Hybrids 2022

kramer714

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Just to put a plug in for Tom and Contrail, been flying ontrail for 10 years or so. It is the most reliable hybrid, push the button, it flies that simple. Plus Tom is great to work with, very enthusiastic and working on new / better stuff.
I haven't tried the 'new stuff' yet, maybe at LDRS in California this summer...
 

DRAGON64

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In the 2019 Hybrids thread you told me about Krytox 205, but I only realized that when I went and found that reference.
Gotcha, thanks for that. I was quoting what I had on hand, which I no longer have on hand... In a search, multiple flavors cropped up; so 205 it is.
 

DRAGON64

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I landed at McMaster-Carr and picked up a 2oz tube of 205. It was not cheap, but for a 2oz offering it was the cheapest I found. I should be good to go for a while.
 

RalfB

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Hi,

my contrail casing has found a new home.
I had to dispose of an old spruce chest of drawers and converted it into a range box.

April 9th, 2022 is hybrid test day on the Red Jane in Germany.:clapping:
 

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Neutron95

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At the SARA launch last weekend, there was a set of hybrid hardware looking for a home, and I made an impulse adoption.

I'm now the proud owner of a decent amount of Contrail 38mm hardware, and a decent amount of GSE that will need a bit of work. I also have a bunch of questions that I need to get answers to.

  1. Are the throat sizes for Contrail nozzles posted anywhere? I have 3 different nozzles, but I don't know what size each one is.
  2. Can the 38mm motors be internally vented? An earlier post in the thread seemed to suggest that was now an option, or at least in the works, but I don't see anything on the Contrail site.
  3. What's the certification status of the CNVA motors? The extra impulse looks very attractive, but I don't know if that would be something that could be flown at ROC, or if I'll need to go up to FAR to fly them.
 

samtc

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I just went through all of the 2021 thread, but after going to see how much the hardware cost there is no way that a person living on fixed income can afford the hardware o_O Wow that is super expensive. M motor launch for $130 or so is attractive, just can't afford to get started.🤬 It's not a problem at all like most things in life, you just need lots of money to play hard with the big boys.

Hey Marty,

I would be happy to loan you the hardware for a flight. We have the GSE and our Treasurer is a Hypertek Dealer. Get your Level 1 and I'll help you get your level 2 on a Hybrid. We fly near Shaw AFB in Sumter, SC so it will not be a killer drive.
 

samtc

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Hi guys I am leading a first time university rocketry team from Singapore and we are looking at buying a HyperTEK M1000 4630cc Motor to be used in the Spaceport America Cup. Unfortunately, like a poster has mentioned we can't find suppliers for the GSE for M Class HyperTEK hybrids. We are currently brainstorming concepts for the GSE and scrounging for components.

Based on the old HypterTEK manuals, the team came up with a P*I diagram for the GSE.


View attachment 501684

Does anyone have experience with designing GSEs for HyperTEK M Motors? Any feedback on our design would be great!

Oh and if anyone has the old GSE for the motor we would be happy to purchase them!

Get in touch with me. We have several Hypertek flyers and have strayed a long way from the original GSE
 

Sandy H.

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Get in touch with me. We have several Hypertek flyers and have strayed a long way from the original GSE

Are you going to be at NSL? I have only seen Johnny fly hybrids, but I miss a lot of the launches.

I would like to build and fly an L2 hybrid more than ever trying to get my L3, so I'm interested in learning more about the 'smaller' options. If you're going to be at NSL, then maybe we can talk a bit about how I could move forward on that goal.

Sandy.
 

hobie1dog

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Are you going to be at NSL? I have only seen Johnny fly hybrids, but I miss a lot of the launches.

I would like to build and fly an L2 hybrid more than ever trying to get my L3, so I'm interested in learning more about the 'smaller' options. If you're going to be at NSL, then maybe we can talk a bit about how I could move forward on that goal.
Sandy: I sent him a PM last night asking him that same thing.:)
 

G_T

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I'm looking to see if perhaps I can fly THRP-1 at Potter. It's been collecting dust for too long!
 

ContrailRockets

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Tom Sanders Owner of Contrail Rockets Level 3 Flight using a 98mm M-1575 Black Gold Hybrid Motor.​

This is my Level 3 flight using a hybrid 98mm Contrail Rockets M-1575BG. Winds were at about 14mph. The flight got a nice kick off the pad this is a hybrid motor that has over 600 pounds of initial thrust off the pad. This flight used another innovation, not only was a "vent detector" used, it used the newly designed "on pad hold system". This allowed the motor to be filled at the pad and when the filling stopped so did the venting. This innovation allows for holds due to aircraft or any other events as in a "break in the breeze" that would normally require either a refilling of the motor for any vented NOS or worse case purging the NOS to then again refill the motor. This addition has not only a solenoid valve on the vent but an "expansion chamber" at the fill solenoid valve. Since Contrail Rockets motors have minimal utilage in the motor, any expansion in the hold process could elevate pressures, the expansion chamber coupled with the vent solenoid hold the rocket ready to launch. In this flight the hold time was about five minutes. As long as no one approaches the rocket hold times could be extent well beyond the five minutes seen here. The purge solenoid is not effected by this additional device and no additional control circuits are needed as the fill circuit also operates the on pad hold device. This saves NOS and allows motors to be prefilled at the pad and then put into a hold status awaiting the launch command.

Many thanks to my L3 TAP's at Phoenix Tripoli who understood the delays over the past few years in getting this flight into the air. I also want to thank my Club for creating a hybrid friendly environment. With a 48K waiver in the Arizona desert launching on Saturday and Sunday allows time for flyers to do more than just launch rockets.

I also want to thank my customers who ask for innovations. The internal vent lead to the vent detector which lead to the on pad hold system which lead to the expansion chamber. Each of these innovations was because of a customers request. They directly or indirectly started the wheels of innovation. At Contrail Rockets we continue to make improvements in what we offer customers to enhance the hybrid flying experience.

This flight with 5300cc of NOS or just under 9 pounds at $4 a pound plus the NOS used in filling about 1.5 pounds for a cost of $42. The M-1575BG fuel grain is $259 plus any shipping or tax available at www.ContrailRockets.com.

This grain is shipped worldwide without any HazMat fees.

For any questions please email me at [email protected]
 

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G_T

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Anybody else planning on flying a hybrid at URRF?
 

DRAGON64

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I am hoping to team up with another forum member on here, who also lives local to me, and try to get some hybrid projects off the ground (pun intended). Starting off, since I have the GSE, we noted the one; 500ft of Cat5 cable is not robust enough for GSE, and two, is a pain in the butt to deploy and coild back up. Add to that, I have the M`575 from Contrail, and so we will be looking at 1000ft minimums for M-class flights at our club. Currently my friend is evaluating converting the GSE to wireless. Also, he is looking at simplifying the power source to use 3S Lipo batteries etc. More to come as we get better prepared to mitigate any possible GSE failures and upcoming launches.
 

DRAGON64

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Tom Sanders Owner of Contrail Rockets Level 3 Flight using a 98mm M-1575 Black Gold Hybrid Motor.​

This is my Level 3 flight using a hybrid 98mm Contrail Rockets M-1575BG. Winds were at about 14mph. The flight got a nice kick off the pad this is a hybrid motor that has over 600 pounds of initial thrust off the pad. This flight used another innovation, not only was a "vent detector" used, it used the newly designed "on pad hold system". This allowed the motor to be filled at the pad and when the filling stopped so did the venting. This innovation allows for holds due to aircraft or any other events as in a "break in the breeze" that would normally require either a refilling of the motor for any vented NOS or worse case purging the NOS to then again refill the motor. This addition has not only a solenoid valve on the vent but an "expansion chamber" at the fill solenoid valve. Since Contrail Rockets motors have minimal utilage in the motor, any expansion in the hold process could elevate pressures, the expansion chamber coupled with the vent solenoid hold the rocket ready to launch. In this flight the hold time was about five minutes. As long as no one approaches the rocket hold times could be extent well beyond the five minutes seen here. The purge solenoid is not effected by this additional device and no additional control circuits are needed as the fill circuit also operates the on pad hold device. This saves NOS and allows motors to be prefilled at the pad and then put into a hold status awaiting the launch command.

Many thanks to my L3 TAP's at Phoenix Tripoli who understood the delays over the past few years in getting this flight into the air. I also want to thank my Club for creating a hybrid friendly environment. With a 48K waiver in the Arizona desert launching on Saturday and Sunday allows time for flyers to do more than just launch rockets.

I also want to thank my customers who ask for innovations. The internal vent lead to the vent detector which lead to the on pad hold system which lead to the expansion chamber. Each of these innovations was because of a customers request. They directly or indirectly started the wheels of innovation. At Contrail Rockets we continue to make improvements in what we offer customers to enhance the hybrid flying experience.

This flight with 5300cc of NOS or just under 9 pounds at $4 a pound plus the NOS used in filling about 1.5 pounds for a cost of $42. The M-1575BG fuel grain is $259 plus any shipping or tax available at www.ContrailRockets.com.

This grain is shipped worldwide without any HazMat fees.

For any questions please email me at [email protected]
That was an awesome video Tom, what was the specifgics on the rocket? Size and weight etc(?)
 

ContrailRockets

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147.5 Long 4.08 Diameter fiberglass over cardboard tube. Fins and Altimeter Bay were hand laid up from Carbon Fiber.
30 Pounds with motor and reload. At pad added 8.7 pounds of NOS.
Two Stratologger Altimeters and Featherweight Tracker
 

DRAGON64

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Wow! That is a light weight flight assembly. What was apogee of your flight? My rocket components alone weigh 29lbs. I expect flight ready will be in the 70+ lb range at the pad.
 

G_T

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I'm working on building the rocket to fly THRP-1 at URRF. THRP-1 is Tiny Hybrid Rocket Project 1, a 3" diameter M motor using chilled nitrous, three impinging injectors, and a high turbulence fuel.

There is an extensive thread about the motor in the research section. I'll create a thread later about the rocket in the High Power section.

I'd intended to fly it a couple years back, but Covid...

Fuel is poured, 4 fin Mike Fisher fincan is installed on combustion chamber, flight tank with regulator is prepped. Currently working on the forward retention assembly.

Need to pick up nitrous tank, assemble and test the electronics bay, make the preheater, and test the GSE. All electronics (RRC3, first gen Raven, Featherweight Tracker) is going into the nosecone using an extended coupler. Deployment is CO2 (Peregrine) and tether (TD-2) with d-bag.

If I have time and space, THRP-1 might get a camera. It was going to have an external one, but it made such a bulge on the 3" rocket that I figured it wouldn't go straight once it got near and above mach. It's not worth risking trajectory and stability for video. Paint is purely optional! I want flight data! Looking at about 15Kft if everything works right.

Gerald

PS - Expecting to be about 28# on the pad, and it's a baby M. 250# initial thrust.
 
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G_T

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Dumb question time!

In the next few days I plan to pick up a tank of nitrous. I'll be sizing it for M (this year's EX motor) and possibly N motors (next year's EX motor, THRP-2), filling at the pad. I've been using a club member's tank in the past, but that was now a few years ago! I need to get my own.

Suggestions on what to ask for? Siphon tube, any size specs? Orifice? Valve? If it is suitable for larger Contrail motors it will be suitable for what I'm doing.

I'm guessing a top cover and wheels would be useful as well.

Suggestions and thoughts appreciated! I haven't looked at this in years.

Thanks,
Gerald
 

DRAGON64

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"K" cylinder, 660 valve, yes on the syphon tube (helps if you do not wish to flip the heav y tank at every launch). I have a 20lb tank, but will need to invest in s K-cylinder myself, as Tom shows a couple posts up, the 98mm M's use 8.5+ lbs of nitrous.
 

ContrailRockets

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K are normally steel and are filled on an exchange. They hold 56 pounds of NOS the empty weight is about 150+ pounds. My cylinders are aluminum and hold 50 pound of NOS all cylinders have 3/8 dip tubes these only weight 52 pounds empty. Makes moving a lot easier.
DOT regulation says under 1000 pounds maximum for contents and cylinders.
Steel 206 x 4 824 total and 224 pounds NOS
Aluminum 102 x 9 918 total and 450 pounds NOS.
DOT considers vehicle and trailer to calculate the under 1000 pounds. Over 1000 pounds requires hazard placards insurance and CDL for hazmat transportation.
 

Dave A

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Dumb question time!

In the next few days I plan to pick up a tank of nitrous. I'll be sizing it for M (this year's EX motor) and possibly N motors (next year's EX motor, THRP-2), filling at the pad. I've been using a club member's tank in the past, but that was now a few years ago! I need to get my own.

Suggestions on what to ask for? Siphon tube, any size specs? Orifice? Valve? If it is suitable for larger Contrail motors it will be suitable for what I'm doing.

I'm guessing a top cover and wheels would be useful as well.

Suggestions and thoughts appreciated! I haven't looked at this in years.

Thanks,
Gerald
Pickup a 20lb NOS bottle on a race site or from a distributor. Some have dip tubes and high-flow valves.
Dumb question time!

In the next few days I plan to pick up a tank of nitrous. I'll be sizing it for M (this year's EX motor) and possibly N motors (next year's EX motor, THRP-2), filling at the pad. I've been using a club member's tank in the past, but that was now a few years ago! I need to get my own.

Suggestions on what to ask for? Siphon tube, any size specs? Orifice? Valve? If it is suitable for larger Contrail motors it will be suitable for what I'm doing.

I'm guessing a top cover and wheels would be useful as well.

Suggestions and thoughts appreciated! I haven't looked at this in years.

Thanks,
Gerald

Dumb question time!

In the next few days I plan to pick up a tank of nitrous. I'll be sizing it for M (this year's EX motor) and possibly N motors (next year's EX motor, THRP-2), filling at the pad. I've been using a club member's tank in the past, but that was now a few years ago! I need to get my own.

Suggestions on what to ask for? Siphon tube, any size specs? Orifice? Valve? If it is suitable for larger Contrail motors it will be suitable for what I'm doing.

I'm guessing a top cover and wheels would be useful as well.

Suggestions and thoughts appreciated! I haven't looked at this in years.

Thanks,
Gerald
 

Dave A

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I wish. I'm in SW Florida now.
I've got two Contrail Ms, all the GSE and long wire setup from Doug and a full 20# tank and Ft Myers lost their field due to a new subdivision!
Maybe I can go up to Tampa and fly there sometime soon.
That long wire setup is really cool.
 

Dave A

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Dave, are you going to URRF this year?
I made a Level 3 attempt about 7 years ago. Ivan helped with setting up the GSE. It came off the pad on that M1491 and screamed so loud it echoed off the trees in the distance.
 
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G_T

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Turns out that getting nitrous around here without doing the tank swap routine is looking like it isn't happening. Nobody I've talked with so far will fill a tank, just swap a steel one.
 
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