Quantcast

How to..Launch pad for Duece and Drag racing

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
Thought I would share my building of a dual purpose simple to make launch set up for single rockets or the dual powered Deuce.

This can also be used for drag racing!

First have to make the rod holders ala Mr Flis. [thank you for all your helpful advice]

Uses a spent 18mm Estes motor.

Wrap enough tape around rod tip to fit snug into nozzle end of ALREADY fired motor.

Insert into nozzle.

Fill with glue and let dry.

100_4123.jpg


100_4125.jpg


100_4126.jpg
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
I got a little fancy and painted it drag race orange LOL.

Drill small hole in the side for inserting small piece of wire. This is 22 gauge.

Will be used for holding igniter tube and wire.

100_4113.jpg


100_4116.jpg


100_4119.jpg


100_4122.jpg
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
At this point you can simply glue a launch lug to the side of it and slide over your Estes or club launch pad. Tape will work also.

But as luck will have it. an Estes motor fits perfectly snug over a 1/4in nut or bolt head.

I use an old camera tripod obtained for 5.00 for my pad. Don't have to bend over to load and it also uses a 1/4 threaded receiver .

So a short section of 1/4in allthread with double nuts makes for a perfect fit!

100_2260.jpg


100_4133.jpg


100_4131.jpg


100_4136.jpg
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
Used a 10in. piece of 1x2 for the pad. Will have 2 rods on it.

Will make one later with 5 for the club launches, just longer with 3 more bolts.


Simple drill 3 holes properly spaced. The center one all the way through to allow mounting to the tripod. The other 2 partially into the wood to accept the 1/4in bolts. [these are 1 1/2 long, just what was on hand]

100_4111.jpg


100_4112.jpg


100_4115.jpg
 

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
8,255
Reaction score
9
Jim, that paper tube to hold the igniter looks like a neat idea. What did you use for it? This has been my biggest problem with the new Q2 igniters - finding a way to hold them steady and keep them in the nozzles. I have had a failure rate of close to 50% with the Q2s. My failure rate with the old QMX igniters (stripped out of their plug shells) is less than 5%. It gets expensive pretty fast when you have to buy twice as many igniters as you will need, because you can count on half of them not working. Also, I have yet to work out a way to use them with the Diminutive Deuce. I haven't had a successful launch of that model in over a year.

I did just pick up the Quest MicroMaxx Launch Set, but I cannot figure out how the pad is supposed to hold the igniter in it. Using small tubes like you show looks like it might work, though. What is that, BT-2?

MarkII
 
Last edited:

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
Now for the Deuce [or for that matter any dual motor rocket]pad.

Made another rod holder like the first.

Added a small terminal block from Radio Shack. package of 12 was 1.90 .
Drilled hole in spent case with 1/8 bit and mounted with 4-40 bolt. CA'd in.

Add another wire to hold igniter 180 from first.

On one side of terminal block a set of micro clips. Other side inserted 2 4-40 bolts to act as hook up points for pad clips.

The idea is to keep to weight of the pad clips off the igniters.

This will also allow me to prep the dual igniters in advance and carry the rod ad prepped igniters out to the pad, ready to accept rocket, hook up and fly.

We all know what a pain it can be if done out on the pads.

Will finish set up in a few days and post.

PS. Don't get on my case for the poorly twisted and prepped igniter wires. These are just the stunt ones hired for pictures!

100_4138.jpg


100_4140.jpg


100_4142.jpg
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
Jim, that paper tube to hold the igniter looks like a neat idea. What did you use for it? This has been my biggest problem with the new Q2 igniters - finding a way to hold them steady and keep them in the nozzles. I have had a failure rate of close to 50% with the Q2s. My failure rate with the old QMX igniters (stripped out of their plug shells) is less than 5%. It gets expensive pretty fast when you have to buy twice as many igniters as you will need, because you can count on half of them not working. Also, I have yet to work out a way to use them with the Diminutive Deuce. I haven't had a successful launch of that model in over a year.

I did just pick up the Quest MicroMaxx Launch Set, but I cannot figure out how the pad is supposed to hold the igniter in it.

MarkII

The tubes come with the motors as shown.But if you didn't get any you can use the tubes that the copperheads come in with small reloads if you use them. F motor and smaller. just cut the tube into 1/2 sections.

Insert the bead 1/2 way into tube then the assembly over the plastic post on the pad or wire in my case. They show squeezing the tube between 2 posts, I find it works better to just slip it onto one.
There are 2 posts on the Quest pad, but I could not get them to work with the Deuce either. I think they are for a standard 2 motor set up.

My setup is simple and works great. However the Quest controller does not have enough juice to fire 2 igniters at once. I did a dry run, it will only fire one.

That's why I designed this simple solution. I you don't have an extra rod, just cut off the elbow on the Quest one and make the one I show.

Pad pic shows 2 igniters on it.

Jim Flis sells them if you need a couple.

100_2263.jpg


100_2262.jpg


100_4134.jpg


100_4135.jpg


100_2262_2.jpg
 
Last edited:

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
15,074
Reaction score
38
Location
Washington DC
Very KEWL Blackjack!
but way more involved then need be for a two motor cluster.
simple install the motors and twist the leads and away they go.
Not nearly as nifty or complicated as yours but works;)

The drag race feature is really cool..

MM 328Lp02c-sm_D-Deuce2pic 2nd flt_04-21-07.JPG


MM 328lp01d-sm_D-Deuce 1st Flt 3pic_03-24-07.jpg
 
Last edited:

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
More close ups

The big plus to this, you can bend the wire to any position to make fitting the igniters a breeze!

100_2256.jpg


100_4144.jpg
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
Thanks Micro.

If I had the tools and skills I may have done one similar to yours.

Had to work with what I got. Let's be honest here, that set up you got is pretty fancy and beyond the reach of most of us.

Mine is basically a down and dirty version/copy.LOL

It addresses the problem of using the igniters and tubes that come with the newer motors. I have not been into micros long enough to have even seen the old style plastic ones.
 
Last edited:

jflis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
15,422
Reaction score
34
An elegant solution :) Frankly, I've never used those little tubes and still use a small toothpick to hold the ignitors into the motors...
 

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
8,255
Reaction score
9
Thanks, CJ. I got a bulk pack of Q2s from FlisKits last year, but it didn't include those little tubes. Really, though, what I lacked was concept (how to use this type of igniter effectively) rather than supplies. All resolved now.

Wow, I've got to study this pad of yours. It's an elegant design that appears to be simple to build out of everyday parts. Amazing how quickly the student becomes the teacher. This and your great downscales - I'm impressed! :clap: Your MicroMaxx threads are a pleasure to read.

MarkII
 

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
8,255
Reaction score
9
Jim F., using toothpicks as igniter supports for (unshelled) QMX igniters has worked out extremely well for me, but things haven't gone so well when I have used them with Q2s. At my last launch last fall, I went through 5 Q2 igniters to get 2 rockets launched. But the Q2s have such a great design, and I might have just been having a bad day. I haven't had that much failure with MicroMaxx in years, though. I'd like to find a different way to support this type of igniter, especially in combination with your ingenious pad adapter. CJ's modification has a lot of appeal for me, and I'm eager to give it a try.

MarkII
 

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
8,255
Reaction score
9
There is a design for a 3-way drag race pad (for the MicroMaxx version of the Triple Threat saucers) on the FlisKits web site. The issue is coming up with a way to simultaneously ignite motors on three pads that are physically separated. This design uses the equivalent of a 3-way clip whip and it is a dedicated drag race pad.

MarkII
 

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
15,074
Reaction score
38
Location
Washington DC
I agree the wire support for the empty tubes is an elegant way to support the Q2 igniters in the tubes.
Since I rarely use the tubes myself I've never had cause to worry about how to support them as they Q2 igniters work the same as bare nichrome on my coiled clip supported pads.
It is however my contention the cardboard tubes cause more problems then they solve as far as misfires are concerned because we can't see what's going on below the edge of the tube. If the model sits down of these things to far or is pressed down to hard bending the wires causing them to touch inside the tube you don't know it until the model doesn't take off. I like having the entire external portion of the igniter expose to view so it's possible to tell right away if we've created a misfire short durning model installation.
Better yet is night before igniter installing in the motors using the old tape and wadding ball method. This simply does away with shorted wire misfires.
(I remove the glass bead from Q2's for this type installation) they work just fine.

Mark, that's more or less the may most Drag Race systems are set up tapping a single power freed X number of sets of equal length clip whip leads. Jim's 3 arm launcher could just as easily be 4, 6 arm depending on the power supply and location of that supply with repect to the launcher or relay.

Generally I include a two pad Drag race option on most of our Rack system set-ups just by adding a clip lead to the back side of our pad splitter.

I've been toying with the idea of adding a pair of swing out arms on my little micro everyday pad to allow a 2 or 3 model drag race option to it's abilities. the Only hold up has been looking for an elegant way to wire these arms with concealed wiring.

Blackjack: I don't understand: You have all the tools and skills need to produce a pad just like mine. wood, plastic or aluminum these materials are the only difference. The only reason I use aluminum over wood is for longevity. Sure it's a little harder to get "cheap" then wood but with a little digging and dumpster diving we can come up with loads of the stuff from scrap junk thrown away all the time. ie Old street and parking signs are usually .063" or .080" aluminum these days;)

I think I'm gonna do a complete build thread on that little flat plate launch platform so you guys can see just how easy it was to produce, I mean it really is one of those anyone can do it things. I'll go so far as to use an unpowered mechanical hand drill, hacksaw and hand tools for all the work. A 1/4" powered drill and sabre, scroll or band saw makes it a little quicker and easier but not necessary. All the finishing filing and sanding are done by hand anyway.

I do think your motor casing DragRace launcher is pretty neat!
 
Last edited:

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
All dressed up and ready to go! I will be adding a 2-way hook up whip so when finished just one set of clips go to the pad. The pad will then have a built on whip to both. Just have to figure that out.

100_4141.jpg
 

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
15,074
Reaction score
38
Location
Washington DC
All dressed up and ready to go! I will be adding a 2-way hook up whip so when finished just one set of clips go to the pad. The pad will then have a built on whip to both. Just have to figure that out.
Jim:
Just do exactly the same thing for the second pad with a with connection point centered between the two pads. This centered cable would have a "hook-up" point midway between both pads where the controllers micro-clip leads connect.
drag race both pads or two motor cluster one side with the other clips open or not touching.
 

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
8,255
Reaction score
9
John, I don't see this as taking anything away from your very nifty launch pad. I happen to like both approaches, yours and Jim's. CJ's pad uses Jim Flis' Micromaxx launch rod adapter as its starting point; that's why it is different from yours.

Installing an igniter into a Micromaxx motor always requires a bit of care and precision, regardless of which method you use. I'm sure that you need to be just as careful with tube supports as you do with any other method. This is the method that Quest, the manufacturer of the motors, uses.

There are many ways to skin a piece of nichrome wire. Vive la différence! :D

MarkII
 

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
15,074
Reaction score
38
Location
Washington DC
John, I don't see this as taking anything away from your very nifty launch pad. I happen to like both approaches, yours and Jim's. CJ's pad uses Jim Flis' Micromaxx launch rod adapter as its starting point; that's why it is different from yours.

Installing an igniter into a Micromaxx motor always requires a bit of care and precision, regardless of which method you use. I'm sure that you need to be just as careful with tube supports as you do with any other method. This is the method that Quest, the manufacturer of the motors, uses.

There are many ways to skin a piece of nichrome wire. Vive la différence! :D

MarkII
I understand ones not any better then another Mark! that wasn't my point. I really think Jims approach is very good with the possible exception of using the blinding cardboard mounting tubes. It's inside the tube bewteen the glass bead and the tip that I find most people have trouble with the micro Q2 igniters. either in handling or shipping those tiny wires forward of the bead have a tendency to short themselfs with the adjacent wire. pressing down on as a model is lowered onto on of these has caused many a good igniter to take two countdowns and a bit of messing with to take off.

I have to take a little exception though, as NO I don't have to be careful with the bare nichrome, or pyrogen tipped igniters at all (my own or Q2's)... Once Installed in the motors with the wadding and tape method that is;)
I'm sure I've mentioned before that I remove (crush off) the glass beads which are just in the way as far as I'm concerned. Preferring to use the entire length of the wire rather then just the rear half. This gives Plenty of length for spannign the Duece dual motors or wire up in-line micro cluster.

One launcher isn't better then another..it's all about making the igniters work with the least hastle and the quickest turnaround time in the field.

I Stand again and say loudly from my soapbox! "Sometime the old ways are the best ways!"
Preparing our micro motors, be they MMX-1 or MMX-II with the old wadding ball and 1/4" masking tape trick allows a whole days motors and/or models to be prepared leasurely the night before a launch IN THE HOUSE. Warm and cozy without wind, or distractions. Making for a very nice flying day with only minimal on the field prep between launch times.

Edit: Oops forgot to show how to remove the glass beads.

11_8pic Wadding Ball install Pg_03-26-06.jpg


12_2pic Q2 Glass Bead removal_03-26-06.jpg
 
Last edited:

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
8,255
Reaction score
9
I have said this before, but let me repeat: I like the old "ball of wadding as igniter plug" method, which I used with bare nichrome igniters back in the 60s, and I really wanted to use it again with Micromaxx motors. It's probably just me, but I have never been able to use that method successfully with them, though. But that doesn't mean that others can't try it; it could very well work for them.

I'm sure that you use precision when you are prepping your micro rockets, but because you have done it for so long, it is second nature to you and therefore you don't think it's any big deal. Micro rockets require a bit more care and precision when they are being prepped, not because they are delicate or finicky, but because they are quite small. Nearly all rocketeers can deal with the tiny size with minimal or no practice. They just have to adjust their attention and actions to the scale. That's what I mean when I talked about being more precise.

MarkII
 

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
15,074
Reaction score
38
Location
Washington DC
I have said this before, but let me repeat: I like the old "ball of wadding as igniter plug" method, which I used with bare nichrome igniters back in the 60s, and I really wanted to use it again with Micromaxx motors. It's probably just me, but I have never been able to use that method successfully with them, though. But that doesn't mean that others can't try it; it could very well work for them.

I'm sure that you use precision when you are prepping your micro rockets, but because you have done it for so long, it is second nature to you and therefore you don't think it's any big deal. Micro rockets require a bit more care and precision when they are being prepped, not because they are delicate or finicky, but because they are quite small. Nearly all rocketeers can deal with the tiny size with minimal or no practice. They just have to adjust their attention and actions to the scale. That's what I mean when I talked about being more precise.

MarkII
Very True:
Practice Makes Permanent or Consistent...NOT perfect:)

Use of the wadding ball & tape does take a small amount of practice, learnign to tare off the tiny bit of FP wadding needed for the ball. and the purchase of a roll of 1/8" wide masking tape which is some times not all that common an item.

Lets get back to the Thread though!
Jim! how did you address the second model Drag race wiring issue?
The more I thought about it the more I'm convinced just doubling what you did for the first pad should work fine and allow either cluster or drag racing from both pads. With a big enough battery at the pad you might even be able to drag race two motor clustered models;)
 
Last edited:

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
Well guys....Micros might make it to the big screen. Just finished my interview for the Discovery channel and my drag pad was put to use.

Tim and I did a "preview" drag race of the 'big event at LDRS using my Dark/Star and Comp 4. After the usual trash talk, we took it outside and drag raced the Micros while they filmed the event. He picked the 4 and I the DS.

Of course I won! It was blowing a steady 20-25 and raining, and I told them the conditions were insane for launching these tiny rockets and wouldn't do it. After being bribed by the producer with a King crab dinner in California after LDRS, I figured the "good TV" they were after was worth it.

I was amazed even in the wind they went well over 100 ft, flew straight as arrows and were retrieved by the producer. [part of the deal!]


The tiny drag race pad performed flawlessly! Who would have thought it's debut would be televised for TV.[ if it makes the cut ]

So there you have it. Guess I'll have to take some pics and post them soon.
 

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
15,074
Reaction score
38
Location
Washington DC
Well guys....Micros might make it to the big screen. Just finished my interview for the Discovery channel and my drag pad was put to use.

Tim and I did a "preview" drag race of the 'big event at LDRS using my Dark/Star and Comp 4. After the usual trash talk, we took it outside and drag raced the Micros while they filmed the event. He picked the 4 and I the DS.

Of course I won! It was blowing a steady 20-25 and raining, and I told them the conditions were insane for launching these tiny rockets and wouldn't do it. After being bribed by the producer with a King crab dinner in California after LDRS, I figured the "good TV" they were after was worth it.

I was amazed even in the wind they went well over 100 ft, flew straight as arrows and were retrieved by the producer. [part of the deal!]

The tiny drag race pad performed flawlessly! Who would have thought it's debut would be televised for TV.[ if it makes the cut ]

So there you have it. Guess I'll have to take some pics and post them soon.
Sounds very exciting: now if they'll only actually include it in the TV show.
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
Well it looks like the Micro segment got it's 15 minutes......opps or should i say....1.5 seconds of fame on the LDRS special.

Finally Micro's make it to the big screen!

......I won!.........
 

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
15,074
Reaction score
38
Location
Washington DC
That's great news Jim!
Did you say the show has already been on the air? Drat missed it again.
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
1,138
Location
Savannah Ga
Here is the repeat schedule John. It's at the first half of show, but don't blink or you will miss it. LOL Set your recorder.

Picture 3.png
 

Latest posts

Top