 

[Sandy H.]

Are you talking about Quikburst's ProCast formula? If so thats John DeMar's BKNO3-V formula and properly sized it would probably light dirt. There is even a excel spreadsheet on how to size the igniter based on the volume of the motor core.

I signed up for the beta test of a 'new' quickdip formula mid-last year. He sent me some and I didn't get to test them due to COVID launch cancellations. I did test fires, but not actual launches. I don't know if the product has actually been released or not, but the standard Quickdip worked great for me over the years, so I'd grab that if the new version wasn't available yet. I bought the conductive dip too, but never made any, as I was launching bigger rockets back in the day. It might be helpful for smaller motors.

Sandy.

 

[rharshberger]

I signed up for the beta test of a 'new' quickdip formula mid-last year. He sent me some and I didn't get to test them due to COVID launch cancellations. I did test fires, but not actual launches. I don't know if the product has actually been released or not, but the standard Quickdip worked great for me over the years, so I'd grab that if the new version wasn't available yet. I bought the conductive dip too, but never made any, as I was launching bigger rockets back in the day. It might be helpful for smaller motors.

Sandy.

Ahh! I have friends that like the original formula as well, I use the BKNO3V on everything from 18mm RMS to 75mm

 

[les]

I signed up for the beta test of a 'new' quickdip formula mid-last year.

I also did the beta test. I dipped the Estes starters and then successfully used them for a 7 engine BP cluster - all motors lit.

 

[olivermpb]

Are you talking about Quikburst's ProCast formula? If so thats John DeMar's BKNO3-V formula and properly sized it would probably light dirt. There is even a excel spreadsheet on how to size the igniter based on the volume of the motor core.

Do you happen to have a copy of the spreadsheet you could share?

 

[TheTank]

Any smokeless rifle or shotgun powder will work. You aren't using much of it. The process is hazardous because of the Nitroglycerine added, so you must use gloves with it or face the dreaded Nitrate headache. I make very small batches and coat my ignitors just below the ignitor head. The results are spectacular! The material dries like hard plastic and is supremely flammable.

I have tons of smokeless powder for reloading but have never tried this (but I have used pyrodex pellets to augment igniters for 75 and 98mm motors). Just to clarify, its the acetone being added and turning it into a slurry that makes it hazardous to the touch only or should I use a respirator as well? Also, once it dries, it is then harmless to touch or should I still take precautions?

 

[jsdemar]

Do you happen to have a copy of the spreadsheet you could share?

 

[lr64]

You might be interested in this trick that Richard Nakka came up with for getting sorbitol to light:
https://www.nakka-rocketry.net/ignexp.html

He uses a mortar and pestle to grind an 80/20 mixture of KNO3 and charcoal, mixes it up with some isopropyl, and paints it on the grain:
https://www.nakka-rocketry.net/ignexp.html
He lets it dry for a day.

He has other interesting info about ignition.
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You might try using carbon fiber or a thin piece of carbon composite as a bridge wire. Only a very short length is necessary. Quarter inch? This may depend in part on the particular flavor of carbon fiber. I was a witness to a fairly large, carbon composite item falling across high voltage lines. From a few hundred yards away, the loud 60 cycle hum and the little mushroom cloud were quite impressive. I was told the grass underneath, which I think was short, caught on fire. Some of the fiber looked undisturbed, except that all the epoxy had vaporized.

I've been lighting Jetex motors this way. Mine only has a 1 mm "nozzle", so I use 30 gauge magnet wire. Fortunately, I can stick it through the 40? mesh screen and nozzle before assembling the motor. Powered by a 3 cell lipo usually used for RC gliders, i.e. something like 11 or 12 volts, with little internal resistance.

 

[lr64]

BTW, wrap the wire around the carbon. If you try to wrap the carbon around the wire, that's a pretty small radius and it will probably break. At high stress levels, of course, but it still breaks. Tow is fine, but a splinter of pre-cured carbon composite is a little easier to work with.