I worry about us...

[NTP2]

None of us had poured aluminum castings, though, that was fun!

I’ve done that one, I built a furnace from a metal bucket some cement and a blowtorch.

 

[teepot]

In my early teen years I helped one of the Boy Scout leaders that did work at our summer camps wire a new building. When I was about 6 my grandfather started teaching me how to use tools. What bothers me a lot about kids now is something I heard about kids not being able to read cursive. That's nuts. It's not a foreign language.

 

[NTP2]

What bothers me a lot about kids now is something I heard about kids not being able to read cursive. That's nuts. It's not a foreign language.

Honestly it kind of is, with computers no one uses it anymore for anything. So why learn it?

 

[OverTheTop]

Wow, I wish I could do that. I have no clue how to use a mill, I can at least do a plane cut on a lathe.

Luckily my dad was a mechanical engineer. When I was around 6 or so he could ask "Pass me the 1/2 inch spanner" when he was under a car and I would.

 

[lr64]

OK, I totally forgot about 8th grade wood shop. I think I've tried to excise that year from my mind. So I hadn't used power tools much at all before that.

I used a chain saw from a fairly young age. (10? 12?) I still have all my appendages. What's more amazing is that my dad kept all his. I hated that saw. I LIKED shop.

 

[Antares JS]

Honestly it kind of is, with computers no one uses it anymore for anything. So why learn it?

Reading historical documents and writing quickly. I write cursive almost exclusively.

 

[ksaves2]

Reading historical documents and writing quickly. I write cursive almost exclusively.

I was told that most schools don't teach cursive anymore. I guess one has to figure out how to make a signature then! Kurt

 

[Antares JS]

I was told that most schools don't teach cursive anymore. I guess one has to figure out how to make a signature then! Kurt

It's true, though my wife and I have vowed to teach our kids cursive ourselves.

 

[Rocket-Fan]

To be fair, I’m not sure I had used a power tool more than 10 times by age 16.

No shop class when you went to school? By the time I was 15 I was familiar with woodworking and metalworking. Our school had lathes, mills, a full wood shop. I rebuilt the briggs engine from our riding lawnmower as a class project ...

We built model rockets as a class in 4th grade. Rolled our own body tubes, cut the fins, assembled and flew them on the baseball field.

 

[ksaves2]

No shop class when you went to school? By the time I was 15 I was familiar with woodworking and metalworking. Our school had lathes, mills, a full wood shop ...

When I had shop class in '69 the teacher "Dusty Rhodes" had one major rule, "Only the teacher runs the table saw." He would rough cut the project from our hand drawn plans and then we ran the other machines. It was a bit odd as he did allow us to use a bandsaw which I thought could do "lotsa" damage if one wasn't careful. Kurt

 

[boatgeek]

No shop class when you went to school? By the time I was 15 I was familiar with woodworking and metalworking. Our school had lathes, mills, a full wood shop. I rebuilt the briggs engine from our riding lawnmower as a class project ...

We built model rockets as a class in 4th grade. Rolled our own body tubes, cut the fins, assembled and flew them on the baseball field.

See the followup later. I did have shop class in 8th grade, including drill press, bandsaw, jointer, table saw, and assorted hand tools. I have a vague memory of building a rocket in 4th grade or so. Lawn darted after not separating at apogee. I also have a snapshot memory of my brother's rocket drifting far, far away after putting too big a motor in it.

When I had shop class in '69 the teacher "Dusty Rhodes" had one major rule, "Only the teacher runs the table saw." He would rough cut the project from our hand drawn plans and then we ran the other machines. It was a bit odd as he did allow us to use a bandsaw which I thought could do "lotsa" damage if one wasn't careful. Kurt

I think that's fair. I'm a lot more nervous around a table saw than a bandsaw.

 

[boatgeek]

Luckily my dad was a mechanical engineer. When I was around 6 or so he could ask "Pass me the 1/2 inch spanner" when he was under a car and I would.

When my daughter was ~3 years old, she asked if she could help pull up tack strip when we were taking out the wall to wall carpeting. So we gave her a small pry bar and let her have at it.

 

[Art Upton]

Honestly it kind of is, with computers no one uses it anymore for anything. So why learn it?

How will you sign for something if you can't read or write Cursive?
Or will every one start using stylish X for a signature?

How are you going to match a Signiture on a ballot as a Poll Worker if you can't read Cursive?

 

[Art Upton]

I think that's fair. I'm a lot more nervous around a table saw than a bandsaw.

I own a Bandsaw, but not a table saw.

 

[Art Upton]

Its all just another Brick in the Wall

Edit: Just what type of "puddin' " is Floyd talking about in the song.
I have had it at Rules on a cobblestone road in London.

 

[mcderek]

How dare the young people not like, do, believe, experience what I did, do? A refrain as old as time!
Yes, there are serious issues involved but much of the discussion has more to do with nostalgia. There are youth building lots of stuff. A big difference is that most of it happens in a structured setting unlike when I was young. Science Olympiad and TARC are good examples.

 

[Azamiryou]

Honestly it kind of is, with computers no one uses it anymore for anything. So why learn it?

Cursive became obsolete when ballpoint pens became widely available, around the end of WW2.

It still helps to be able to read it because a lot of (mostly older) people still write it. It will gradually go away in general use, and become the domain of pen hobbyists and historians.

Most of the reasons people give for why it needs to be taught are bogus:
It's faster: no, it isn't. Whatever way of writing you practice is fastest.
You need it to read historical documents: only if you're a historian. Everyone else can read a transcription. Also, have you ever noticed how hard it is to read historical documents even if you do know cursive?

The real reason for cursive: writing with old* fountain pens and dip pens. The nibs would spatter and make a mess of your writing if you didn't make smooth strokes in the correct directions.

*New materials mean modern fountain pen nibs are much less susceptible. But it still feels really nice to write in cursive with a fountain pen.

 

[Rocket-Fan]

Cursive became obsolete when ballpoint pens became widely available.

It still helps to be able to read it because a lot of (mostly older) people still write it. It will gradually go away in general use, and become the domain of pen hobbyists and historians.

Most of the reasons people give for why it needs to be taught are bogus:
It's faster: no, it isn't. Whatever way of writing you practice is fastest.
You need it to read historical documents: only if you're a historian. Everyone else can read a transcription. Also, have you ever noticed how hard it is to read historical documents even if you do know cursive?

Ever tried to read a Dr's prescription? I don't know how the pharmacists did it before computers.

 

[Alan15578]

How will you sign for something if you can't read or write Cursive?
Or will every one start using stylish X for a signature?

How are you going to match a Signiture on a ballot as a Poll Worker if you can't read Cursive?

That's why I vote in person on election day. When I freed my paper ballot into the scanner and the green light comes on, I have greater confidence that my vote will be properly counted.

 

[dhbarr]

Whenever anybody starts ranting about "Kids these days don't even know how to drive a manual!" I ask them if their car has a manual choke, and if not why aren't they a Real Driver.

 

[tsmmiller]

That's why I vote in person on election day. When I freed my paper ballot into the scanner and the green light comes on, I have greater confidence that my vote will be properly counted.

That only works where in person voting is available.
Washington is vote by mail only.
I wonder how many ballots just get tossed in the trash?

 

[boatgeek]

That only works where in person voting is available.
Washington is vote by mail only.
I wonder how many ballots just get tossed in the trash?

At least in King County, you can watch a livestream of the extraordinarily boring process of votes being counted. Both parties and the (nonpartisan) League of Women Voters have observers on site as well. To answer your question, zero valid ballots get tossed in the trash.

 

[NTP2]

Reading historical documents and writing quickly. I write cursive almost exclusively.

How will you sign for something if you can't read or write Cursive?

1 transcripts or one of my family members is a hustorean so I can ask them

2 I'm waaaay faster with print and even faster on a keyboard

3 my print is distinctive (see messy) so just sign with print

 

[loopy]

How are you going to match a Signiture on a ballot as a Poll Worker if you can't read Cursive?

You don't need to be able to read something to compare it to another sample and see if they match. I can look at words written in Cyrillic or Greek and know if they match another one or not.

 

[les]

Our high school used to have wood, metal, electronics, and auto shops. Also taught drafting classes (old school - manual drawings using T-Bars, triangles, etc). I did all except the wood shop. I especially concentrated on the drafting classes. Too many Hollywood movies had engineers go home and had a drafting table in their den. When I got to college discovered an engineer didn't have to know the difference between a straight edge and a rule. But I feel the training still helped me both in college and in my career. Also found some engineers uncertain which end of a screwdriver to use (which confounded me how they could be so clueless...)

While in the auto class, my friend and I totally tore apart and rebuilt an automatic transmission for his car (took a long time). The shop teacher was somewhat surprised when the transmission worked afterwards....

My friend and I also did various construction and home wiring projects in both of our houses during high school.

Recently went back for a (too high number) reunion and found all the shops closed. Made me a bit sad. But the wood shop was transformed into a computer/robotics shop for some hands on type training.

 

[NTP2]

Our high school used to have wood, metal, electronics, and auto shops. Also taught drafting classes (old school - manual drawings using T-Bars, triangles, etc). I did all except the wood shop. I especially concentrated on the drafting classes. Too many Hollywood movies had engineers go home and had a drafting table in their den. When I got to college discovered an engineer didn't have to know the difference between a straight edge and a rule. But I feel the training still helped me both in college and in my career. Also found some engineers uncertain which end of a screwdriver to use (which confounded me how they could be so clueless...)

While in the auto class, my friend and I totally tore apart and rebuilt an automatic transmission for his car (took a long time). The shop teacher was somewhat surprised when the transmission worked afterwards....

My friend and I also did various construction and home wiring projects in both of our houses during high school.

Recently went back for a (too high number) reunion and found all the shops closed. Made me a bit sad. But the wood shop was transformed into a computer/robotics shop for some hands on type training.

I do CAD and shop classes, I figured that will be useful some day as a engineer.

 

[Art Upton]

Ever tried to read a Dr's prescription? I don't know how the pharmacists did it before computers.

They mostly wrote in a secret shorthand

2 x d

 

[Art Upton]

At least in King County, you can watch a livestream of the extraordinarily boring process of votes being counted. Both parties and the (nonpartisan) League of Women Voters have observers on site as well. To answer your question, zero valid ballots get tossed in the trash.

How do you know? They could get tossed by Post Persons before the counting centers; who by the way have been caught putting mail, mostly bulk mail, in the trash.

 

[boatgeek]

Our high school used to have wood, metal, electronics, and auto shops. Also taught drafting classes (old school - manual drawings using T-Bars, triangles, etc). I did all except the wood shop. I especially concentrated on the drafting classes.

...

Recently went back for a (too high number) reunion and found all the shops closed. Made me a bit sad. But the wood shop was transformed into a computer/robotics shop for some hands on type training.

Our kids' high school had an auto shop class, then it closed down due to low enrollment. They put a wood shop class in that space, then it closed down due to low enrollment. It's hard to get enough students interested in the class to keep it running.

 

[boatgeek]

How do you know? They could get tossed by Post Persons before the counting centers; who by the way have been caught putting mail, mostly bulk mail, in the trash.

Take it to the controversy forum...