How to get a motor certified

[PayLoad]

29mm 7.5 second burn I90 - 640 nS. I'm happy with how it works, I have no intention of building different motors (29mm is what I like). Anyone pointing me in the right direction would be thanked repeatedly. Want it certified so MAYBE I could sell a few, mostly so I could fly at sanctioned events.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Download the certification procedure for the organization you prefer. The information, including any prerequisites, should be there.

 

[Neutron95]

Have you fixed the thermal issues from the last time you posted about this motor? From the previous post it definitely looked like it exceeded the 200 C casing temperature limit for commercial motors. I know that even Aerotech had issues with that limit on their new line of 29mm endburning motors.

 

[PayLoad]

Have you fixed the thermal issues from the last time you posted about this motor? From the previous post it definitely looked like it exceeded the 200 C casing temperature limit for commercial motors. I know that even Aerotech had issues with that limit on their new line of 29mm endburning motors.

Thermal issues fixed - thanks to suggestions from AT

 

[Neutron95]

This looks like a really cool motor if it gets certified. It should have a pretty good shot at the I altitude record.

 

[PayLoad]

This looks like a really cool motor if it gets certified. It should have a pretty good shot at the I altitude record.

Heh Heh - That is my goal

 

[hball55]

Jeez, almost 31” long. Have to build a rocket just for that motor.

 

[Rocket501]

If I understand correctly, this is mostly an endburner? If this is the case, can you share any info on how you got such a fast burn rate (3.5+ inches per second) if my napkin math based on the picture of the case is correct.

 

[PayLoad]

If I understand correctly, this is mostly an endburner? If this is the case, can you share any info on how you got such a fast burn rate (3.5+ inches per second) if my napkin math based on the picture of the case is correct.

1/2 Center core, 1/2 end burn. Roughly

 

[Rocket501]

1/2 Center core, 1/2 end burn. Roughly

I have no idea how to visualize this or how it would work to produce such a flat thrust curve, but am certainly curious to see the video. In addition to that could you perhaps post a sketch of the grain geometry?

 

[MClark]

Tripoli certification is intended for manufactures who intend to sell motors, not for individuals wanting to use their own motor as certified.
There are requirements to be a Commercial Manufacturer, this is right off the TRA website.

5.2. A party may apply to TMT for recognition as a Commercial Manufacturer. An application shall consist of a cover letter requesting recognition of the individual/company/other party as a commercial motor manufacturer, plus all required documents as described here to be submitted by hand or by mail to the TMT CHAIR.
5.3. Applications shall be made by submitting copies of at least three of the following: (1) Business license; (2) D/B/A or partnership filings; (3) Certificate of Incorporation filing receipt; (4) Relevant permit/license granted to the company or party in question by a government agency; (5) Company’s Certificate of Authority/Sales Tax Certificate; (6) Company’s business telephone listing in white or yellow pages; (7) First and last pages of a commercial release relevant to the application; (8) Company catalog; (9) Recent company advertisement in a regularly-published periodical; (10) Commercial web site/Store URL.

 

[PayLoad]

Tripoli certification is intended for manufactures who intend to sell motors, not for individuals wanting to use their own motor as certified.
There are requirements to be a Commercial Manufacturer, this is right off the TRA website.

5.2. A party may apply to TMT for recognition as a Commercial Manufacturer. An application shall consist of a cover letter requesting recognition of the individual/company/other party as a commercial motor manufacturer, plus all required documents as described here to be submitted by hand or by mail to the TMT CHAIR.
5.3. Applications shall be made by submitting copies of at least three of the following: (1) Business license; (2) D/B/A or partnership filings; (3) Certificate of Incorporation filing receipt; (4) Relevant permit/license granted to the company or party in question by a government agency; (5) Company’s Certificate of Authority/Sales Tax Certificate; (6) Company’s business telephone listing in white or yellow pages; (7) First and last pages of a commercial release relevant to the application; (8) Company catalog; (9) Recent company advertisement in a regularly-published periodical; (10) Commercial web site/Store URL.

Now look - I don't WANT to meet these requirements, but I can. And that is what I will do - thank you for the guidance - "Non-Vaporware" Michael

 

[MClark]

From,

https://www.tripoli.org/Portals/1/D.../TMT Policies and Procedures - 01-06-2020.pdf

 

[jderimig]

How about licensing the design or commissioning an existing manufacturer to certify it and contract manufacture for you?

 

[PayLoad]

First, I want to thank everyone above who helped - this forum is awesome, and my deepest thanks for everyone wanting to help.

Process is far too involved for me - I don't want to be a manufacturer in large scale (not at all in fact) which kills the whole process.

I'll keep making 'em, flying 'em, and if someone in the future has interest, the design is yours.

Michael

 

[Steve Shannon]

The difficulty is not in getting a motor certified. The real difficulty is in becoming recognized as a manufacturer first, which is a prerequisite described in NFPA 1125 Chapter 4.

Michael, I would love to see one of your motors fly.

 

[Jowayen]

If you want to fly at sanctioned events then join Tripoli, obtain L1 and L2 certification, then fly at TRA research launches.

That's what my plan is.
After L2, test and fly ex motors

 

[kbRocket]

Please do consider working with a manufacturer to make something like this commercially available.

IMHO the TRA I record is low compared to other classes due to motor options. There is a need for a longer burning full I.

38 mm and shorter might fly higher and be easier to produce. I haven’t modeled the scenarios.

 

[PayLoad]

...38 mm and shorter might fly higher and be easier to produce. I haven’t modeled the scenarios...

I have this obsession with 29mm motors and 38mm airframes. Except for an Estes Bull Pup and a larger Bull Puppy, all my birds are scratch built 38mm airframes - I like to see how much I can jam in to a small space.

 

[shockie]

IF you don't live in California you have to be NFPA 1125 compliant to be a manufacturer. You can't be a manufacturer and do it in your garage in a residential area. Although back in the day before there was a NFPA 1125 both Jerrie Irvine and Frank Kosdon did. ... along with others. If you want to sell these puppies in California, there's a completely different set of rules and regulations you have to follow. Shipping motors from outside CA into CA they consider importing and you have to have a CA Pyrotech importers license. I hope you have a lot of money to spend, because before you sell one rocket motor you're going to be out about 250K minimum. I forgot to say you can always sell DIY composite motors out of the trunk of your car or truck. at launches . I've seen that done too.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I make an I85 that fits the 38/720 case. I guess I could make a SU version. It's 580 N-s with a 7 sec burn time.

 

[grouch]

Man I would love to see this come to market. I too share the 29mm affliction. I too enjoy 38mm airframes.

 

[Johnly]

The DOT-EX classifications would be the critical issue, as even if you could find a contract manufacture for the propellant the DOT numbers would be necessary to have them commercially shipped.

 

[shockie]

Here's an article by Bill Stine that describes what is needed to start a motor manufacturing plant in today's world. It's BP specific, but the rest applies

 

[Sooner Boomer]

IF you could keep the wings on, that might make a *really* good motor for a rocket glider.

 

[jqavins]

A shame that this isn't practical. I was interested when I saw the thread title because I'd like to fly a thrustless Nil0-7, or -10, or some such. It's all smoke. Probably 18 × 70 mm, slow burning fuel rich R-candy, and no nozzle. But I'd need to be L2 certified, and limited to Tripoli research launches.

I haven't really developed it, because there doesn't seem to be any point.

 

[Steve Shannon]

A shame that this isn't practical. I was interested when I saw the thread title because I'd like to fly a thrustless Nil0-7, or -10, or some such. It's all smoke. Probably 18 × 70 mm, slow burning fuel rich R-candy, and no nozzle. But I'd need to be L2 certified, and limited to Tripoli research launches.

I haven't really developed it, because there doesn't seem to be any point.

I guess I don’t understand. This is exactly why some people do research. Why is there no point?

 

[jimzcatz]

You can give your motors away at Research launches as a demo/team project.

 

[Bruce]

I'd like to fly a thrustless Nil0-7, or -10, or some such. It's all smoke. Probably 18 × 70 mm

I've never tried this and it doesn't sound perfectly safe, but I read in a rocket magazine that some people fill the nozzles of black powder booster motors (maybe C6-0s?) with epoxy. Then they insert them into a cluster rocket with the glued nozzles facing up and light the other end for thrustless smoke...

 

[jderimig]

I forgot to say you can always sell DIY composite motors out of the trunk of your car or truck. at launches . I've seen that done too.

You can?