ICEs and EVs

jderimig

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
4,619
Reaction score
2,392
Agree. Only the one person I was responding to has done so.
Expect ad hominems when presenting hard facts and math that go against the heterodoxy. Actually Funkworks is very fair and doesn't play like this. I applaud him even when I tweek his posts a bit.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
9,252
Reaction score
8,480
Location
Hawaii
Ah understand. So Iceland with a population of 350,000 living on a volcanic island really isn't the benchmark for renewable energy costs for the Hawaii plan is it?
Don't know about benchmark, but they are an example of 100% sustainable energy production. So yes, it can be done.
EDIT: And by the way, they are achieving 100% sustainable non fossil fuel electric production while paying a significantly lower electric rate than their EU neighbors.
So greener, cheaper, and sustainable.
 
Last edited:

jderimig

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
4,619
Reaction score
2,392
Don't know about benchmark, but they are an example of 100% sustainable energy production. So yes, it can be done.
EDIT: And by the way, they are achieving 100% sustainable non fossil fuel electric production while paying a significantly lower electric rate than their EU neighbors.
So greener, cheaper, and sustainable.
Geothermal is nice. We should all live on a Volcano. I have been doing some initial research on the Hawaii project. I will start another thread where I would like your input to see if what I am finding is accurate. Ok?
 

Blast it Tom!

Well-Known Dweeb
TRF Supporter
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
1,592
Location
Pittsburgh
Well, this one just hit my inbox through the ASME. Apparently these fellow's have found a way around dendrites..

We still have material scarcity to work around as was pointed out elsewhere...
 

Funkworks

Low Earth Orbit, obstructing Earth's view of Venus
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
4,179
Reaction score
4,502
Motor Trend Car of the Year 2022 (Not ev car of the year, CAR of the year)
I suspect Lucid would not exist were it not for the Saudis, who are investors, future clients, and hosts of a Lucid manufacturing plant. Lucid CEO Rawlinson worked for Tesla 10 years ago, but since Tesla's stated mission is all about sustainability, I suspect there might have been disagreements over the role of the Saudis, and Rawlinson saw an opportunity to start Lucid with them. All speculation, but my point is that these cars are literally made for royalty.

Well, this one just hit my inbox through the ASME. Apparently these fellow's have found a way around dendrites..
Lots going on in solid state but nothing on the market yet that I know of.

🔥⚡🔥⚡🔥⚡🔥⚡🔥⚡🔥⚡

The animator's frustration is hilarious:

 
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
9,252
Reaction score
8,480
Location
Hawaii
1663961341688.png

Xpeng G9 SUV, goes on sale in China and Europe in October.
Fast charges from 10% to 80% in 15 minutes on some models.
Or fast charge for 5 minutes to add 126 miles.
436 mile range on some models.
Semi autonomous.
$43,800.
 
Last edited:

Funkworks

Low Earth Orbit, obstructing Earth's view of Venus
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
4,179
Reaction score
4,502
Xpeng G9 SUV, goes on sale in China and Europe in October.
Fast charges from 10% to 80% in 15 minutes on some models.
Or fast charge for 5 minutes to add 126 miles.
436 mile range on some models.
Semi autonomous.
$43,800.
I don't think it will be available in America, but it might affect Tesla's sales in China.

⚡ 🔥 ⚡ 🔥 ⚡ 🔥 ⚡ 🔥

"It's the first GM engine or transmission plant to begin the long transition from internal combustion engines to electric vehicles."

 

boatgeek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
5,282
Reaction score
4,564
For those of you that have EVs, how much did it cost to install the home charger?
Did the dealer subsidize the installation?
This isn't exactly the answer you're looking for, but we charge our Leaf off of a 110VAC outlet. I think there's been once in 7 years that it wasn't fully charged overnight (except the times we forgot to plug it in :facepalm:).
 

Funkworks

Low Earth Orbit, obstructing Earth's view of Venus
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
4,179
Reaction score
4,502
For those of you that have EVs, how much did it cost to install the home charger?
Did the dealer subsidize the installation?
None for me. The 110V charger included with the car is enough to charge overnight what I drive in a day (my small PHEV battery only does about 28 miles anyway). However I did get a quote from an electrician and they wanted about $700 for the charger itself, and about $1000 to setup the 240V distribution.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
9,252
Reaction score
8,480
Location
Hawaii
This isn't exactly the answer you're looking for, but we charge our Leaf off of a 110VAC outlet. I think there's been once in 7 years that it wasn't fully charged overnight (except the times we forgot to plug it in :facepalm:).
None for me. The 110V charger included with the car is enough to charge overnight what I drive in a day (my small PHEV battery only does about 28 miles anyway). However I did get a quote from an electrician and they wanted about $700 for the charger itself, and about $1000 to setup the 240V distribution.
So rather than waiting for the battery charge to get way down you both trickle charge nightly?
Do you guys charge to 80-85% or to 100%?
 

boatgeek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
5,282
Reaction score
4,564
So rather than waiting for the battery charge to get way down you both trickle charge nightly?
Do you guys charge to 80-85% or to 100%?
We trickle charge nightly to 100%. Charging to 100 isn’t supposed to be as good for the battery, but we also haven’t seen degradation in range either. Maybe the trickle charge helps there.
 

mach7

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
2,986
Reaction score
1,798
I got my 240V charger off of ebay for under $400 shipped 5 years ago. I imagine they are a bit more now.
I had an unused 240V easily accessible to my garage so i did it myself for under $100.

I think if you have a 240V line nearby an electrician could do the job for under $1000.
If you don't have 240V in your house it could get expensive.
If you have an electric clothes dryer you have a 240V line.

I keep my Volt plugged in anytime its in the garage, Its what Chevy recommends to keep the batteries heated or cooled to the optimum temp.
 

Funkworks

Low Earth Orbit, obstructing Earth's view of Venus
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
4,179
Reaction score
4,502
So rather than waiting for the battery charge to get way down you both trickle charge nightly?
Do you guys charge to 80-85% or to 100%?
In my case, when the battery is down to about 10-12 miles, which only happens on weekends, I switch to EV mode.

I trickle charge almost every day (I can usually skip a day) to 100% indicated. I’m quite sure it’s not the actual 100% capacity of the battery and that there’s a buffer or safety margin, but I haven’t found hard data on that.

I think all EV makers should prevent customers from reaching the real 100% and call a maximum safe point “100%” instead. Then no one would have to worry about choosing 80% or 90% etc.
 
Last edited:

BEC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
4,893
Reaction score
1,707
Location
Auburn, WA
For those of you that have EVs, how much did it cost to install the home charger?
Did the dealer subsidize the installation?
My power company, Puget Sound Energy (the same one that @boatgeek has) had a rebate which pretty much paid for the level 2 EVSE itself (ours is from Clipper Creek). I had several things done by the electrician at the same time he ran the 240V circuit for the EVSE, so it might not be representative. I think I paid about $1000 for the electrical work. That’s kind of on the high side for such a thing.
 

AeroTech

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
980
Reaction score
2,346
For those of you that have EVs, how much did it cost to install the home charger?
Did the dealer subsidize the installation?
I’m not exactly sure, because the NEMA 14-50 outlets were installed in the garage when our house was built. Probably a few hundred dollars max.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
9,252
Reaction score
8,480
Location
Hawaii
The $5900+ drop in the MSRP of the Chevy Bolt is attractive but it kinda loses it's appeal when the dealer tacks on a $4888 "Market adjustment" to the price of the car.
2022-10-06 (3).png

Can't say I blame the dealer for charging what the market will bear.
Doubt that I can "bargain" the dealer down cuz EVs are selling like hotcakes around here.
Good ole American Capitalism.
Sigh.
 
Last edited:

jderimig

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
4,619
Reaction score
2,392
The $5900+ drop in the MSRP of the Chevy Bolt is attractive but it kinda loses it's appeal when the dealer tacks on a $4888 "Market adjustment" to the price of the car.
View attachment 540738

Can't say I blame the dealer for charging what the market will bear.
Doubt that I can "bargain" the dealer down cuz EVs are selling like hotcakes around here.
Good ole American Capitalism.
Sigh.
Since the price is about the same with or without the rebate i wonder how GM feels about transferring the margin they gave up to the dealer instead?
 

Funkworks

Low Earth Orbit, obstructing Earth's view of Venus
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
4,179
Reaction score
4,502
... when the dealer tacks on a $4888 "Market adjustment" to the price of the car ...
That's been a problem lately. Individual dealers mark up their prices because used cars have been selling for near the cost of new ones. Ford HQ has been creative in trying to control this, but I haven't seen anything from GM HQ. The worst I've seen is a Mercedes EQS marked up 50k.

Available in 2023.

In my view, Hyundai became a serious force when they released the Ioniq in 3 versions (HEV, PHEV and BEV) and it got better reviews than the Prius (part of why I chose it). From there on, Hyundai seems to have been among the most aggressive EV makers. They have now dropped the small sedan altogether, and are using the "Ioniq" name for their BEV lineup. The "Ioniq 5" was a hit this year, and I expect the "Ioniq 6" to be a hit next year, I think it looks amazing.
 

jderimig

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
4,619
Reaction score
2,392
That's been a problem lately. Individual dealers mark up their prices because used cars have been selling for near the cost of new ones. Ford HQ has been creative in trying to control this, but I haven't seen anything from GM HQ. The worst I've seen is a Mercedes EQS marked up 50k.
The problem is supply not meeting demand. The Fed is working to fix that. The solution for Ford and GM is not interfere with their dealers market, its to increase supply. Which GM and Ford don't want to do because they are probably losing money on every EV they are selling now.

Keep your powder dry.
 
Last edited:

Funkworks

Low Earth Orbit, obstructing Earth's view of Venus
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
4,179
Reaction score
4,502
The problem is supply not meeting demand. The Fed is working to fix that. The solution for Ford and GM is not interfere with their dealers market, its to increase supply. Which GM and Ford don't want to do because they are probably losing money on every EV they are selling now.
By "Ford HQ has been creative in trying to control this, ..." I was referring to things like:

"The new policy says that 75% of cars ordered by dealers must be name-matched to a customer."


That means the price must agreed upon, before the dealer gets a hold of the car.
 

jderimig

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
4,619
Reaction score
2,392
By "Ford HQ has been creative in trying to control this, ..." I was referring to things like:

"The new policy says that 75% of cars ordered by dealers must be name-matched to a customer."


That means the price must agreed upon, before the dealer gets a hold of the car.
That article says nothing about limits to 'agreed price" or if that has to be disclosed to Ford.
 

Funkworks

Low Earth Orbit, obstructing Earth's view of Venus
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
4,179
Reaction score
4,502
That article says nothing about limits to 'agreed price" or if that has to be disclosed to Ford.
Fascinating, maybe you understood something else from the article.

⚡ 🔥⚡🔥⚡🔥⚡🔥⚡🔥

"AbramsX: A main battle tank for the next generation, the AbramsX technology demonstrator features reduced weight for improved mobility and transportability, delivering the same tactical range as the M1A2 Abrams with 50% less fuel consumption. The AbramsX’s hybrid power pack supports the U.S. Army’s climate and electrification strategies, enhances silent watch capability and even allows for some silent mobility. With a reduced crew size and AI-enabled lethality, survivability, mobility, manned/unmanned teaming (MUM-T) and autonomous capabilities, AbramsX can be a key node in lethal battlefield networks and serve as a bridge from Abrams SEPv3 and SEPv4 to a future tank."

 

mach7

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
2,986
Reaction score
1,798
While I see the near silent capabilities of a hybrid tank to have some benefits, the first concern of ANY weapon system needs to be the capability to destroy the enemy. If hybridization can help that I'm all for it, if it's just to make some politicians feel good, well no.

I can see them being of value for recon and small, dedicated strike groups that need to highly mobile and quiet.

A quick scan of the article does not mention the charging needs/requirements. I'm assuming these have been studied.
 

boatgeek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
5,282
Reaction score
4,564
While I see the near silent capabilities of a hybrid tank to have some benefits, the first concern of ANY weapon system needs to be the capability to destroy the enemy. If hybridization can help that I'm all for it, if it's just to make some politicians feel good, well no.

I can see them being of value for recon and small, dedicated strike groups that need to highly mobile and quiet.

A quick scan of the article does not mention the charging needs/requirements. I'm assuming these have been studied.
I would expect (and I don't really know anything about this project in particular) that the battery is charged off of the main gas turbine rather than a plug-in. Anything they can do to have the turbine shut down more of the time is good news for fuel consumption since turbines are such gas hogs with relatively little change in fuel consumption between full power and no power. Reducing fuel consumption reduces the big fat tail of logistics support, and would definitely help in theater. Some short time silent running (or silent stationkeeping) would be a nice bonus.
 

mach7

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
2,986
Reaction score
1,798
A problem with turbines is they don't start nice and quick like reciprocating engines.

Starting the CFM of a 737 takes about 30-40 seconds.
 

rharshberger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
11,709
Reaction score
3,549
Location
Pasco, WA
While I see the near silent capabilities of a hybrid tank to have some benefits, the first concern of ANY weapon system needs to be the capability to destroy the enemy. If hybridization can help that I'm all for it, if it's just to make some politicians feel good, well no.

I can see them being of value for recon and small, dedicated strike groups that need to highly mobile and quiet.

A quick scan of the article does not mention the charging needs/requirements. I'm assuming these have been studied.
I will declare bullshit on "near silent" AbramsX anything weighing 65 tons and moving is audible and easy to hear long before it gets to you and feel through the gound, unless its moving about the speed of your average garden slug.
 
Top