Batteries keep getting better. The more recent the EV or hybrid, the better the battery. All the brands offer EVs and hybrids now and none of them wants to burn. Expensive sure but in the same ball park as what people pay in gasoline to drive the same distance (100,000 or 200,000 miles or whatever).
Considering the first lithium packs were used in 08’ which is the same year the Roadster came out with lithium traction pack… you’re talking about nickel based batteries.
That's what people like to say but do we really know? I've been using devices with Lithium Ion batteries for a long time and I don't see them getting any better. I've seen some actually get worse. We all know that batteries lose capacity with time, in devices such as my laptop computers, my cordless drills, my cellphone, flashlight and camera. I've had problems with batteries in all of them. This means that a Tesla will eventually have less range than it has when new. People on the internet will say that Tesla has better batteries than other companies. Then you find where someone has pulled a battery pack out of a Tesla then they took it apart and found it filled with 18650 cells, the same cells that are used in my flashlights and cordless drill. I found someone who pulled the battery pack out of a new Rivian and took it apart- filled with 18650 cells. I'm sure that some manufacturers of 18650 cells are higher quality than others, but the technology is the same. Tesla may have better management software for batteries but are the batteries themselves really any better?
It really depends on design and manufacturing choices. My experience with lithium polymer batteries in the hobby market is that the race to drive prices down has led to lousy lifespans. I have some Korean Kokam LiPoly packs that are over 15 years old (from back before we even understood how important balance charging was) that are just fine, and I’ve had some batteries from HobbyKing that lasted two years before they puffed up — both treated similarly.
Some batteries last longer than others, but low quality ones still exist. The capacity (or range) over time can "easily" be measured and records are meant to be broken.
Have you seen the advertisement for the Mercedes that runs on AA batteries? I was expecting something better than that. IOW I was expecting something better than Panasonic 18650 cells. All consumer devices- cellphones, flashlights, laptop computers, power tools have the problem with reducing power capacity as they get older. Tesla fans claim that this definitely does not happen with them. If they use the same batteries as other consumer devices then it will definitely happen with them. Tesla has a lot of engineering ability but do they have more than the company that makes Samsung phones? the company that makes iphones? the companies that make Dell laptops? hp laptops? ASUS laptops? Surely if Tesla knows how to make batteries last much longer wouldn't one of these other companies have figured it out too?
I'm not sure why you're hung up on the cell size. Putting cells in parallel lowers the resistance of the pack. Which lowers the heat dissipation and makes the whole deal more efficient. There's a trade off in weight and complexity of BMS/pack build, but a large cell will typically have higher losses to heat vs two (or more) smaller cells in parallel with the same total capacity and chemisty for a given load.
Right now the biggest obstacle to EV business is battery cost. There is a ton of capital equipment already fully depreciated to zero to manufacture 18650 cans. The fastest path to manufacturing EV's now is to use that capital. In the future the big 4 (Ford, GM, VW) will most likely develop their own battery platforms. GM has already done this with their Ultium battery platform. The result is an $105,000 base price Silverado EV.
No.
My Hyundai is 3 years old and has yet to show a range loss. What those Tesla fans are saying is they haven't seen a range loss yet. We all know it will happen, but no one is quite sure when. It's a curve like this but we can't know for sure what happens at the 15 year mark until 15 years have passed.
Of course, but battery management is better in cars.
Panasonic is one of Tesla's main suppliers. It would be interesting to know their specs but I don't think they're available to just anyone.
For one thing, cars have systems to manage battery conditions like their temperature. You wouldn't be able to fit these systems in a phone or computer. There's cooling and heating involved.
That's a good point, and Tesla as just last year introduced their own 4680 cells, which are bigger, require less wiring, and are quicker to produce.
I'm not sure about that. I had a few cells replaced (under warranty) but car still ran as usual. All it did was turn on the "service car soon" once in while. So they were "bad" I suppose, but it wasn't catastrophic. If they don't go bad, it's not really a problem. That's part of what I mean when I say they keep getting better: quality control for mass production is improving.
Good point, and cost can also be adjusted for supply/demand and the fact that users don't need to buy gasoline. A car with a battery is worth the cost of a car + the cost of a battery.
Cost can also be adjusted for supply/demand and the fact that users don't need to buy gasoline. A car with a battery is worth the cost of a car + the cost of a battery.
I wonder if the suspension compents are going to be standardized across models like the MQB platform was?
I understand that a problem with ICE vehicles is that if one piston goes bad, it knocks out the whole engine. It seems that if you could have fewer and bigger pistons, the car could be a lot more reliable. Or maybe you could just disconnect the bad piston from the crankshaft so that you can keep driving.
From my recollection the rotary engine takes up less space than a comparable ICE producing the same horsepower. So why not a rotary in a hybrid, instead of just as a range extender?
Do rotary engines have a sweet spot for fuel economy in terms of RPM or power output? If they do, they could be a reasonable range extender that only operates at the best efficiency point to charge the battery.
That's a good point--they're not just designing an engine; they're designing a system. It also helps that a plug-in hybrid with range extender is carrying the engine around all the time, whether it's running or not. That gives an extra benefit to a lightweight range extender since many (most?) of the miles driven on a plug-in hybrid will be electric-only.Mazda never really 'dropped' the rotary - they have continued to beaver away at the design almost constantly. It's fair to assume that as a range extender the boffins have found a trade off point where light weight and power output is offset against a somewhat thirsty engine.
Must do some more reading, methinks.
Oddly enough, I found suspensions fascinating when I had my previous car and had to replace it bit by bit, buying parts online to receive them home before bringing everything to a mechanic. But since I switched car, I don't think about suspensions anymore. I don't even know what's under my Hyundai. All I think about now is the battery.
I've worked on a lot of ICE cars, I've seen holes burned in pistons (in which case the car keeps driving), and I've seen pistons come apart (which pretty much kills the engine immediately).
That's mostly fair--the time we had a valve go bad, the van still drove on 5 cylinders. The unburned gas going by on the drive back from Montana did kill the catalytic converter though.
