How to get a teen interested in rocketry?

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I was a pretty atypical kid. I didn’t handle consequences for breaking the rules well, so I did things by the book. Often stricter and more challenging than the book. I also hated getting hurt and I was pretty good at identifying what was and wasn’t safe. If the adults gave me a safety rule I’d follow it zealously, even to the point of trying to police the other kids for their own infractions. This did not make me popular, as you might imagine.
Back in my day, that would have been a guaranteed problem for you, instantly !

Dave F.
 
It was a problem for me in my day and it will likely be a problem for kids like that far in the future.

I was always more afraid of the consequences than most people, so I too followed the rules to a T and often even more conservatively, as you indicated. I was fairly shy around large groups and only had a couple of close friends, so I never really had an issue policing other kids, but I would absolutely leave situations if I could where people were screwing around.

I'm not shy now and if I am in a role of authority (work, hobbies etc.) I hold people to a pretty high standard and will call them out as I believe to be valid. If I'm not in a position of authority, I still will bring up at least following rules, even if not at an enhanced level.

I think it all turned out as it did for a reason, even though I have no clue why!

Sandy.
 
I also think that doing rockets one on one with dad may be far less intimidating and annoying than joining a bunch of old guys at a club launch to talk about and launch rockets.
Sadly, that only works while the kids are in elementary school.
By the time they hit teenage years, then want to find and tread their own path in the world. That means that everything their parents are into, by definition, is "old" and "not cool".


Take his girlfriend along to a launch
And here's why.
Gils and cars can be fun, but I'm not sure how exactly you propose to combine those with rocket launches?
If there is a girlfriend in the picture, I'm not sure that her presence will increase focus on rocketry.
If there is no girlfriend (boys mature way later than girls), then what? Truck hookers to rocket launch events?
That might increase the turnout among the old timers (once the word spreads), but I am not so certain about the intended target audience of this thread.
;)

a
 
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I would really try to take him along. Attending a launch, and with his son, might be enough to lift him. Covid has caused a lot of mental health issues and people are disinclined to talk about it. I have been hit by depression and am just trying to make it through and out the other side. Not winning yet, but not losing currently either. The scary thing is that I am the most sane person I know and it has got me.

Hobbies are helpful for depression. Running a rocket business, however small, is good for depression. It’s certainly helped me.

A launch as a visitor is a great idea. All the spectacle without any stresses.
 
My 2 step plan:

1. Tell him video games are nothing but math. He'll either start hating video games or liking math.
2. Tell him drugs are nothing but chemistry. He'll either start hating drugs or liking chemistry.

With this plan, there is a 25% chance he starts liking both math and chemistry in which case rocketery will follow. Worst case scenario: he'll hate both drugs and video games.
caffeine-molecule-greg-williamsscience-photo-library.jpg
 
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Hobbies are helpful for depression. Running a rocket business, however small, is good for depression. It’s certainly helped me.

A launch as a visitor is a great idea. All the spectacle without any stresses.
Sometimes black powder, superglue, and the salty air of Mission Bay are good for the soul.
 
If he's taken to launches, sees them, and still isn't interested, give up. Even back in the day, the only kids that were interested, got interested on their own. A simple introduction was all that was necessary. Our parents didn't drag us to launches; my parents were (dad) passive-aggressive or (mom) mildly hostile to model rocketry. Even the new activities (TARC, NASA SLI) are generally only interesting to most of the participants because of the team building (or extracurricular activity check off) and career building aspects. I never saw model rocketry as (only) a means to an end, but as a cool (to me) individual activity. I decided early on that I didn't want to work for NASA or Lockheed, but I just liked rockets. If kids these days just don't care for the activity, there's not much you can do.
 
If he's taken to launches, sees them, and still isn't interested, give up. Even back in the day, the only kids that were interested, got interested on their own. A simple introduction was all that was necessary. Our parents didn't drag us to launches; my parents were (dad) passive-aggressive or (mom) mildly hostile to model rocketry.
"Back in the day", parents "ingrained / programmed" every desired behavior into their children, from day one. Children were taught "this is right / this is wrong" . . . "this is what we believe and anyone who opposes those beliefs is wrong" . . . "people who do not share our values are a bad influence and are to be avoided" . . . "Do as you are told or there will be consequences / no argument" . . . "Proper behavior is rewarded / improper behavior is punished, without exception, or negotiation". Parents all met and knew each other and, if your parents did not like a family, you were forbidden from interacting with them, etc, etc, etc.

During the last few decades, parents have been, consistently, less & less "integrated" into their children's upbringing. Public schools have, largely, assumed much of that and parents are far less "engaged" in what is actually being taught to their children, on all levels.

Parents must not be "friends" to their children, during childhood, but should be respected "authority figures". "Friendship" can come later, after the child reaches Adulthood.

Suddenly deciding, years into a child's life, that you want them to "think like you" is a losing proposition, because you should have been "fully engaged / invested", from day one. In not doing so, the child who "lives under your roof" is not the child you "should have raised".

If you have any doubt of this, take a good look around you . . .

Dave F.
 
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"Back in the day", parents "ingrained / programmed" every desired behavior into their children, from day one. Children were taught "this is right / this is wrong" . . . "this is what we believe and anyone who opposes those beliefs is wrong" . . . "people who do not share our values are a bad influence and are to be avoided" . . . "Do as you are told or there will be consequences / no argument" . . . "Proper behavior is rewarded / improper behavior is punished, without exception, or negotiation". Parents all met and knew each other and, if your parents did not like a family, you were forbidden from interacting with them, etc, etc, etc.

During the last few decades, parents have been, consistently, less & less "integrated" into their children's upbringing. Public schools have, largely, assumed much of that and parents are far less "engaged" in what is actually being taught to their children, on all levels.

Parents must not be "friends" to their children, during childhood, but should be respected "authority figures". "Friendship" can come later, after the child reaches Adulthood.

Suddenly deciding, years into a child's life, that you want them to "think like you" is a losing proposition, because you should have been "fully engaged / invested", from day one. In not doing so, the child who "lives under your roof" is not the child you "should have raised".

If you have any doubt of this, take a good look around you . . .

Dave F.
On the other hand, the means and methods used to enforce parents’ chosen order were often excessive in nature and escalated easily and routinely into what is now recognized as damaging abuse. Such a system also does not recognize the intrinsic value of children as individuals and undermines both their ability and willingness to advocate for their needs, even later into life. That approach’s biggest flaw is its complete absence of any requirement for parents to recognize and take responsibility for their errors, of which there are inevitably a great many when discussing human pursuits like parenting.

The end result was a climate of distrust and fear in households, which is precisely the opposite of what is healthy between a child and their primary source of care provision and support.

I and many actual family experts recognize the importance of engagement and involvement in children’s lives, which is still entirely possible in the modern era, public school or no. But listening and providing guidance based on continually improving understanding is often more useful than parenting with an iron fist.

The main difference is that the modern approach actually requires some wisdom, leadership ability, and character, while the “back in the day” way only required ruthlessness.

That’s not to say that today’s parents and the institutions they entrust to take care of their kids don’t have their own issues they need to work out. Kids do often spend more of their day at school campuses than they used to. They’re secured more heavily, feel more stifling, and are designed for easier control of students’ movements, even to the point that they’re taking architectural and layout influences from high-security prisons. Minor disciplinary issues are also increasingly handled through criminal prosecution via school resource officers instead of age-appropriate administrative action.

F3C278AF-DF0B-427D-9057-1CE75E54CA78.jpeg

Personally, I find it amazing that the world has devolved so severely that an early 2000s young readers’ book centered around a pair of 4th-grade geeks and their ridiculous toilet humor evolved into something so biting and so real.
 
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"Back in the day", parents "ingrained / programmed" every desired behavior into their children, from day one. Children were taught "this is right / this is wrong" . . . "this is what we believe and anyone who opposes those beliefs is wrong" . . . "people who do not share our values are a bad influence and are to be avoided" . . . "Do as you are told or there will be consequences / no argument" . . . "Proper behavior is rewarded / improper behavior is punished, without exception, or negotiation". Parents all met and knew each other and, if your parents did not like a family, you were forbidden from interacting with them, etc, etc, etc.

During the last few decades, parents have been, consistently, less & less "integrated" into their children's upbringing. Public schools have, largely, assumed much of that and parents are far less "engaged" in what is actually being taught to their children, on all levels.

Parents must not be "friends" to their children, during childhood, but should be respected "authority figures". "Friendship" can come later, after the child reaches Adulthood.

Suddenly deciding, years into a child's life, that you want them to "think like you" is a losing proposition, because you should have been "fully engaged / invested", from day one. In not doing so, the child who "lives under your roof" is not the child you "should have raised".

If you have any doubt of this, take a good look around you . . .

Dave F.
Don't know what reality you've been living with, but many of the parents I've known have had their kids' itinerary planned to the second for years; what they're exposed to under great scrutiny. Every month we get inquiries from parents who "want to get their kids into rocketry" (they show up once and never again) or parents whose kids *are* interested, but they can't attend launches because soccer, church, [insert any number of other activities]. They are the most "involved with their kids" parents possible. The others that seem to be lax actually seem to have their kids on tighter chains, which is why I think the kids often act out when they do get some free time.
 
The curmudgeonry here is amazing. If any of you spent any time with kiddos involved in stem like my wife and I do you'd have a much better view of today's youth. Instead, I think what is happening here in this thread is a lot of armchair quarter-backing from folks who have had zero interaction with any youth for the last 20+ years and are conveniently forgetting how stupid ALL OF US were in our teens and how badly some of us were truly raised. I'll give you an example: My dad took my brother through a trailer park once. Told my sibling that this is the kind of place he was going to live in if he didn't start doing better in school. What was the lesson there? Money buys happiness? The people who live in trailer parks are dumb? I know my dad meant well but geez, what a garbage way to get the point across.
 
1. Tell him video games are nothing but math.
Paradox game players:

Chad Yes.png

(Context: Paradox Interactive is a game developer best known for grand strategy games involving, among other things, careful resource management and cost/benefit analysis. See: Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Victoria, Hearts of Iron, Stellaris)
 
"Back in the day", parents "ingrained / programmed" every desired behavior into their children, from day one. Children were taught "this is right / this is wrong" . . . "this is what we believe and anyone who opposes those beliefs is wrong" . . . "people who do not share our values are a bad influence and are to be avoided" . . . "Do as you are told or there will be consequences / no argument" . . . "Proper behavior is rewarded / improper behavior is punished, without exception, or negotiation". Parents all met and knew each other and, if your parents did not like a family, you were forbidden from interacting with them, etc, etc, etc.

During the last few decades, parents have been, consistently, less & less "integrated" into their children's upbringing. Public schools have, largely, assumed much of that and parents are far less "engaged" in what is actually being taught to their children, on all levels.

Parents must not be "friends" to their children, during childhood, but should be respected "authority figures". "Friendship" can come later, after the child reaches Adulthood.

Suddenly deciding, years into a child's life, that you want them to "think like you" is a losing proposition, because you should have been "fully engaged / invested", from day one. In not doing so, the child who "lives under your roof" is not the child you "should have raised".

If you have any doubt of this, take a good look around you . . .

Dave F.
You can't have it both ways. Half the time, you're reminiscing about how parents controlled every aspect of their children's lives, and the other half you're wistfully remembering running around town playing until dark and your parents had no idea where you were.

Did parents forbidding their children from listening to Elvis [or The Beatles, Bon Jovi, Metallica, Nirvana...] prevent kids from listening to those bands?

There's a major difference between respect and fear, as pointed out by @smstachwick above.

What I see is not parents outsourcing child-rearing to public schools, but rather to private providers (day care, music lessons, and very occasionally rocketry club). They do that because it's very difficult to make it on one income now. That discussion is far outside the bounds of this thread (and forum, for that matter).
 
"Back in the day", parents "ingrained / programmed" every desired behavior into their children, from day one. Children were taught "this is right / this is wrong" . . . "this is what we believe and anyone who opposes those beliefs is wrong" . . . "people who do not share our values are a bad influence and are to be avoided" . . . "Do as you are told or there will be consequences / no argument" . . . "Proper behavior is rewarded / improper behavior is punished, without exception, or negotiation". Parents all met and knew each other and, if your parents did not like a family, you were forbidden from interacting with them, etc, etc, etc.

During the last few decades, parents have been, consistently, less & less "integrated" into their children's upbringing. Public schools have, largely, assumed much of that and parents are far less "engaged" in what is actually being taught to their children, on all levels.

Parents must not be "friends" to their children, during childhood, but should be respected "authority figures". "Friendship" can come later, after the child reaches Adulthood.

Suddenly deciding, years into a child's life, that you want them to "think like you" is a losing proposition, because you should have been "fully engaged / invested", from day one. In not doing so, the child who "lives under your roof" is not the child you "should have raised".

If you have any doubt of this, take a good look around you . . .

Dave F.

Dave, everything you said is entirely wrong. Your memory is faulty, your perception is wrong, you are hallucinating. That old testament abuse did more damage than you can understand.
 
My dad took my brother through a trailer park once. Told my sibling that this is the kind of place he was going to live in if he didn't start doing better in school. What was the lesson there? Money buys happiness? The people who live in trailer parks are dumb? I know my dad meant well but geez, what a garbage way to get the point across.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with his actions. The director of a large and well regarded child psychology unit in my city did basically the same (ghetto area) with his two daughters. I took a different approach. I went shopping with my daughter at Bloomingdale's. I commented that being a lawyer or physician, or other prosperous career, would be advantageous if she wanted to shop there on a regular basis. All three children are well educated, have excellent careers, and are quite happy.

The country has way too many snowflakes. Several are on this forum.
 
There was absolutely nothing wrong with his actions. The director of a large and well regarded child psychology unit in my city did basically the same (ghetto area) with his two daughters. I took a different approach. I went shopping with my daughter at Bloomingdale's. I commented that being a lawyer or physician, or other prosperous career, would be advantageous if she wanted to shop there on a regular basis. All three children are well educated, have excellent careers, and are quite happy.

The country has way too many snowflakes. Several are on this forum.

Are you calling me a snowflake?

So are you saying money is happiness and people who live in trailer parks are dumb/uneducated?

Edit: Guess looking down on those who are less fortunate than I ain't my thing. Must be a flaw of mine...
 
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Are you calling me a snowflake?

So are you saying money is happiness and people who live in trailer parks are dumb/uneducated?

Edit: Guess looking down on those who are less fortunate than I ain't my thing. Must be a flaw of mine...
I often use the “if the shoe fits” approach he opted for here and I can’t recommend your current approach of inferring and/or trying to draw out a direct insult. Since it clearly does not fit, you don’t have to try to wear it.

That’s just my take though. Handle this as you see…uhh…fit.

(Minor edits)
 
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I often use the “if the shoe fits” approach he opted for here and I can’t recommend your current approach of trying to inferring and/or draw out a direct insult. Since it clearly does not fit, you don’t have to try to wear it.

That’s just my take though. Handle this as you see…uhh…fit.
There’s also a fascinating projection complex where people who can’t accept that someone else might hold a contrary opinion will call others snowflakes.
 
Are you calling me a snowflake?

So are you saying money is happiness and people who live in trailer parks are dumb/uneducated?

Edit: Guess looking down on those who are less fortunate than I ain't my thing. Must be a flaw of mine...

He's just like the Hollywood elites. Bet his kids are all woke.

A couple of teens have chimed in on this thread with their opinions. They've been ignored while others advocate for forcing their kids into a hobby. These are the same type of people who push for the beatings to continue until morale improves.

The thread does an excellent job of showing why some groups struggle to attract/retain young people in this hobby.
 
I would also be very interested in how many of the “beatings will continue” crowd (a) have raised children to adulthood and, if so, (b) have a close relationship with their adult children.
 
I would also be very interested in how many of the “beatings will continue” crowd (a) have raised children to adulthood and, if so, (b) have a close relationship with their adult children.

Think maybe their kids never call and are always too busy to visit for the holidays?
 
I will throw my two cents in. As someone who has been in the hobby since I was 5 years old, I will say the most common thing I see at launches regarding hobbyists with kids, is that they try to tell them how to do everything and talk down to them. That and restricting them to a certain size rocket.

Ask them if they could build anything they want what it would be. And then set a path toward that - letting them do everything (only step in if safety is concern). If there isn’t much of an answer then they aren’t interested.
 
One thing I laugh at in our [first rate] society:

We need a license & pass a test (or tests) to:
  • drive a car
  • follow some professional careers (where human life may be at risk due to our actions)
  • own a dog
  • etc..

Yet you are encouraged to have kids, as many as you want (even without the intent on having kids) and raise them as you see fit.. Usually with little to no guidance or coaching.. So, these kids are likely to be taught / conditioned, et.. to your whims & such. With only the local [public usually] school & TV giving any consistent moral and social advice / skills..

I jsut find it funny that we can raise kids without any form of training or .. We get coaching on how to birth them... but that seems to be about it.. (unless you make some effort to do so..)
 
I will throw my two cents in. As someone who has been in the hobby since I was 5 years old, I will say the most common thing I see at launches regarding hobbyists with kids, is that they try to tell them how to do everything and talk down to them. That and restricting them to a certain size rocket.

Ask them if they could build anything they want what it would be. And then set a path toward that - letting them do everything (only step in if safety is concern). If there isn’t much of an answer then they aren’t interested.
This brings up a question for the OP @Sooner Boomer: Has the teen been coming to launches for several years, and gradually lost interest? Or did their parent recently become a BAR and the parent is trying to bring the teen in? If the kid was interested but isn't any longer, there might be a little more room for trying to find out how to rekindle the hobby.

Regardless, the conversation probably needs to start with something like "Look, I get that you're bored and don't seem to enjoy launches. I'd love for you to like this hobby, but I get that it's my hobby and I can't make you like it. Are there any aspects of rocketry that you like? I can support you on some projects in that vein if you like. If not, I understand and I'll stop dragging you to launches if you don't want to be here."
 
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