How to find a rocket that has landed in a canal?

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ksaves2 said:
Could they tell it was fincan down trailing the harness or open tube end down, fincan aft? Or was it tumbling? Man, it's looking like it went for a swim.
Kurt
Click to expand...
The one person who says he saw the 800' ejection says the tail section was going almost straight down with the fins pointing downward, he recalls seeing the coupler but not the drogue. The shock cord was "flapping behind" the rocket. "I saw the event and the separation, but noticed that the aft section was still descending without a chute and was moving fast (but not totally ballistic like I have seen some." Others have the rocket on the exact same descent line, which matches the predicted GPS track, except they saw the descent line as more vertical than as shown on the graph in post 19.
 
Do you happen to know anyone with a drone that could fly over? If the canal isn't too muddy, you should be able to spot it from the air. Also, if it didn't land in the canal, you might be able to spot it in the grass.

Sorry to hear of your loss. I lost a giant scale, 50cc gas airplane in a forest once. The hurt on the pocketbook was stomach-turning, not to mention time and effort. I hope you find it, sooner rather than later.
 
Tyler P said:
Do you happen to know anyone with a drone that could fly over? If the canal isn't too muddy, you should be able to spot it from the air. Also, if it didn't land in the canal, you might be able to spot it in the grass.

Sorry to hear of your loss. I lost a giant scale, 50cc gas airplane in a forest once. The hurt on the pocketbook was stomach-turning, not to mention time and effort. I hope you find it, sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...
Sorry about your airplane, I know the feeling. Several have suggested a drone but we don't have one available, we do have a boat, a high power underwater flashlight, a grappling hook on a long line, a telescoping pole with a hook on the end, and snorkeling gear. Are we forgetting anything?
 
billdz said:
Sorry about your airplane, I know the feeling. Several have suggested a drone but we don't have one available, we do have a boat, a high power underwater flashlight, a grappling hook on a long line, a telescoping pole with a hook on the end, and snorkeling gear. Are we forgetting anything?
Click to expand...

Well, hopefully that'll do the trick! If you don't find it, at least no one can say you didn't try!
 
If that booster hit the canal... 100% its under, and will be hard to find. I've flown at Bong in WI for 20+ years and I have been in some nasty water of the years.

Good luck with search!
 
I went back today, could not find it. By all accounts it is in the canal. If so, this will be a tough find, the water is murky. I brought a grappling hook on a rope, a 20' telescoping tube, a net, an inflatable boat, snorkeling gear, and an underwater flashlight. But nothing I brought was effective for searching the water. The canal is only 25' wide and 4' deep (soft mud on bottom) but I could not figure out a way to get a view of the bottom. First I used the grappling hook and the pole and dragged the bottom, this was difficult due to the high banks, and it seemed impossible to cover most of the entire suspected landing area. Next tried the boat and used the net to drag the bottom, again hard to cover much ground. Another rocketeer planned to join me but he got tied up at work, and I was very reluctant to try snorkeling, who knows what kinds of snakes and gators may be in there. I decided to give it a go but stopped after a few minutes, because I just was not seeing much, even with the underwater flashlight. The owner of the property stopped by and said sometimes the canal has no water, so there still may be a chance to find it someday. Any other ideas?
 
Bill

Did the fin can have any metal fasteners or quick links on it ?
I would try to borrow a waterproof metal detector or use a metal
detector waterproofed with a trash bag .

While sitting in the inflatable with the metal detector have 2
helpers ( one on each side of the canal ) with ropes attached to the inflatable.
Keep the metal detector in the water as the helpers pull you back and forth
across the canal. After each pass have the helpers take 1 step sideways for the next pass.

If the metal detector has a hit use a fishing dip net on a pole to scoop around where
the hit was indicated

Tyler

A 50cc RC airplane in a forest ? Boy that sucks Did you try smelling the air for the smell
of glow fuel ? Usually a crash in a tree would release some fuel. Or a infrared scope
right at sunset do detect the heat from the metal engine

I love the water but I would take brier thickets and "devil's walking sticks" over alligators
anytime !

Hope you find the fin section !

Bobby " bird dog " Hamill
 
Thanks Bobby, that's an interesting idea, did you think yourself or it or have you seen it done? I've never used a metal detector, I'd be worried about a trash bag, one hole and the metal detector is toast. The rocket does have metal quik links and the coupler has all threads rods, washers and wing nuts, plus the altimeters and connecting wire.
 
How about a fish finder (sonar) those units are made to go underwater. You might see an anominally on the screen indicating a rocket location.
 
Andrew_ASC said:
How about a fish finder (sonar) those units are made to go underwater. You might see an anominally on the screen indicating a rocket location.
Click to expand...
I had thought of a fishfinder but was told it would not work in a shallow canal. Any fishermen out there who can comment?
 
I haven't used one since the rotating neon bulb units of the mid-60's early 70's. I would bet that perhaps a modern unit with a screen might be able to pick up something since you'd not be running a motor and it's only 4 feet. Problem would be trying to find one to borrow. I would think if you swish a pole of some kind back and forth from above in a small boat you might be able to "feel" the knock of the rocket tube on the pole and have an idea where to try the hook. Push comes to shove, if the "knock" seems promising, dive down quick and investigate. Probably go back and forth 90 degrees from where that lost known position was received from. I betch'a that's were it is. Kurt
 
ksaves2 said:
I would think if you swish a pole of some kind back and forth from above in a small boat you might be able to "feel" the knock of the rocket tube on the pole and have an idea where to try the hook.
Click to expand...
You might be surprised be how little ground gets covered by an hour of such swishing.
 
Not surprised at all. It could even have sunken into the soft mud.
 
 
bobby_hamill said:
Bill

Have never used it but thought of it my self

Bill here is another option and you can practice on your casting
30 bucks and a 255 pull strength !

https://www.walmart.com/ip/FISHING-MAGNET-255-lb-Magnetic-Pull-Neodymium-Rare-Earth-Magnets-Treasure-Hunt/646039885?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=11868&adid=22222222222159867100&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=c&wl3=75385336336523&wl4=pla-4578984908267459&wl5=&wl6=&wl7=& wl10=Walmart&wl12=646039885_10000012238&wl14=rair earth fishing magnet&veh=sem&msclkid=7cb4a8d6318e1a6ac11ef36f1ab1f4ae

Will probably ruin the electronics but the water has already done that
Click to expand...

The electronics are trash by now. Would be hoping to snag a quick link with a magnet but I don't believe it's known if there was one exposed on the harness out in the open. I think Bill said that no drogue was seen but a segment of the
harness was whipping behind the airframe with the fincan down. If there was a drogue out at the end of a good length of harness, could have drifted over the canal (which he says is unlikely) and if it went in the drink, I would think the drogue
would have ended up on the bank and we wouldn't be having this discussion. I thought it was said there was a short segment of harness seen. Probably no quick link on it? If there was, I'd get one person to sling the magnet and one to sweep
with a pole! Might as well try both!

If it's fiberglass fins/airframe it should be very salvageable and of course would be nice to get the motor casing/retainer back. Cripes the fincan hits the water and then the soft mud, I'm surprised it didn't "stick" the landing :)

Ok I found it:
Forgot to connect a quicklink on a long necked rocket. Apogee blew the upper bay off and the
rocket body started down fincan up/open end down. The camera was on the sustainer end. Can see the drogue come out of the chute protector and enough drag was generated for the fincan to flop down for the high speed ride to the ground. Frame by frame shows the main out on the upper bay and it just about beat the sustainer to terra firma. No one saw the upper bay until the main deployed. This is a cardboard rocket and nothing zippered. There was a slight bend in the sustainer I did a two ounce glass wrap and the rocket still flies. If you watch to close to the end, you can catch the Rocketman chute on the upper bay. Again I was amazed it
didn't zipper. Must have been tumbling.

Here's what happens with distressed cardboard:
This time camera was on the upper bay looking down. When the main blew it stripped the cardboard tube off the ebay so the fully opened main gave this small 4 inch ebay the softest
landing ever. The camera fluttered down on the stripped cardboard and hence had a relatively soft landing and survived. Frame by frame caught shots of the sustainer going in and the old broken harness wrapping around the rocket body. Caught quite a few shots of the sustainer as the camera was fluttering around randomly and one shot was seen of the main chute looking up. Actually the fincan is solid and waiting for a rebuild!
Kurt
 
Last edited:
20171003_082608.jpg Congratulations !!!!!
How many hours was that search.......... My wife and I and my son plus sever others put in like 20 man hours berfore we found his V2 LVL 1 attempt model. I have never had soooo much time invested in a search before.

The tall grass at Bong Recreation area proved to be an incredible obstacle.
 
Glasspack said:
View attachment 363556 Congratulations !!!!!
How many hours was that search.......... My wife and I and my son plus sever others put in like 20 man hours berfore we found his V2 LVL 1 attempt model. I have never had soooo much time invested in a search before.

The tall grass at Bong Recreation area proved to be an incredible obstacle.
Click to expand...

If I’m not mistaken, that’s not the OP & his rocket is still in a canal in Florida.
 
My rocket is still in the canal. Any thoughts on whether a fishfinder would find the rocket in the water?
 
Bill probably not but a good water proof metal detector should help if you had an aluminum motor case. Or did you use a DMS motor?
 
tomsteve said:
im wondering if one of them lanscaping rakes would snag the SC. would cover a lot of ground rather quicklike
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Razor-Back-36-in-Aluminum-Landscape-Rake-2916500/204476252

could get a rope on both ends of it and have someone on each side of the canal. set it in, pull it across, then lift up and pull it back.repeat
Click to expand...

The pictures that Bill posted of the canal in the beginning show it's pretty wide. I think the rake trick would be tough to pull off with the steep bank. I have no experience with modern fish finders but if they show the bottom pretty well and
perhaps penetrate the mud a bit it might be helpful. If there is a lot of garbage in the canal might be harder to find in the clutter. The problem is finding someone with a portable unit he could borrow to do a survey. Kurt (sorry for the hijack)
 
The canal is 25' wide and 3-4' deep. There's not much garbage in the canal, based on the swishing around with the net. Latest brainstorm from the locals is to bring a 50' telescoping pole with a 5'-10' cross bar at the bottom. In theory, that would enable us to drag the entire bottom fairly quickly without going into the water.
 
Well, looking for a needle in a haystack of needles comes to mind if it is in that canal because it looks like A LOT of area to sweep with a pole! I'm going to suggest bringing a drone (or two or more) back to the search party. If it's not in the canal a drone will certainly cover a lot of area fast. If it is, you might get a glimpse of something doing a fly by. In any case it would be a lot more fun than dragging a pole in water eh! Anyways, just a suggestion. Hope you find it!
 
Ouch, that is a search and recover job I am not envious of. Good luck to you in your efforts!

I got to say Biildz, you do run across odd anomalies/issues
 
Using a fish-finder would work but the depth will work against you badly. You'd want to use one that has DI (down imaging) so that you can get details about whats below you *but* you also need to check the cone size of the transponder for DI. From memory, the cone angle is something like 20 degrees and so at 4 foot depth, your image will only be maybe a foot wide. You can try a system with SI (side imaging) but I think the minimum depth for SI to work is 5 or 7 foot or so and they're more expensive. Again, there is the cone to content with so you'd have to make 2 passes, one from either side of the canal.

I think a jon boat with a garden rake on either side of the boat would be more effective and faster. It'd snag anything thats down there like the shock cord.
 

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