If this kept me awake, you all have to share my pain....

[BMG22]

I got to thinking about the Estes Mean Machine again. I first saw it in the 1992 catalog but never did get one. I'll fix that eventually, but first....

I was thinking of making a very tall BT-80 sized rocket. Then the idea of an upscaled Mean Machine hit. By my calculations, it would be around 9 and a half feet tall. So at that size you may have to call it "The Bus" or even "Randy Johnson Fastball."

Watch out, birds!

 

[bad_idea]

It's a great idea, but it will probably be easier if you add 3' so you don't have to scratch build a matching nosecone: the Mean Machine uses the Red Max nose cone, so if you use the 3" Der Big Red Max nosecone and 3" OD tubes (you can buy it in 34" lengths from BMS), you get a 12' Mean Machine with the right nose.

Or, if you use the 4" Mega Der Red Max nosecone and 4" OD / 3.9" ID tubing (many sources in various materials), you get a 16' Mean Machine. I'd really like to build this one someday, and possibly a 3" as well.

The 3" parts are of course much lighter than 4", and BT-80 is much lighter than 3", but you have to figure out the nosecone.

 

[mbeels]

There is a fellow at MDRA who flies a crazy tall, upscaled mean machine. It takes two people to carry. I've got some photos somewhere.....

 

[mbeels]

Found it, it is called "Twice as Mean Machine"

 

[cls]

a long time ago, Fliskits sold the Richter Recker, which was 4x sections of BT70, a 3:1 nose cone, and a 3x 24mm MMT. 4 fins. pretty tall, flew great with D12s, E9s. I have 3 F21s saved for it, never tried it, on the someday list.

 

[Art Upton]

The AeroTech Mirage rocket uses their BT-80HD Body & Nose cone and is pretty tall already; about 7 1/2 feet from fin tips to nose tip.

I think it actually looks better then the Mean Machine Fins and Nose Cone. Already setup with 29mm motor mount and Snap-In plastic fins, just add some Epoxy to the fin roots before snaping them in.

 

[bad_idea]

The AeroTech Mirage rocket uses their BT-80 HD nose cone and is pretty tall already; about 7 1/2 feet from fin tips to nose tip.

I think it actually looks better then the Mean Machine Fins and Nose Cone.

I agree. The Mirage is a great looking rocket.

 

[afadeev]

I was thinking of making a very tall BT-80 sized rocket. Then the idea of an upscaled Mean Machine hit. By my calculations, it would be around 9 and a half feet tall. So at that size you may have to call it "The Bus" or even "Randy Johnson Fastball."

The biggest challenge (for me) with tall paper-airframe rockets is their fragility during transportation.
Just getting the thing to the launch rod without incurring damage is a challenge.
What are you plans for transporting it to the site in one piece?

a

 

[Art Upton]

The biggest challenge (for me) with tall paper-airframe rockets is their fragility during transportation.
Just getting the thing to the launch rod without incurring damage is a challenge.
What are you plans for transporting it to the site in one piece?

a

The Aerotech Mirage is two piece* and uses BT-80HD, heavy duty tube, not the thin BT-80 that Estes uses in the Super Big Bertha. You can then transport it.

You can get BT-80HD & couplers from BMS and use a Aerotech style or other nose cone if you want to build your own.

If you wanted 9 feet , I would build it in 3 sections and screw the body tube to the couplers using small screws for take down and flight.

* The rocket separates in the middle for the each chute.

** Also do not use a Launch Rod, Use 8 - 12 feet of Rail at a club launch if you do not have your own rail launch pad.

I still have one I can put two 4 foot rails with the joiners I have for 8 feet. But my club where I could fly such a thing have 6 , 8 and 12 rails.

 

[SolarYellow]

It's a great idea, but it will probably be easier if you add 3' so you don't have to scratch build a matching nosecone: the Mean Machine uses the Red Max nose cone, so if you use the 3" Der Big Red Max nosecone and 3" OD tubes (you can buy it in 34" lengths from BMS), you get a 12' Mean Machine with the right nose.

Or, if you use the 4" Mega Der Red Max nosecone and 4" OD / 3.9" ID tubing (many sources in various materials), you get a 16' Mean Machine. I'd really like to build this one someday, and possibly a 3" as well.

The 3" parts are of course much lighter than 4", and BT-80 is much lighter than 3", but you have to figure out the nosecone.

The 3-inch DBRM NC is a convenient shortcut, but it has a short straight section at the bottom and then a single radius until the blunting. The PNC-55AO (Goblin), PNC-56, and PNC-60AH (DRM, Citation Patriot, and Mean Machine kits) all have multiple different radii between the airframe tangent and the blunting sphere, so the look is distinct and different. I haven't analyzed the 4-inch Estes NC yet.

Of course, I'm going the opposite way. Rockets fly better without excess length, so I'm going to use up a few sets of Rocketry Works closeout Mean Machine fins on shorter, faster, better-flying non-superrocs.

 

[cvanc]

Way back when I built a 'Really Big Mirage'. It was as simple as an extra full piece or Aerotech tubing and a coupler. It flew fine but it "wobbled" like a javelin with an H180 or H220. Definitely approaching the speed of cardboard...

 

[bjphoenix]

The Aerotech Mirage is two piece* and uses BT-80HD, heavy duty tube, not the thin BT-80 that Estes uses in the Super Big Bertha. You can then transport it.

It would be interesting to see how far you can go with BT-80 tubing. My impression is that it might be tough to reach the proportions of the MM but I don't know much about the problems involved. I watched some of the superroc competition at Naram and it looks pretty challenging.

 

[Sooner Boomer]

My attempt at this sort of silliness. I've still got the rocket.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/big-red-one.151408/

 

[mbeels]

Way back when I built a 'Really Big Mirage'. It was as simple as an extra full piece or Aerotech tubing and a coupler. It flew fine but it "wobbled" like a javelin with an H180 or H220. Definitely approaching the speed of cardboard...

I've got the "Twice as Mean Machine" on video doing a bit of wobbling. I lost focus (and tracking!), but skip to about 1:53

 

[Alan15578]

The biggest challenge (for me) with tall paper-airframe rockets is their fragility during transportation.
Just getting the thing to the launch rod without incurring damage is a challenge.
What are you plans for transporting it to the site in one piece?

a

I loaded my contest stupuidroc into a PVC pipe with end caps, then loaded that into my hatchback. The short finned part fit into an ordinary model box.

 

[OzHybrid]

I've got the "Twice as Mean Machine" on video doing a bit of wobbling. I lost focus (and tracking!), but skip to about 1:53

Looks like it's bent sitting in the sun. Black and Sun can do that.

 

[Initiator001]

The AeroTech Mirage rocket uses their BT-80HD Body & Nose cone and is pretty tall already; about 7 1/2 feet from fin tips to nose tip.

I think it actually looks better then the Mean Machine Fins and Nose Cone. Already setup with 29mm motor mount and Snap-In plastic fins, just add some Epoxy to the fin roots before snaping them in.

View attachment 670687

(Thread drift).

Thanks for the compliment about the Mirage design, Art.
I like it too.

When designing this kit I wanted to make a bigger 'Mean Machine'.
Using the Astrobee-D fins would increase the production run and hopefully lower the cost on that part.

Paul Hans came up with the name for the model. I think the Mirage hotel/casino was in the Las Vegas news at the time.

A big rocket which needed to fly on 'G' motors (Or 'punchy' 'F' motors).

I flew mine at NARAM-56 on the Sport Range. An AeroTech G40 motor gave a good boost with lots of fire and smoke.

 

[DocSeuss]

Has anyone tried the ASP Tall Boy?

 

[OzHybrid]

(Thread drift).

Thanks for the compliment about the Mirage design, Art.
I like it too.

When designing this kit I wanted to make a bigger 'Mean Machine'.
Using the Astrobee-D fins would increase the production run and hopefully lower the cost on that part.

Paul Hans came up with the name for the model. I think the Mirage hotel/casino was in the Las Vegas news at the time.

A big rocket which needed to fly on 'G' motors (Or 'punchy' 'F' motors).

I flew mine at NARAM-56 on the Sport Range. An AeroTech G40 motor gave a good boost with lots of fire and smoke.

I've put it the right way up..........

 

[OZRoc]

Has anyone tried the ASP Tall Boy?

Pretty sure I've got one in the build pile. Should drag it out.
Cheers

 

[Art Upton]

(Thread drift).

Thanks for the compliment about the Mirage design, Art.
I like it too.

When designing this kit I wanted to make a bigger 'Mean Machine'.
Using the Astrobee-D fins would increase the production run and hopefully lower the cost on that part.

Paul Hans came up with the name for the model. I think the Mirage hotel/casino was in the Las Vegas news at the time.

A big rocket which needed to fly on 'G' motors (Or 'punchy' 'F' motors).

I flew mine at NARAM-56 on the Sport Range. An AeroTech G40 motor gave a good boost with lots of fire and smoke.

Nice, I flew mine at a NARAM sport range also. I lost mine to an unfortunate accident, but I do have a previously owned* Aerotech Astrobee-D up in the rocket Loft of my work shed.

I should pull it down and fly it at the JMRC launch later this month. Thanks for mentioning the Astrobee-D to remind me of it.

* There is another thread about buying someone else's used pre-built rockets. They do come in handy sometimes.

 

[teepot]

I had a thought about the wobbly super long rockets. BMS has 34" coupler stock. Line the whole rocket with couplers. Or maybe run dowels or something similar inside to stiffen it. Hmmm.

 

[teepot]

Earlier today I started thinking about very long rockets. Four each 3" BT 34" long. Five 3" coupler stock 34" long. Plus the nose cone and it would be 12' 3" tall. I would sleeve the BT's with the couplers. I would be able to separate it into 34" sections by using screws to hold the BT connecting couplers in place. 38mm mount. Interesting idea. I'll see what it could weighs first.

 

[Art Upton]

I had a thought about the wobbly super long rockets. BMS has 34" coupler stock. Line the whole rocket with couplers. Or maybe run dowels or something similar inside to stiffen it. Hmmm.

Yes, good to make long "SuperRocs" from. Dowels make them too heavy to be fun or competitive.

It's been many years since NAR competition held G SuperRoc for the NARAM event. Last one I recall that I attended was NARAM 49. I did not compete however even though I had originally planed to. Only helped run the sport range with my JMRC club and fly sport/HPR.

 

[JRPoeKSU]

I had a thought about the wobbly super long rockets. BMS has 34" coupler stock. Line the whole rocket with couplers.

Earlier today I started thinking about very long rockets. Four each 3" BT 34" long. Five 3" coupler stock 34" long. Plus the nose cone and it would be 12' 3" tall. I would sleeve the BT's with the couplers. I would be able to separate it into 34" sections by using screws to hold the BT connecting couplers in place. 38mm mount. Interesting idea. I'll see what it could weighs first.

This has been living rent free in my head since my daughter got a Mean Machine a few months ago... and we haven't built it yet.
3" BMS 34" stock and couplers, would need at least 3.8 of each = 132" plus the BMS nose cone which is close to 4:1 (11") = 143" sooooo...
12 feet sounds about right...
Thinking smaller sections of couplers with centering rings and a long stuffer tube for the 38mm needed to slowly lift it without breaking in half.
Currently playing in OpenRocket so I ran a scale on the Estes MM to 3" (183%).... 1219 g without the couplers.
I'll get around to it, eventually

 

[bad_idea]

This has been living rent free in my head since my daughter got a Mean Machine a few months ago... and we haven't built it yet.
3" BMS 34" stock and couplers, would need at least 3.8 of each = 132" plus the BMS nose cone which is close to 4:1 (11") = 143" sooooo...
12 feet sounds about right...
Thinking smaller sections of couplers with centering rings and a long stuffer tube for the 38mm needed to slowly lift it without breaking in half.
Currently playing in OpenRocket so I ran a scale on the Estes MM to 3" (183%).... 1219 g without the couplers.
I'll get around to it, eventually

For 3" OD like both BMS and Estes tubing, you can buy the Der Big Red Max cone from Estes. It's a few dollars more than the BMS cone, plus an additional shipping charge, but it's roughly the right nose profile for a Mean Machine (see @SolarYellow post above about how it's not exact). Of course if you prefer a sharper nose than the original, the BMS cone is a good cone at a good price.

 

[Sooner Boomer]

I had a thought about the wobbly super long rockets. BMS has 34" coupler stock. Line the whole rocket with couplers. Or maybe run dowels or something similar inside to stiffen it. Hmmm.

Internal strakes.
Then fly it on an H999
I dare you.

 

[JRPoeKSU]

Currently playing in OpenRocket so I ran a scale on the Estes MM to 3" (183%).... 1219 g without the couplers.

I'm bored and so I OR built it...
Upscaled from the Estes MM 184% then swapped components for BMS tubes, couplers, MMT, CR, and nose cone... Fins are just upscaled and TTW.
And yup, its 12 FEET tall!!!
(2983 g / 6.576 lbs )
WOW!

(I just selected a BUNCH of motors and ran them. Parachute was best guess. No rail buttons yet.)

I like the J218-10 drilled for 8 second delay

 

[SolarYellow]

https://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Avoiding_the_Bends.pdf