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AlphaHybrids

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Sodastream CO2 bottles and their generic equivalents are DOT 3AL. Been meaning to write that down in one of these threads, thanks for the reminder.

The 9001, 9002, and 9003 sizes are great for 54mm hybrids, as they are 2" OD.

Edward
 

DRAGON64

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Although gimmicky, and a "cult classic" the Micro-Hybrid can still be found for sale from time to time. A full D-Class or baby E-class at best, this little 22mm motor is still a find and fun to mess around with.

IMG_0376.jpg
 

Nytrunner

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Fascinating. Are the gas cylinders punctured on ignition, or pressurized on the pad?
 

DRAGON64

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The little green discs are burst diaphragms, which are held in place in the forward bulkhead with a puncture disc (the little brass part). The puncture disc has a small hole through the center of it. The nitrous cylinder is inserted, and then the actuator bulkhead (silver part with black oxide threaded stud) is placed on top of the cylinder and held in place with a snap ring. To arm the system, you use the allen wrench to tighten the threaded stud down on top of the cylinder, pushing it onto the puncture disc. The burst diaphragm and o-ring keep any nitrous from escaping. The burst diaphragm is burned through with an igniter, and the igniter also preheats the paper fuel grain, and then you have a small fast burning working hybrid.
 

0011001100

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Although gimmicky, and a "cult classic" the Micro-Hybrid can still be found for sale from time to time. A full D-Class or baby E-class at best, this little 22mm motor is still a find and fun to mess around with.

View attachment 422843
Are those 8 gram or 16 gram cartridges? I've been thinking about making my own mini hybrid but trying to reduce the weight. I can't find dimensions on the cartridges though.
 

SpaceEggs

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I figured this is probably the best thread to ask- what does the Contrail GSE include? I was under the impression that it came with everything needed to fire one of their motors, but is it just the wires and launch controller? It seems to defeat the point of a plug and play commercial system if I had to go source my own plumbing equipment (ie. fill and dump solenoids). Plenty of people fly Contrail though, so I'm curious what the deal is.

Based on additional researching, I'm thinking that's a no, which seems odd to me that Contrail doesn't explicitly say "We recommend these valves, here's where you can buy them" on their website.
 
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DRAGON64

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Are those 8 gram or 16 gram cartridges? I've been thinking about making my own mini hybrid but trying to reduce the weight. I can't find dimensions on the cartridges though.
There are no marking, but the chargers that came with my purchase look to be 8 gram.
 

DRAGON64

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I figured this is probably the best thread to ask- what does the Contrail GSE include? I was under the impression that it came with everything needed to fire one of their motors, but is it just the wires and launch controller? It seems to defeat the point of a plug and play commercial system if I had to go source my own plumbing equipment (ie. fill and dump solenoids). Plenty of people fly Contrail though, so I'm curious what the deal is.

Based on additional researching, I'm thinking that's a no, which seems odd to me that Contrail doesn't explicitly say "We recommend these valves, here's where you can buy them" on their website.
Tom Sanders (of Contail) is very resourceful and can help you find sources for GSE. He usually recommends Pratt Hobbies, but I am not sure to what extent they are in business anymore. I sourced my GSE from a forum member here on the TRF. Except for a power source, I get everything I need to plumb my tank, with fill, fire and dump capabilities from a distance of 500' The total system is not cheap, but he is about the only person I have found to build hybrid GSE. If you are interested, contact @karlbaum for details.
 

DRAGON64

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Length: 2.564"
Neck: .354"
Major Dia: .800"

Note; these are made to fit 22mm hardware. Rene Caldera originally came up with the design, and I believe Art Applewhite made this motor that I have now. Aerocon Systems used to sell a version called "the Screamer"
 

SpaceEggs

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Tom Sanders (of Contail) is very resourceful and can help you find sources for GSE. He usually recommends Pratt Hobbies, but I am not sure to what extent they are in business anymore. I sourced my GSE from a forum member here on the TRF. Except for a power source, I get everything I need to plumb my tank, with fill, fire and dump capabilities from a distance of 500' The total system is not cheap, but he is about the only person I have found to build hybrid GSE. If you are interested, contact @karlbaum for details.
Thanks. Given that hybrids used to be way more common and are still decently popular (thanks to Contrail holding out), I'm surprised that there isn't some sort of GSE guide out there. I guess there just aren't that many people building the full setup.
 

0011001100

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Length: 2.564"
Neck: .354"
Major Dia: .800"

Note; these are made to fit 22mm hardware. Rene Caldera originally came up with the design, and I believe Art Applewhite made this motor that I have now. Aerocon Systems used to sell a version called "the Screamer"
Thanks. I was hoping it would be small enough for 18mm but I can always go custom sizes since I'd be making it for my own use.
 

Stefan2k4

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Lee Dexter still sells both the micro and mini hybrids. You have to contact him via email and he responds with information on how to order. The Micro uses the 8 grams cylinders. The mini uses the larger 16 gram cylinders. See post number 37 in this thread.


Also you used to be able to order micro hybrids from this site in the UK, but recently it seems when you try to order and checkout the page errors out. That leads me to believe they aren't updating the site anymore.

 
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DRAGON64

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Does anyone here have the 54mm Aerotech hybrid system? And if so, what might the GSE consist of (plumbing wise)?
 

Hybrid33

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I DO, No GSE Required with Aerotech Hybrids, just the same launch equipment used for solid fuel !
 

UhClem

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Does anyone here have the 54mm Aerotech hybrid system? And if so, what might the GSE consist of (plumbing wise)?
GSE consists of the mother tank, fill adapter, and scale. All used long before you reach the pad. I remember one time at Argonia I was refilling my tank when the Flaming Falcon came in. (It missed the car but it was the only vehicle parked in that unmowed grass.)
hot.jpg
 

DRAGON64

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What is the fill adapter specifically? Was it proprietary to Aerotech? I do not have the motor in hand yet to begin sourcing the items... except a scale, that I have.
 

UhClem

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The fill adapter connected to the tank on one end, that required an adapter on the NOS 10lb tank, and a fitting on the other to fit the flight tank. It also has a screw to engage the pin valve on the flight tank.

See instructions.
 

DRAGON64

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Looks like a lot more went into the system as a whole than I had imagined, having never really studied the instruction sheet before. Thanks for posting it.
 

ContrailRockets

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Contrail Rockets newest motor that has had R&D fights before COVID-19. This 54 mm motor is only 20 inches long. It has 10% more NOS than it’s 28 inch certified cousin. More importantly it’s loaded weight is 25% less. The New Black Smoke 4 inch grain has more surface area than the 12 inch grain used in the existing motor. This motor incorporates the CNVA developed to improve NOS dispersal using a vortex pattern which rotates at 1200 RPM as it exits the injector into the combustion chamber.
758CDE82-1497-4D7A-B4C1-1F146630C019.jpeg
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F979E53F-85CB-451F-B7FD-C678E0EB56FE.jpeg
 
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CoyoteNumber2

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Contrail Rockets newest motor that has had R&D fights before COVID-19. This 54 mm motor is only 20 inches long. It has 10% more NOS than it’s 28 inch certified cousin. More importantly it’s loaded weight is 25% less. The New Black Smoke 4 inch grain has more surface area than the 12 inch grain used in the existing motor. This motor incorporates the CNVA developed to improve NOS dispersal using a vortex pattern which rotates at 1200 RPM as it exits the injector into the combustion chamber.
That's awesome. I thought my hybrid days were winding down, but you've piqued my interest.
 

Voyager1

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Very nice! That will be a great addition to my Contrail motor stable.
 

DRAGON64

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Contrail Rockets newest motor that has had R&D fights before COVID-19. This 54 mm motor is only 20 inches long. It has 10% more NOS than it’s 28 inch certified cousin. More importantly it’s loaded weight is 25% less. The New Black Smoke 4 inch grain has more surface area than the 12 inch grain used in the existing motor. This motor incorporates the CNVA developed to improve NOS dispersal using a vortex pattern which rotates at 1200 RPM as it exits the injector into the combustion chamber.
Tom - what is time line, price and availability of certified loads? If this is marketed for research, then just price and availability?
 

DRAGON64

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So, I did indeed order the 98mm motor set from Contrail Rockets, the UPS guy, I'm sure, was glad to get the 29LBS beast off his Brown sled... I will get images of the contents after I get off of work... everything was packaged well, so there was no damage.

98MM UPS DELIVERED_SM.jpg
 

DRAGON64

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The 98mm Contrail Hybrid motor system is massive! Here are a few images of what I received:

98MM Motor 03.jpg


The nozzle carrier...

98MM Motor 02.jpg


98MM Motor 04.jpg


98MM Motor 06.jpg


Vehicle of choice...

98MM Motor 05.jpg
 

Dan Griffing

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It’s actually very easy to modify an existing kit to accept a hybrid motor. If the kit’s booster section is not quite long enough, it only requires a simple extension with centering ring and coupler to accommodate the extra length of the motor tube. I have used this technique on several kit rockets including a PML Gamma and RW Double Shot sustainer to accept 38 mm Contrail motors; MadCow Frenzy XL 4” to accept a Contrail 75 mm motor; and a Double Shot booster to accept a 54 mm Contrail motor. In each case you just need to have the extension long enough to allow for the vent tube to exit the booster forward of the top of the motor case - except for the 75 mm which vents out the aft end.
I have an extended loan of 38mm, 54mm and 75mm Contrail motors in several lengths and nozzles.

I’ve designed and an now building 1-38mm, and 2-54mm rockets, and have designed a 75mm rocket for my level-3 attempt in a couple of years.

Are extra centering rings and motor tube extensions needed for the extra long 36, 48, and 54” motor tubes?
 

Voyager1

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I haven't extended the motor mount tubes generally, but I do install a 3D printed centering ring at the forward end of the motor tube. In the image below I have a Contrail 54mm 28" motor installed in the booster of a single stage version of a RW Double Shot. The forward CR is indicated by the red arrow. It is held on the motor by the inter-stage coupler tube. I do a similar installation with the 38mm and 75mm motor tubes in the other rockets.
DS-SS-1.jpg
 

Dan Griffing

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I haven't extended the motor mount tubes generally, but I do install a 3D printed centering ring at the forward end of the motor tube. In the image below I have a Contrail 54mm 28" motor installed in the booster of a single stage version of a RW Double Shot. The forward CR is indicated by the red arrow. It is held on the motor by the inter-stage coupler tube. I do a similar installation with the 38mm and 75mm motor tubes in the other rockets.
View attachment 432096
What I meant was whether a CR with a short section of motor mount tube was needed to keep the front end of the motor from flapping around. I wasn't meaning to imply that the whole motor mount was extended the length of the longer hybrid motor. That would add far too much weight.

My current hybrid designs have an isolation bulkhead between the hybrid motor and the parachute bay to prevent BP ejection residues from crapping up the hybrid hardware. I noticed that your design didn't do this. Have you had problems with BP residue on your hybrid hardware?

The attached PDF is an image of the RockSim 2D for this modified SDX3 design for a 54" 54mm Contrails M711 motor.
 

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