If Estes wants more of my money, then...

[KILTED COWBOY]

So if hobbyists only account for 1-2% of sales
where do the majority of sales come from?

 

[Initiator001]

So if hobbyists only account for 1-2% of sales
where do the majority of sales come from?

Mostly mass-market outlets (Wal-Mart, Target, Hobby Lobby, etc).
The buyers are usually 'One-and-Done' consumers (Families).
That's why there are so many RTF/ARF models in the Estes line-up.
The higher-skill level kits are there to appeal to older modelers who have $$$ to spend and want to relive their youth.
Estes does a nice job of making something for almost everyone interested in 'traditional' model rocketry.
However, Estes has to make what will sell best for them.

 

[heada]

TRF members/die-hard Estes fans represent 1-2% of Estes sales at most.
Hobbyists always over-estimate their 'value' to a hobby/business.

I found that out working for AeroTech thirty years ago.

I knew it was low but didn't think it was that low. I was thinking 2-5% A die-hard fan may buy 20 motors per month but Walmart probably buys 1 or 2 semi-trailers worth per month for all their stores.

 

[jqavins]

I knew it was low but didn't think it was that low. I was thinking 2-5% A die-hard fan may buy 20 motors per month but Walmart probably buys 1 or 2 semi-trailers worth per month for all their stores.

Apples and oranges. Wally Mart doesn't go out and burn motors, and some the die-hard fans are some Wally Mart's customers. Still, if the one with reason to know says it's 1-2% then it's 1-2%, however that and the other 98-99% reach their users.

 

[Doug Holverson]

Does Wal-Mart or Target sell rockets again?

 

[Bruiser]

My WalMart doesn't have them just sayin'

-Bob

 

[BRS Hobbies]

I'm pretty sure that Walmart and Target aren't carrying model rockets anymore. I would say the largest volume of sales would be to schools with the bulk packs and such.

 

[gldknght]

Has anyone done an analysis of performance vs. cost of BP and APCP? I can't do it now in my morning quickies; the idea would be to gather total impulse and price for all the BP motors on the market and the same for composite motors and look at the average dollars per total impulse.

BP certainly has worse Isp (worse weight per impulse) and lower "impulse density" if you will (worse volume per impulse) so unless there is a cost advantage there's really no reason to go with bigger BP motors.

For best performance you'll always use APCP until ammonium dinitramide come way down in price, but there's room in the market (at least in what I'd like to see on the market) for good performance at a lower price. If BP gives it then yes, Estes, make bigger BP motors. If R-candy is it, then maybe Estes would be interested in finding a way to address the hygroscopicity problem. Maybe the Klima propellant? If none of those does it, I rather doubt Estes is interested in fundemental research into a whole new propellant type.

Also, once you start getting into the 38mm size motors, you are edging into "high power" rocketry and the certification process required to purchase high power motors.

And, hazmat shipping fees.

I think Hobby Lobby is unlikely to carry motors bigger than 29mm, lol.

 

[gldknght]

My WalMart doesn't have them just sayin'

-Bob

Neither does any of the three walmarts close to me. In fact, none that I've ever been in recently.

 

[cwbullet]

Walmart would so well to carry rockets. They had too much stock. A small section would sell.

 

[cerving]

Scouts launch a fair number of rockets too, most of the BSA shops carry a few rockets and motors. The volume is probably miniscule compared to HL and the like. The Wal*Marts in SoCal only seemed to carry them during the holidays.

 

[dr wogz]

I think every parent & grand parent has bought /will buy at least one.

Whether the kid builds & flies it, is another story. And as well, if he/she wants more than than 1..

(I've bought a couple for nieces & nephews who showed an initial interest, but that quickly faded. The rocket sat, unopened until it was tossed due to being crushed & useless at the back of the closet..)

How many buy a kit, not for the rocket, but for the parts. Needing a tube for a .. or the nosecone for a castle turret, or ..

 

[j.a.duke]

<snip>
OK, then, one thing they should do is use the real web! A FB page is not a substitute for a web page. They show the catalog and take orders on the real web; they should operate a forum and suggestion box there; screw FB. (Quite a number of businesses make this mistake and, perhaps you can tell, it's a pet peeve.)
<snip>

I'm in agreement here. I don't like FaceBook and even thought I have an account there, I login about once every two or three years. Too much of my personal information gets out of my control there and I don't trust them to honor any promise they make regarding that information.

Estes has a real web site-they should use it to the fullest.

Cheers,
Jon

 

[GlenP]

In addition to the nostalgic bring-backs, which they seem to be judiciously bringing back, why not do some bring-fronts? i.e. - new model rockets to highlight current missiles and rockets in development.

For example, the SLS.

How about making an updated Patriot missile inspired by the latest PAC-3 upgraded system, okay to make some fin adjustments to make the model stable, does not have to be totally scale.

https://lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/patriot-advanced-capability-3.html

and why not a model rocket version of the LRASM, a new modern ALCM. Would be kind of cool to have the bring-back re-released along with the bring-front, cruise missiles of today and yester-year, you know?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-158C_LRASM

How about the X-37B?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37

Did I mention the SLS? I am pretty sure I have mentioned the SLS a few times here. Consider this my pre-order request for the Estes SLS model rocket kit.

 

[gldknght]

In addition to the nostalgic bring-backs, which they seem to be judiciously bringing back, why not do some bring-fronts? i.e. - new model rockets to highlight current missiles and rockets in development.

For example, the SLS.

How about making an updated Patriot missile inspired by the latest PAC-3 upgraded system, okay to make some fin adjustments to make the model stable, does not have to be totally scale.

https://lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/patriot-advanced-capability-3.html

and why not a model rocket version of the LRASM, a new modern ALCM. Would be kind of cool to have the bring-back re-released along with the bring-front, cruise missiles of today and yester-year, you know?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-158C_LRASM

How about the X-37B?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37

Did I mention the SLS? I am pretty sure I have mentioned the SLS a few times here. Consider this my pre-order request for the Estes SLS model rocket kit.

Tell us how you REALLY feel about the SLS, don't sugar coat it!

 

[Doug Holverson]

Bring back the Skywinder! Why did they quit making it anyway? The market get saturated? The molds broke?

 

[Initiator001]

Bring back the Skywinder! Why did they quit making it anyway? The market get saturated? The molds broke?

Sales slowed down, possibly in part to poor reliability of the model.

I spent enough time on the phone to Estes Customer Service trying to get one of these models to work. I was sent replacement parts and entire kits but my success rate with getting the Skywinder to transition and spin-up was pretty low.

 

[5x7]

I have about 50 flights on one and 20 on another. The key to very fast rotation was graphite on the hub. Estes also made two revisions to literally keep the model together. One was a fiber disk above the motor to keep the plastic from melting there which caused the fin unit to separate. The other was a ring on the nosecone tabs to keep the nose on at ejection. I think a similar rocket but with the fin unit and nc done in bt50 size, same rotors and length, would be a good follow up.

 

[Red7Fifty]

I'd like the build the SR71 again.

 

[neil_w]

Why has *nobody* mentioned the SLS?

 

[Charles_McG]

I’d love to see scale kits for Constellation, SLS, DynaSoar, VentureStar, and any other planned and cancelled program.

 

[Red7Fifty]

BigFoot Launch Pad

 

[tomsteve]

What does Estes need to do to get more of your money?

has estes ever made a clustered rocket kit? id go for a 5 or so 18mm or 24mm clustered rocket kit.
staged clustered kits,too.

 

[James Harechmak]

3 of the original Estes Pro series were 24mm clusters.

What does Estes need to do to get more of your money?

has estes ever made a clustered rocket kit? id go for a 5 or so 18mm or 24mm clustered rocket kit.
staged clustered kits,too.

 

[BABAR]

3 of the original Estes Pro series were 24mm clusters.

Would certainly promote motor sales!

 

[neil_w]

Getting back to the SLS and other modern-day scale kits: I have to think that these would have more appeal to younger builders. Do kids today care about the Gemini Titan, or Saturn 1B? I honestly don't know. I continue to believe that some nice kits of the present or recent prototypes would have more attraction. How about a Starship model? Falcon 9 is a must, even though it costs $$ to license and SpaceX sells one. How about a real builders kit of that one with grid fins and landing legs? The SLS (I think someone might have mentioned that one) is presumably kittable without licensing... (I think?)

I think in some way the newer space rockets are less interesting in terms of their design, but they're much more relevant.

How about some of the newer, more modern military stuff? The IRIS-T I built is incredibly interesting (could do a simpler sport-scale version of that one as a kit).

I just feel like the scale models are sort of stuck in the past. I mean, the space program rockets are awesome, but they're not the only game in town.

 

[JohnBeach]

My wants are modest:
• replace current shock cord material with a soft-strength fabric braided elastic, especially on rockets like the 1/200th-scale Saturn V.
• BT-70 sized 2-engine cluster Gemini Titan (plastic cone and shroud would be okay, as would some newer clear fin unit).
• the return of Mini-Bertha, or even a BT-50 (Regular) Bertha with Mini-Bertha mod 70's decals would be fun.
• find a way to get a tumble-recovery Astron Scout back in the line up.
• a nice, simple boost glider, maybe even one with a plastic two-piece pop-pod hook system to make things easy to assemble.

 

[jqavins]

Getting back to the SLS and other modern-day scale kits: I have to think that these would have more appeal to younger builders. Do kids today care about the Gemini Titan, or Saturn 1B? I honestly don't know. I continue to believe that some nice kits of the present or recent prototypes would have more attraction. How about a Starship model? Falcon 9 is a must, even though it costs $$ to license and SpaceX sells one. How about a real builders kit of that one with grid fins and landing legs? The SLS (I think someone might have mentioned that one) is presumably kittable without licensing... (I think?)

This leads me to repeat myself from earlier. (I'll try not to do it again.) A series of scale models of major space launch vehicles all in the same scale. A flyable version of these sorts of posters. Maybe not the full range of sizes, but as much as is practicle.

Not altogether unrelated, is Quest still making MicroMax kits and motors? If not, maybe Estes could pick that up. It'd open the door for a bunch of new kits (including more of the small end of my single scale fleet idea.)

 

[Nytrunner]

That does get.....cumbersome

A 1/35 mercury redstone is 2(?) Ft long

A 1/35 sat5 is 10

 

[Marc_G]

For me, the only thing that would get me launching / building more is if it were easier to find a quiet & accessible launch site. I doubt there's much for Estes to do about that. :-(