ICEs and EVs

[PDawg]

It would be impossible to increase electric production in the US enough if even half the cars became EVs. We can't use Coal (like China) and new Nuclear plants take decades to build with all the regulations and red tape involved. Solar panels and windmills are cool but they can't do enough. Before thinking I'm anti Green please note I was an Environmentalist for decades before it became cool and profitable. I bought a 2023 Subaru last august, if I bought the EV equivalent it would've taken 15 years to recoup the extra cost without even factoring in the cost of electricity. To be fair, my work does prevents me from buying an EV but I have a garage with 220V already installed so it would be an option if I had a normal Job. Then again, I just ordered a 23 Subaru WRX with a manual transmission so I am a bit crazy.

 

[kuririn]

How many more miles are you going to drive that ?

I'm retired, so this is probably my last car.
Don't drive a lot nowadays like I used to.

 

[Greg Furtman]

I'm retired, so this is probably my last car.
Don't drive a lot nowadays like I used to.

Same here as I too am retired. When I was working (retired the summer of 2019) I commuted 100 miles a day. That's why I bought the Golf TDI. 45 mpg is nice. I worked at this job for 19 years and I figured out I had spent 374 days commuting in those 19 years. If I ever need to get another car I would buy a used EV.

 

[Funkworks]

It would be impossible to increase electric production in the US enough if even half the cars became EVs ...

Enough for what, and what's your point. I'm not green either by the way, I just support those who have new ideas to make things better (and try to come up with some 's myself ).

Top 10 Plug-In Hybrid (PHEV) Vehicles with The Most Range For 2022 - Motor Illustrated

Plug-in hybrid vehicles are a good solution for people who want to burn less fuel but can't quite make the switch to fully electric vehicles

motorillustrated.com

 

[jderimig]

I'm retired, so this is probably my last car.
Don't drive a lot nowadays like I used to.

Me too. Sorta. We will be the last polluters.

 

[Cape Byron]

I rode one of the electric scooters they have in Brisbane yesterday.

It was okay. Some suspension would help.

Vehicles : Neuron Mobility

Neuron's next-generation e-scooter and pedal-assisted e-bike are designed specifically for rental and rider safety.

www.rideneuron.com

 

[OverTheTop]

There is a thing that is happening here where a Tesla driver will park their car at a fast charger and just use it as a parking spot. They "forget" to plug the charger in, and return to their cars hours later. Meanwhile other users have been queuing up to charge. Some people have taken to plugging these cars in, which attracts a $1/minute fee for staying there after they are 100% charged. That's a neat way of encouraging manners around the fast chargers!

 

[Funkworks]

There is a thing that is happening here where a Tesla driver will park their car at a fast charger and just use it as a parking spot. They "forget" to plug the charger in, and return to their cars hours later. Meanwhile other users have been queuing up to charge. Some people have taken to plugging these cars in, which attracts a $1/minute fee for staying there after they are 100% charged. That's a neat way of encouraging manners around the fast chargers!

I saw an article on that too:

Tesla Owners Punishing Peers Who Tie Up Superchargers Without Charging

 

[KC3KNM]

There is a thing that is happening here where a Tesla driver will park their car at a fast charger and just use it as a parking spot. They "forget" to plug the charger in, and return to their cars hours later. Meanwhile other users have been queuing up to charge. Some people have taken to plugging these cars in, which attracts a $1/minute fee for staying there after they are 100% charged. That's a neat way of encouraging manners around the fast chargers!

We have cables for people like this at work for people that use charge spaces as privileged parking or ICE cars blocking stalls. Plug in the extension, park them in and charge. Hopefully they’re not in a rush.

 

[PDawg]

Enough for what, and what's your point. I'm not green either by the way, I just support those who have new ideas to make things better (and try to come up with some 's myself ).

Top 10 Plug-In Hybrid (PHEV) Vehicles with The Most Range For 2022 - Motor Illustrated

Plug-in hybrid vehicles are a good solution for people who want to burn less fuel but can't quite make the switch to fully electric vehicles

motorillustrated.com

Plug in Hybrids are a far better option for passenger cars, and can be purchased by anyone.

 

[CalebJ]

Plug in Hybrids are a far better option for passenger cars, and can be purchased by anyone.

For some use cases, they certainly are. But as a blanket statement that's a gross oversimplification.

 

[kuririn]

There is a thing that is happening here where a Tesla driver will park their car at a fast charger and just use it as a parking spot. They "forget" to plug the charger in, and return to their cars hours later. Meanwhile other users have been queuing up to charge. Some people have taken to plugging these cars in, which attracts a $1/minute fee for staying there after they are 100% charged. That's a neat way of encouraging manners around the fast chargers!

Ve haf vays.

 

[PDawg]

For some use cases, they certainly are. But as a blanket statement that's a gross oversimplification.

That's because it really is that simple. Electric cars aren't an option for everyone, but hybrids are.

 

[Charles Botkin]

That's because it really is that simple. Electric cars aren't an option for everyone, but hybrids are.

Umm No they are not..
Unless you are only talking about getting from point A to point B with a passenger ..
There are no current EV's or hybrids that can replace a 3/4t or larger work truck.

 

[jderimig]

Umm No they are not..
Unless you are only talking about getting from point A to point B with a passenger ..
There are no current EV's or hybrids that can replace a 3/4t or larger work truck.`

But you will see mild hybrids like the Ram "ETorque" system in the mix. My 1500 has it, I do not know if its in the 2500 series yet.

 

[PDawg]

Umm No they are not..
Unless you are only talking about getting from point A to point B with a passenger ..
There are no current EV's or hybrids that can replace a 3/4t or larger work truck.

I was referring to the technology of Hybrids vs pure electric for a car. You are correct that no options exist for larger work trucks. My industry uses large F-450 box trucks and there are many reasons an Electric version couldn’t work even if they were free.

 

[Funkworks]

Note: parking at an EV station causes a loss to the station's owners, and to EV owners planning to charge there. Private rules apply to private land.

... there are many reasons an Electric version couldn’t work even if they were free.

I'm interested in knowing what those reasons are, and what specs you have in mind for a hypothetical electric F450.

 

[DEmery]

Road-Tripping in Our Long-Term EV Test Cars Has Been … Interesting

Broken electric chargers, single-digit temperatures, optimistic range estimates, and more have tested our patience.

www.motortrend.com

 

[Charles Botkin]

Note: parking at an EV station causes a loss to the station's owners, and to EV owners planning to charge there. Private rules apply to private land.


I'm interested in knowing what those reasons are, and what specs you have in mind for a hypothetical electric F450.

Oh I can start this with something simple like my 1ton work truck.
Daily I pull a 35k load, I go 800 miles before it is time to add more fuel.
When this happens I hit the transfer switch and in 10min I'm full again all while still driving.
Lets see an electric do the first 800 miles of that trip much less the refill without stopping..

 

[Funkworks]

Oh I can start this with something simple like my 1ton work truck.
Daily I pull a 35k load, I go 800 miles before it is time to add more fuel.
When this happens I hit the transfer switch and in 10min I'm full again all while still driving.
Lets see an electric do the first 800 miles of that trip much less the refill without stopping..

How many miles total in a day? Is that in one leg or do you stop at all for lunch and dinner?

️️

Here’s more on the E-Ray:

 

[Charles Botkin]

How many miles total in a day? Is that in one leg or do you stop at all for lunch and dinner?

️️

Here’s more on the E-Ray:

This is a once a month long trip and we do a driver swap at 500 and the second driver finishes the 941mile trip..
We do bathroom and food stops as needed.
The rest of the month is just me and a max of 600 in a day.
I did just a bit over 68k miles last year.

 

[kuririn]

Nio Firefly EV.
4 dr. sedan.
Swappable battery technology.
Under $15000.
(I hope it comes to the states).

 

[Sandy H.]

We're going to do a test drive in a model Y on Friday. My wife has very sensitive hearing in the high kHz and I'm concerned to see if she will hear anything that gives her a headache. The CVT in her Honda CRV produces a whine that she can hear and gets a headache, but I can't hear much above 10k, so I don't perceive it. Crossing fingers that she doesn't hear anything bad!

If there are any go-to questions that we should ask on the test drive, I'd love to hear them. Feel free to pm instead of clogging the thread.

Sandy.

 

[vcp]

I had to open the hood of my Leaf today... to jump an ICE. Before that it'd been opened only once in over 18 months, to add washer fluid and dust it off.

 

[Funkworks]

... very sensitive hearing in the high kHz ...

As far as I know, that usually dissapears with age.

If there are any go-to questions that we should ask on the test drive, I'd love to hear them. Feel free to pm instead of clogging the thread.

If it's second-hand, try to get what was the original range, the present range, and see if it's along what's expected for the same model year and mileage. Also try to get what's the range drop in winter. Those would be my first questions. Average values should be available online somewhere for you to compare.

Nio Firefly EV.
4 dr. sedan.
Swappable battery technology.
Under $15000.
(I hope it comes to the states).

I would not hold my breath for a network of battery swapping stations to be built.

 

[kuririn]

I would not hold my breath for a network of battery swapping stations to be built.

If I were a condo or apmt owner I'd jump at the chance to get an EV without a battery for $11K less and subscribe to a monthly battery swapping service with up to 6 swaps for $12/ month.
3 to 5 minutes per swap, and you're fully charged. Like filling up at a gas station.
No worries about battery repairs or degradation over time.
And NIO now offers to sell the battery with the car for owners who prefer to charge at home.
They plan to start selling their cars and building swapping stations in the US in 2025.
Hope it comes to pass.
Anyhoo, here's Scotty Kilmer on NIO:

 

[Funkworks]

If I were a condo or apmt owner I'd jump at the chance to get an EV without a battery for $11K less and subscribe to a monthly battery swapping service with up to 6 swaps for $12/ month.
3 to 5 minutes per swap, and you're fully charged. Like filling up at a gas station.
No worries about battery repairs or degradation over time.
And NIO now offers to sell the battery with the car for owners who prefer to charge at home.
They plan to start selling their cars and building swapping stations in the US in 2025.
Hope it comes to pass.
Anyhoo, here's Scotty Kilmer on NIO:

For a long time, I thought battery swapping would be great, and it appears to be in the case of scooters (see https://www.gogoro.com/), but of the big 3 three US car makers, none is bold enough to do it, and while Tesla considered it at first, they abandonned the idea to make structural batteries and superchargers instead. Getting companies to agree on a standard battery size appears to be impossible, and having 110,000 (current number of US gas stations) or so battery swapping garages from different auto makers is hard to imagine. For a single company, building a comparable battery-swapping network would require a staggering amount of capital. And I'm not sure how a $12/month figure is possible. At this point, I don't see how car battery swapping can happen.

Note that daily overnight charging is already more convenient than standing to fuel at a gasoline station a few times a month. Technically, it's interesting, but I doubt it can catch on. I guess we'll see.

 

[Tyeeking]

If I were a condo or apmt owner I'd jump at the chance to get an EV without a battery for $11K less and subscribe to a monthly battery swapping service with up to 6 swaps for $12/ month.
3 to 5 minutes per swap, and you're fully charged. Like filling up at a gas station.
No worries about battery repairs or degradation over time.
And NIO now offers to sell the battery with the car for owners who prefer to charge at home.
They plan to start selling their cars and building swapping stations in the US in 2025.
Hope it comes to pass.
Anyhoo, here's Scotty Kilmer on NIO:

A Netflix subscription is $20/month. Nobody is going to be changing out your EV batteries 6 times a month for a lousy $12/month. LOL

 

[jderimig]

For a long time, I thought battery swapping would be great, and it appears to be in the case of scooters (see https://www.gogoro.com/), but of the big 3 three US car makers, none is bold enough to do it, and while Tesla considered it at first, they abandonned the idea to make structural batteries and superchargers instead. Getting companies to agree on a standard battery size appears to be impossible, and having 110,000 (current number of US gas stations) or so battery swapping garages from different auto makers is hard to imagine. For a single company, building a comparable battery-swapping network would require a staggering amount of capital. And I'm not sure how a $12/month figure is possible. At this point, I don't see how car battery swapping can happen.

Note that daily overnight charging is already more convenient than standing to fuel at a gasoline station a few times a month. Technically, it's interesting, but I doubt it can catch on. I guess we'll see.

That's because the EV car market product model is wrong. A commuter EV product which will serve a large market need could be viable with a 50 mile battery which would lend itself to a battery swapping model. The product would be cheaper, lighter, would get longer tire life and cost of production (lower cost frame, motors, suspension and braking components) would be cheaper with a much lower manufacturing carbon footprint in case any one cares about that.

 

[KC3KNM]

That's because the EV car market product model is wrong. A commuter EV product which will serve a large market need could be viable with a 50 mile battery which would lend itself to a battery swapping model. The product would be cheaper, lighter, would get longer tire life and cost of production (lower cost frame, motors, suspension and braking components) would be cheaper with a much lower manufacturing carbon footprint in case any one cares about that.

Even without battery swapping small battery EVs are the way to go. Way more fun to drive, too. There’s no need to lug an extra thousand pounds of battery around for your daily commute, especially when charging infrastructure is still trash for road trips.