I am switching to Titebond II

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dford

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Has anyone tried adding wood dust from sanded balsa to thicken a glue for LPR fillet asthetics? Really the fillet in LPR seems more for appearance. If all are looking for strength and asthetics it seems epoxy is obvious but not really "intended" for wood use as in the afore mentioned glues. Thus "papering" a fillet in with wood glue gives strength with intended adhesive. The only draw back is sanding down the very thin paper edge or putty it smooth.
In my opinion the idea of a fillet within the LPR range is overkill, unless for appearance.
I still wonder about the dust idea.
 

neil_w

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Might work, but not sure why that would be necessary. Choose an appropriate thick glue (i.e. TB NRND) and you're good to go. Although it usually takes me a couple of layers to get to the level I want, I usually get (IMHO) very nice fillets with very little effort. In addition to looking nice, I do believe that filleting with a wood glue (any kind) adds significant and worthwhile strength to LPR builds. Aerodynamics are the one aspect I don't care about on these rockets, most of which are unaerodynamic and draggy to begin with.
 

swatkat

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I use the Titebond M and T. It's really thick and doesn't shrink much. Also, it doesn't run.
 

Gary Byrum

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I also like using the Titebond Translucent.

For fillets, I have gone to Harbor Freight Wood Glue. It works just like the No Run, No Drip/Molding and Trim glue, but is a heck of a lot easier to find.

To reduce the pucker factor on the motor mount-to-body tube joint, I use Elmer's Glue-All. I've found it shrinks less than the wood glues and isn't near as grabby.
+1-- I just bought a bottle of that based on your posting, and tried it out last night. I must say, it's really thick. I had to leave it upside down just to get glue to the squirt tip. No runs or drips and no pits, and it looked as if it dried a little clear. 1 application was like using 3-4 of any other glue I've used in the past. For now, I am sold on this idea for fillets. Don't know how strong this stuff is, but it's my go-to fillet glue anymore. Thanks.
 

byoungblood

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After having a couple of body tubes coke bottle from wood glue, I just use epoxy to install motor mounts on everything I build.

I use the no drip, no run glue for LPR and MPR fillets, though I did use epoxy fillets on my Cosmic Interceptor because I absolutely did not want that rocket popping a fin!
 

Rockyt

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I can't speak for motor mounts, as I haven't had many issues, but I use Elmer's carpenter's glue for my fillets. They almost always bubble and shrink. I let it dry and then run a small bead of CWF over it. It doesn't add too much weight, and most LPR Fillets are for aesthetics anyway. Besides, at the field I usually fly at, less altitude means less chance of drifting into a neighbors yard.
 

AlfaBrewer

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+1-- I just bought a bottle of that based on your posting, and tried it out last night. I must say, it's really thick. I had to leave it upside down just to get glue to the squirt tip. No runs or drips and no pits, and it looked as if it dried a little clear. 1 application was like using 3-4 of any other glue I've used in the past. For now, I am sold on this idea for fillets. Don't know how strong this stuff is, but it's my go-to fillet glue anymore. Thanks.
I haven't tried it yet for anything other than fillets, but I'm curious about the strength of it as well. Looks like I need to build something and flog it to see how well it holds up.
 

Gary Byrum

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I haven't tried it yet for anything other than fillets, but I'm curious about the strength of it as well. Looks like I need to build something and flog it to see how well it holds up.
OK, so after I used this glue on a couple of new builds (fillets only) did all my follow-up applications to said rockets, came time to start sanding the F&F off. And right off the bat, I noticed something that didn't agree with me. Granted, it went on smooth, there were no bubbles and I really didn't see any shrinkage. What I did notice, was how this stuff dries to a silicon or a rubbery consistency. I'm not so sure I like that very well. Does it do this to you also? My sanding sticks, papers and other misc sanding tools, kept digging into it. Hopefully will not affect the holding strength. I haven't sheared a fin in over 40 years and I don't wanna start now. I suppose, for a model glue, it might fare OK, but I'd be hard pressed to use it on any other permanent fix. Chairs, book shelves or other wood project that would be subject to support something even moderately heavy. What I really don't understand, is how this stuff is considered a "glue". I'll continue to use the Titebond like I've been doing.
 

neil_w

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I noticed recently that my local Ace Hardware has the new Titebond "Quick and Thick", which is basically a clear version of the No Run/No Drip (or Molding and Trim Glue). Dunno if they'll all have it, but if so it sure makes the stuff easy to find compared to the No Run No Drip, which I think I eventually had to order from Amazon at an obnoxiously high price.

I don't see it on their web site, though, which is not promising.
 

AlfaBrewer

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OK, so after I used this glue on a couple of new builds (fillets only) did all my follow-up applications to said rockets, came time to start sanding the F&F off. And right off the bat, I noticed something that didn't agree with me. Granted, it went on smooth, there were no bubbles and I really didn't see any shrinkage. What I did notice, was how this stuff dries to a silicon or a rubbery consistency. I'm not so sure I like that very well. Does it do this to you also? My sanding sticks, papers and other misc sanding tools, kept digging into it. Hopefully will not affect the holding strength. I haven't sheared a fin in over 40 years and I don't wanna start now. I suppose, for a model glue, it might fare OK, but I'd be hard pressed to use it on any other permanent fix. Chairs, book shelves or other wood project that would be subject to support something even moderately heavy. What I really don't understand, is how this stuff is considered a "glue". I'll continue to use the Titebond like I've been doing.
I don't recall having that issue. I'll pay particular attention to this the next time I use it.

I've built a couple of rockets recently using only the HFT wood glue, and so far, everything has gone as expected. It seems like a REALLY thick white glue. I've been able to reposition, twist, whatever parts long after TB would have grabbed (of course, long is relative). Plus, I didn't notice any coke-bottling when I used it for motor mounts.
 

Gary Byrum

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I'm going to assume, that any of us getting bubbles or pits in our fillets, are doing the same wrong thing.
We apply a stream of glue in the corner of the fin root. We take our finger and use 1 - multiple swipes down that glue stream and force it into the root corner. We will most likely do this again and again, (at some point ) and, or however many times you choose to reapply and swipe it, until we are satisfied that we got a good fillet. But we somehow, are still getting those nasty pits or bubbles.

First off, the pits are coming from bubbles that have popped and dried a little. Why, you ask, are we getting bubbles in the first place? This question haunted me for years and still, I applied the fillets the same habitual way I've always done, hoping for a better outcome.

NOW....forget what you know and exercise that forbidden territory called COMMON SENSE! Take no offense, because I too, should have already figured this out. This past week I have added 1 simple step to my fillet applications and I am no longer getting these dreadful, hateful little pits & bubbles.

1( Run your first stream on the root like you have always done, and give the fillet a swipe. Make sure to leave enough glue on there for step #2.

2( Take a tooth pic or pointed dowel (not too excessively sharp) and start tapping and spreading that stream on into the corner, making sure you have it thoroughly coated. Add a little more if it looks too shallow. Just as long as you have all of that air out of the way. Make another stream of glue and swipe with your finger a couple of times or until you get that desired fillet look you want on the first application. After this dries, repeat as many time as you feel necessary.

Here's what went wrong for us. On our 1st swipe, we were making those bubbles. And they weren't going to go away with repeated apps and swipes. You have to make sure you get the glue all the way inside the joint area. Our fingers just weren't doing the job.

Sounds a little to simple doesn't it. Once you try this and see how well it works, you'll be searching that brick wall used to bang your head against.
 

tomsteve

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one suggestion with glues is to shake them up from time to time. the resins can sink to the bottom of the bottle.
 

Back_at_it

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I use TBII for the structural bond as it's thinner and can soak into the materials. For ascetics I use Thick and Quick. I can normally get real nice fillets with little to no bubbles using this method. If there are any I go straight to automotive spot putty.
 

brockrwood

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I use TBII for the structural bond as it's thinner and can soak into the materials. For ascetics I use Thick and Quick. I can normally get real nice fillets with little to no bubbles using this method. If there are any I go straight to automotive spot putty.
I was using just regular “original” Titebond for a recent, scratch built LPR rocket. Worked fine EXCEPT that the “fast tack” was a little TOO fast for a tube coupler and for the motor mount. When I got the tube coupler pushed in about 2/3 of the length it needed to go, it seized up, refusing to go forward or backward. I just had to live with it. When I pushed in the motor mount, it also seized up and refused to move. Luckily, it seized up RiGHT in the correct position. I think I will try Titebond III (which seems to be less tacky than II or I), or just regular, old Elmer’s Glue All for the interior parts that need some fiddling to get them into position.
 

neil_w

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I was using just regular “original” Titebond for a recent, scratch built LPR rocket. Worked fine EXCEPT that the “fast tack” was a little TOO fast for a tube coupler and for the motor mount. When I got the tube coupler pushed in about 2/3 of the length it needed to go, it seized up, refusing to go forward or backward. I just had to live with it. When I pushed in the motor mount, it also seized up and refused to move. Luckily, it seized up RiGHT in the correct position. I think I will try Titebond III (which seems to be less tacky than II or I), or just regular, old Elmer’s Glue All for the interior parts that need some fiddling to get them into position.
LPR wood/paper glue regimen: Glue-all or epoxy for motor mounts and couplers. Lately I tend to lean on epoxy for motor mounts because it has better heat resistance. Some flavor of wood glue (I favor TBII) for all other attachments. TB Quick and Thick for fillets.
 

brockrwood

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Maybe I am obsessing too much over this… just glue the thing together, Brock! Still, when I have worked hard and carefully to do a good job, I don’t want a “glue set up too fast” problem to stop me in my tracks and make have to throw away hours of work.
 

samb

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... If you are set on using a wood glue for rocket building, I'd for sure recommend sticking with Elmer's Carpenters glue for any interior gluing. Elmer's Glue-All or plain old White School Glue for everything outside, Fin's, Launch lugs, fillets and such.
Just curious. Why white “glue all” type glue for the outside stuff like fins and yellow wood glue for interior stuff like motor mounts?

Our friend Micromeister "left the building" a few years back. He was a great contributor to this hobby and is missed. I don't know why he liked white glue outside and yellow inside.

p.s. Yes, you are obsessing about glue, an affliction many of us share. :) Just do it !
 
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heada

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I like using yellow glue for structural parts because its thicker and runs less but still thin enough to penetrate into the layers of paper/balsa. White glue is better for thinner layering like you do on fillets. You can use quick&thick for fillets but I normally use 3 or 4 layers of white glue.

Epoxy in LPR is not needed and is way to heavy. Test fit couplers before glueing them in. If they're snug, sand it down until it slides free. Then you won't get a stuck coupler from a fast glue grab.
 

Lee

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I use TB II, III and Q&T - each has pros & cons.
III is strongest and runny - a good penetrator.
II is all purpose.
Q&T for fillets. My go to tool for shaping fillets is a Fondant tool. I get such a smooth finish I don't find sanding necessary.

1627597572322.png
 

brockrwood

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Our friend Micromeister "left the building" a few years back. He was a great contributor to this hobby and is missed. I don't know why he liked white glue outside and yellow inside.

p.s. Yes, you are obsessing about glue, an affliction many of us share. :) Just do it !
Fin drying rack for fins slathered in Elmer’s wood filler. See attachment. I am told the wood filler should be the consistency of “thick toothpaste”. Thick toothpaste? Isn’t toothpaste already thick? I am beginning to understand that you can get lots of valuable tips amd tricks from veteran modelers but there is no substitute for just building lots of model rockets and getting a feel for what works and what doesn’t through experience.
 

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neil_w

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I am told the wood filler should be the consistency of “thick toothpaste”.
I would say it's more akin to mustard. It should flow a little, but not too much.
there is no substitute for just building lots of model rockets and getting a feel for what works and what doesn’t through experience.
True in general, *especially* true in this case.
 

rklapp

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Fin drying rack for fins slathered in Elmer’s wood filler. See attachment. I am told the wood filler should be the consistency of “thick toothpaste”. Thick toothpaste? Isn’t toothpaste already thick? I am beginning to understand that you can get lots of valuable tips amd tricks from veteran modelers but there is no substitute for just building lots of model rockets and getting a feel for what works and what doesn’t through experience.
Not if you buy your toothpaste from the dollar store…

I think Tim from Apogee calls it toothpaste consistency. Dave Thomas may have also said mustard.

I recently tried Plastic Wood but didn’t like it for fillets. I’ll stick with Quick&Thick for now.
 

icyclops

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Haven’t you ever noticed that using white glue on the inside with glueing motor mounts or couplers sucks the body tube inwards around the glue joint and actually can make a ring when it dries. This is because white glue has much more moisture which can suck in or warp the BT upon drying. Carpenters glue/wood glue does not do that ( or not as bad) as it has less water and formulated differently. I learned that lesson the hard way :)
 

brockrwood

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Haven’t you ever noticed that using white glue on the inside with glueing motor mounts or couplers sucks the body tube inwards around the glue joint and actually can make a ring when it dries. This is because white glue has much more moisture which can suck in or warp the BT upon drying. Carpenters glue/wood glue does not do that ( or not as bad) as it has less water and formulated differently. I learned that lesson the hard way :)
Seems like Titebond III might be the way to go. It is a carpenter's wood glue but has a slightly longer working time compared to Titebond I and II. Maybe it will not "seize up" on me the way Titebond I does while still not "sucking in the tube". Will try on the Custom Rockets Apache I am building.
 

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