I have an Idea

[battle-bob]

Is it possble to put my own satellite up in space? The satelllite would be small like baceball size it would have a camera to look at things and solor powered. So what do u think? Has anyone talked about it? I kown it sounds odd but I would like to do it.

 

[Neil]

Um... It took a huge team of guys to just lob something into space, and it took them 2 or 3 tries IIRC... And very expensive... I too have daydreamed about such things, but unless you have an R7/Sputnik launch vehicle lying around in your back yard, I think it would be just too darn expensive to do.

But, if you did do it, youd need a big team of guys who are good with EX motors, electronics, optimal rocket design, launch trajectories ECT before you could even seriously consider it.

If you do do this... where do I send my application?

 

[Neil]

I would also like to see if we can get you an award for "most interesting first post"

Welcome to the boards!

 

[battle-bob]

Well gitting it up there would be hard I dont know muck about EX motors and it would take time to get it all ready. But I dont think it would be to expensive and electronics would be some what of a mess to work out. Satellite expensive becuse there big and need to do alot to offset there price. So one that is small and has just a camera on it would be cheap and esay to make. so the hard parts would be geting it up there and keeping it up there.

 

[battle-bob]

Originally posted by Neil
I would also like to see if we can get you an award for "most interesting first post"

Welcome to the boards!

Thanks Neil

 

[Neil]

You might do well to email the Go-Fast team and ask how much they spent on thier booster, and maybe get some of thier plans/advice, or even see if theyd like to help with the project... They are proabably the people with the most knowlege of shootin' stuff into space... I dont think any amature has ever shot something into orbit on thier own booster.

I heard a rumor about a $50,000 X-Prize kinda thing for shooting people into orbit, but i'm not sure if its true...???

 

[wwattles]

There was a thread about a month or so ago about an enormous motor that could be custom made by one of the vendors, and we were discussing how much it would take to put something into orbit. Before the thread got into inappropriate territory, there had been enough discussion to figuratively shoot down any chance of putting a satellite into a stable orbit without a large team of folks, a lot of money, and a lot of other resources and educated brainpower.

Could it be done? Of course. Will it be done? I'm sure, someday, it will. Should it be done? Opinions vary. Will it be a simple matter of building a satellite, putting it on a powerful rocket, and launching it? Absolutely not.

WW

 

[shrox]

See my avatar over there to the left? That is the RoMax, my SSTO design.

 

[Neil]

Yes, I definetly agree. No way you can do it without a big team. I know nothing of sattelites or EX motors, so dont count me as much of an asset to a sattelite team... I'm only good with the stuff that flys a little closer to the ground... For now. *evil grin*



As for the money... Anyone here know Bill Gate's Email adress?

 

[Neil]

Originally posted by shrox
See my avatar over there to the left? That is the RoMax, my SSTO design.

Have you flown that small version yet? Hope I didnt miss the thread...

SSTO sounds a little dangerous to me, if its a conventional rocket (which the RoMax isnt, so its a moot point for you), wouldent you be better off with two or three stages?

 

[bjmcder]

Think you can get a satellite into orbit as an amateur operating out of pocket? Forget it. Not only must you get into space, you must also get up to a speed of 18,000 miles per hour. Why do you think orbital rockets are so big? They need so much fuel to get up to speed, that it would be impractical for anybody other than a well funded company to construct such a device.

That is not to say it is impossible, I do believe that an independent group will make an orbital flight eventually, but you will need a whole team of engineers in specialized fields, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. You are no longer an amateur at this point.

 

[Ryan S.]

Originally posted by battle-bob
Well gitting it up there would be hard I dont know muck about EX motors and it would take time to get it all ready. But I dont think it would be to expensive and electronics would be some what of a mess to work out. Satellite expensive becuse there big and need to do alot to offset there price. So one that is small and has just a camera on it would be cheap and esay to make. so the hard parts would be geting it up there and keeping it up there.

To get a satellite into space and into orbit (lets say yours weighs 5 lbs) you are going to need upwards of $1,000,000. Lets think about this.

You need to remember, you need to get your rocket INTO space, and then INTO orbit.

So you are going to need a machine shop, lathe, all that good stuff there is an easy 50K

Now you are going to need the chemicals to do alot of big motors there is another 50K

vehicle costs, cost of permits, cost of launch tower, cost of recovery efforts, cost of the stuff you destroy when you blow up EX motors,

you need a huge rocket to do this, because you need to get it up there and then get it into orbit.


think of it this way, if it were cheap and easy, people would be doing it all the time, and there are alot of people out there who know a ton about EX and electronics.

 

[Ryan S.]

by the way what is the point of putting a camera in there, you are going to need to put huge transmission equitment in there, or get it back, which is going to make it therefore bigger, and then you need a bigger rocket, which means more money

 

[wwattles]

Okay, now that we've all taken our shots at the new guy...

Let's take a step back and welcome him. You and your ideas are welcome here, battle-bob, and we don't normally act like attack dogs. We do, however, get a little skittish about folks who have grand ideas (and yours is about as grand as they come) right off the bat. (We've had a few brushes a while back with some nefarious sorts looking for info on how to build rockets for intentionally deadly purposes.)

So Bob, welcome to TRF!

WW

 

[battle-bob]

Originally posted by wwattles
Okay, now that we've all taken our shots at the new guy...

Let's take a step back and welcome him. You and your ideas are welcome here, battle-bob, and we don't normally act like attack dogs. We do, however, get a little skittish about folks who have grand ideas (and yours is about as grand as they come) right off the bat. (We've had a few brushes a while back with some nefarious sorts looking for info on how to build rockets for intentionally deadly purposes.)

So Bob, welcome to TRF!

WW

Thanks wwattles
Well its just an idae and the camera is the point of doing it. And I know its going to be difficult but went i learn more about big fast rocket ambey build one that gos high ill try with alot of work and some luck that is.

 

[r1dermon]

assuming you can get your "satelite" up there, and to orbital velocity, how will you stabalise it? what if it starts spinning? then you have no control over it. so you put some compressed air thrusters on it...what happens when the compressed air is all gone? how will you dock with it to resupply? how will it be powered? solar? you'd need some big panels, or you'd need a battery that could hold a charge in the extreme cold of space. my personal suggestion is...you can get 100,000 times better pictures of space, if you spend 16 grand on a meade 16" reflecting telescope. thats a lot cheaper than even the booster motor for your project. hey, this might make a cool lpr kit though. a 24mm that busts a pod(satelite) off at apogee. muhahaha. have fun, welcome to the forum.

 

[shrox]

I still think using a propellor or rotor for the first few miles offers a great effiency. Even adding just 100mph before igniting the rocket motors could cut down the weight and rocket fuel required of the craft.

This diagram is of the RMX-1 flightpath, I just gotta get my life back on track and get working on it again.

 

[Neil]

As I said, I know nothing about orbital stuff...

So... Anyone got an R7 lying around?

I wonder if they still have that Redstone on Ebay... We could all pitch in!


Heres an idea... You shoot a rocket into space... Maybe twice as big as Go-Fast team's rocket, but not aiming for orbit. You have a spring-loaded dart vehicle with a clear nosecone with a camera in it... It goes up, arcs over, takes pictures, and somehow (dont ask me, I only scored "slightly nerdy" on that test...) send the video feed back here. Sure, you loose your rocket and camera, but if you could get it to take pictures and send em back here... Wouldent that be cool???

I wonder how much that would cost... More than I want to think about, i'm sure, and more than I (or almost anyone else here) knows how to do, but it makes an interesting idea...

 

[FLRockets]

Originally posted by r1dermon
assuming you can get your "satelite" up there, and to orbital velocity, how will you stabalise it? what if it starts spinning? then you have no control over it. so you put some compressed air thrusters on it...what happens when the compressed air is all gone? how will you dock with it to resupply? how will it be powered? solar? you'd need some big panels, or you'd need a battery that could hold a charge in the extreme cold of space.

Well, he did say he'd need some luck.

 

[thomasrau]

Originally posted by wwattles

Could it be done? Of course. Will it be done? I'm sure, someday, it will. Should it be done? Opinions vary. Will it be a simple matter of building a satellite, putting it on a powerful rocket, and launching it? Absolutely not.

WW

Actually the biggest problem is a guidance system. Orbital trajectories are complicated things. Phase one is basically straight up, in order to get out of the dense atmosphere as quickly as possible. Phase two requires "tipping over" in order to build up velocity, as others have said you need to get up to 17,500mph give or take a bit. You'll want to take advantage of the earths rotation in order to gain some "free" velocity so you'll want to go eastward. Phase three is a little "cheat" that many launches use, once high enough point back towards the ground, using gravity to assist. After all its easier to accelerate going "down hill". Phase four (the hardest) is to circularize and raise your orbit, your initial orbit will be very eccentric and short lived.
I have no doubt it will be done, it just will not be easy or cheap.

 

[Mike]

Hey Battle-Bob, welcome to the world of rocketry!

Whilst going to orbit isn't very practical its pretty simple to get photos or even video from lower altitudes. With some experience, money and few bits of paperwork lots of people have sent rockets several miles high...sure you can't see the curve of the earth but photos and video from 20k ft are still pretty cool!

Theres loads of fun to be had still within the confounds of earth.

 

[Neil]

How far up would you have to go to get a decent picture of the earths curve? I'm not considering trying, but with that boosted camera-dart thing on top of a rocket like teh Go-Fast team did... Could you get pictures like that with a design like that?

I also wonder if it would be possible to use a clear sphere (say THAT 10 times fast!) instead a dart, mabe 8-10" diameter, with 4-8 cameras pointing in different directions, to get more pictures...

 

[scottrc]

Welcome and and best wishes Battlebob. If you do ever do something like this, make sure you can at least get ESPN or the Discovery Channel from it. And if you ever need a payload, my neighborhood has this little pesky dog.

 

[battle-bob]

Originally posted by r1dermon
assuming you can get your "satelite" up there, and to orbital velocity, how will you stabalise it? what if it starts spinning? then you have no control over it. so you put some compressed air thrusters on it...what happens when the compressed air is all gone? Something like that.

how will you dock with it to resupply? I have been think about it id have to use a reuesable ship or something like that.

how will it be powered? solar? you'd need some big panels. You wouldnt need very big ones and i dont think i would need a battery just ues the panels.

hey, this might make a cool lpr kit though. a 24mm that busts a pod(satelite) off at apogee. muhahaha. have fun, welcome to the forum.

thats what im looking at a pod on top of the rocket. And what is apogee??

 

[battle-bob]

like the rocket pod idea that the part that would stay up there mabe, but i dont know
compressed air thrusters for some control or something like it would be needed.

 

[daveyfire]

SpaceX is doing a privately-funded orbital launch, sometime soon. We toured their facility in El Segundo a year ago, and the husband a person who works at my school is employed at SpaceX, so I get constant updates.

Our pictures of the SpaceX facility are at https://www.smes.org/rocketclub/spacex_trip.htm

And the official SpaceX website is at https://www.spacex.com/

They're doing this with a lot of money (the guy who founded the company, Elon Musk, also founded and sold off PayPal) and lots of technical support. Great, great company.

 

[shrox]

Originally posted by battle-bob
thats what im looking at a pod on top of the rocket. And what is apogee??

Apogee is the peak of flight for a rocket in an sub-orbital or orbital trip around a body in space. The farthest the rocket gets from the Earth.

Apogee is also the name of a great model rocket company. They have a good newsletter about model rocketry and plenty of info about rocketry on the website, all for free.

https://www.apogeerockets.com

 

[daveyfire]

Originally posted by Neil
How far up would you have to go to get a decent picture of the earths curve?

I'm not sure of the exact altitude, but the OuR project of 1997 had an on-board transmitting video camera. They guessed it went about 94,000 feet, and one of the most memorable moments is their ATV operator screaming out, "You can see the curvature of the earth!" Really awesome stuff.

The on-board footage is on Earl Cagle's excellent coverage of the event on his BALLS 006 tape.

 

[Neil]

Originally posted by daveyfire
I'm not sure of the exact altitude, but the OuR project of 1997 had an on-board transmitting video camera. They guessed it went about 94,000 feet, and one of the most memorable moments is their ATV operator screaming out, "You can see the curvature of the earth!" Really awesome stuff.

The on-board footage is on Earl Cagle's excellent coverage of the event on his BALLS 006 tape.

Is that tape for sale? If so, where do I buy it?